Obliterator OP

[Trolleur_Durden]

Playing as the Isshos, I just finished my first conquest victory ever, and there is one word to describe it : Obliterator. I have the feeling that those are insanely overpowered. Specifically, what I feel is broken is the fact that the citadel actually only protects half of a star system, combined with the fact that you can have more than one obliterator at a time.

In my playthrough, I was able to very easily "snipe" all my opponent's starting systems, by firing at the same time and from the same origin two Obliterators simultanely. Doing that, the two rockets overlap, and once they reach the target, the first one destroys the citadel and the second one wipe out the system.

I simply don't see any kind of efficient counter against that. Am I missing something ?

[Sizzlor]

I believe there is a generic system shield upgrade in the citidel branch. Acording to its description it will block a shot and be destroyed. I imagine it stacks with the citidel. I also believe there is a cap on behemoths creating a senario where if you build too many obliterators you leave yourself open to other obliterators. From what I have heard behemoths are easily swarmed. Best I can do is a theoretical defense.

Would you happen to know if an obliterator destroys the fleets in orbit around the system as well?

[Sublustris]

You can't destroy Citadel, it always protects the system. You are destroying shield improvement, which means there was no citadel at all.
Sorry, but your argument is invalid.

[Sublustris]

Originally posted by Sizzlor:

Would you happen to know if an obliterator destroys the fleets in orbit around the system as well?

Yes, it does

[Trolleur_Durden]

I also thought that a Citadel always protects a system, but that's actually not the case, a Citadel only acts as a System shield, protecting half of it's improvements and population against an Obliterator shot while being destroyed in the process. Here are two screens illustrating this :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/110745516811264000/475629642611425280/unknown.png

In this screen, the obliterator shot you can see near the Riftborn starting system is actually a "double shot", composed of two obliterator shots fired at the same moment and overlapping.

Next turn :

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/110745516811264000/475630068237074437/unknown.png

The two Obliterator events pop up you can see on the right are saying, consecutively : half of the star system was destroyed, then all of the star system was destroyed.

So, [0xFB] Sublustris : sorry but your counter-argument is invalid :P

[Aidanya]

For me the problem lies in that you can shoot at any system but you have to build the defenses on EVERY system.

Even when a shot gets blocked and you lose half of everything this is a major loss.

I think it would be better it worked similar to raze system option when you conquer a system through ground battle (really good improvement btw).
You lose control over it but planets do not get destroyed. And you have a timer to resettle the planet and get some of your stuff back. That way the attacking player wants to move into the system to stop the enemy from reclaiming it. creating a focuspoint for the war.

[Mulzaro]

I just think the shield protecting only half the assets is way too low. Also does the system get any notification that a huge missile is coming their way?

[Sublustris]

Mate, I was beta-testing this DLC, I'm well aware how it works. You are mistaken, on your screenshot there is no Citadel, just a system shield.

Compare it to mine:
https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/984485121699912426/0B9294D8A4141A0D78C35B025F728E0F1EE5FE22/

See that symbol to the left of crown symbol of capital? That's the citadel symbol, the one that is absent on the system you show.

Citadel provides permanent 50% shield to the system. System shield improvement also provides 50% shield, but this improvement will be destroyed on impact. System protected by both citadel and shield improvement is invulnarable (100%) to one obliterator shot. You can destroy shield protected system with two shots. You can't destroy citadel-protected system no matter how many shots you make, period.

[Sublustris]

Notice also, how fully protected system has a much stronger, more opaque and shiny shield effect to differ two on glance.

[Mulzaro]

Ah so protection bonuses stack, now it makes way more sense.

[Trolleur_Durden]

It definitely makes much more sense this way, thanks for your clarification.

Just to be sure, what happens when a system is "double shot" while having both Citadel and Shield improvement ? Does the first shot only destroy the Shield and the second one half of the system ? Because if it's so, it's still insanely powerful, especially on a starting system that tends to concentrate a lot of unique improvements and wonders.

[Aidanya]

Btw do citadel behemoths still count towards the behemoth limit after they landed?

If so that would mean you could only effectivly shield (or half effectivly as you still lose half your stuff) as many systems as your behemoth limit? assuming the enemy can doubleshot you.

Because i usually have way more systems than i can have behemoths.

[Sublustris]

Yes, it works in a way you guessed. What whould be point of obliterator, if it whouldn't be capable of doing that? It's an end-game weapon, empire that build it already should be close to victory.
If you nerf it any further, it might not be viable at all, you'll remove all the fun they give.

It's like a nuclear weapon equivalent in Civilization, it gives fear of mutual destruction.

Also compare it to a fleet with planet crackers, capable to come to your capital system and destroy all your planets in just a five-turn charge. And no shield will save you from that.

[Sublustris]

Originally posted by Aidanya:

Btw do citadel behemoths still count towards the behemoth limit after they landed?

If so that would mean you could only effectivly shield (or half effectivly as you still lose half your stuff) as many systems as your behemoth limit? assuming the enemy can doubleshot you.

Because i usually have way more systems than i can have behemoths.

They count. But there's a Behemoth C3 center system improvement, that increases limit at the cost of doubling Behemoth upkeep. So you can build citadels and shields on all your systems, but it will be very costly for you to have any other kinds of Behemoths due to increased upkeep.

[Mulzaro]

One thing that sligthly bothers me is the fact that the obliterator can shoot at systems you are not at war with. Atleast when you are at cold war. Not sure about peace or alliance.

[Aidanya]

Originally posted by 0xFB Sublustris:

Originally posted by Aidanya:

Btw do citadel behemoths still count towards the behemoth limit after they landed?

If so that would mean you could only effectivly shield (or half effectivly as you still lose half your stuff) as many systems as your behemoth limit? assuming the enemy can doubleshot you.

Because i usually have way more systems than i can have behemoths.

They count. But there's a Behemoth C3 center system improvement, that increases limit at the cost of doubling Behemoth upkeep. So you can build citadels and shields on all your systems, but it will be very costly for you to have any other kinds of Behemoths due to increased upkeep.

So landed behemoths have no more upkeep?
That would actually be a good comprimise. Allowing you to have many shield but the high upkeep would make the use of other behemoths nearly impossible.