How do you keep up as the Unfallen?

[Dead Planets and Live TV]

I've only been playing for around a week, and the Unfallen seemed like a faction with a neat gimmick, so I tried picking them up in my third playthrough. So far, I feel like I'm being completely outpaced, and I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do about it.

Between the 40 turns(!?) it takes to spread vines to a new system, and the ludicrous four-figure cost to build even a single Vine-class ship with no modules to cut that time, how are the Unfallen supposed to keep up with other factions at all?

I know that stacking vineships cuts the cost, but they take so long to produce that I find myself getting boxed in before I'm able to meaningfully expand anywhere.

I've tried following those first-30-turns guides, and other advice around the web, but all of it relies on what seem to be outdated numbers (like the vines taking 20 turns instead of 40, and vineships taking either 200 or 400 industry to produce instead of around two thousand).

I can't really follow why the numbers are THAT different. Was their speed a giant problem before? Are they even still playable now that they're covered in molasses? If so, how do you play them?

[utilityguy]

If those numbers are not a result of the game speed setting being different(say 20 turns on fast but 40 on normal) then idk.

Recently I've found out that if the Unfallen conquer/captures a system durring a way and that system is adjecent/in-range of a vined system, that captured system will be instantly connected to the other system without the need of a vine ship.

But I still haven't yet propperly figured out the survival strategy in Endless space 2, so I don't know what I can tell you on dealing with opponents swooping in with an outpost on a system you are currently vining... besides blockading that system. But if that's the case, then you might aswell have already dropped everything else on your capital planet and focus instead on growing out thirds up the wazzu to maybe survive the ensuing lightning war that'll come in ten-twenty turns from that blockade.

Let's say you have a bad start with a two out of three of your home system planets being Gas Giants and there's more than two hyper lanes stemming out from the home system. I'd take a blind guess by sending out the explorer ship down one of the lanes and if the system it finds is a dud or it is still traveling down the hyper lane by turn one, I'd send the vine ship down the other hyperlane in hopes of starting a vine a soon as possible.

After that, idk, maybe hope the AI colony ship will not make a B-line for the best possible system in your quadrant before you even get to discover it.

[utilityguy]

Checking back after doing some shenanigans

Aparently the Unfallen have been nerfed to the point where they have not only fallen from being one of (if not the) strongest factions to play as, but crashed into the planet's crust to be one of the weaker(if not weakest) factions to play as due to a high dependency on how optimal your starting location is and where the first batch of pirates spawn. Because:

Pirates will eas--you know this already, nevermind that.

This guy has a post hissho update guide to the Unfallen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jcgTFJyhR1E
(also has an unfallen video taking place right after the vualter update)

Basically, the guy in the outdated you were presumably referencing has the right idea in stripping the Vineship of all of its stuffs before you try to build it, because that will save a lot of industry(time) to build the ship and upgrading the third into a propper vineship only costs about 90 or so dust.

Anyways, the guy in the video posted in this post will better explain to you what you should be doing in the early turns.

[CyPunk]

Not sure I have any good advice, but will start writing and see what comes out.
Also new to game and played the Unfallen as my third faction.
I however, had apparently made the proper sacrifice to the RNG gods, and this did indeed make the Unfallen seem almost OP. I had a starting system with 3 colonizable planets, 2 minor civs very near, and a few other systems with 2 immediately colonizable planets each down both the 2 starlanes exiting my starting system. Strategics were a bit sparse, but plenty of Jadonx (? spelling) for Level 2 modernization giving +60 industry. Make sure your start does have at least two exits.

So what here is useful: I did indeed build empty vine ships and upgrade with money. After a few turns exploring my hero went to the starting planet, focused his points on food buffs. Getting the Unfallen population snowballing is key, and not that hard with a little push; they also start with a food tech and I built that improvment first while other techs got online (if your start has your science below 30 maybe hit the usual cerebral reality first). I put a second vine ship out very early, 2nd thing I built iir; yes it is a sacrifice but worth it. Aside from the first typical techs for public-private partnerships and xeno-industry focus on colonization techs you may need. Indeed, much like the Vodyani, even if you do not have tons of starting planets you cannot immediately colonize, you can do a good game if they are the right type of planets. Steppes and Savannah and Ash are nice: I love steppes so I have a reason to research that tech early: the better probes help tons and esp. discovering populations in a curiosity is great for Unfallen, as you can get a tech that gives you a happeniness boost for every population type in a system.

Even if your luxury resource is not as good as mine, rush to 2nd level modernization: once you get one system's population explosion you will need the spaceport. This is why ash is nice: sends you down that tree - plus the tech that gives you acces to the market to sell any unneeded luxeries so you can upgrade vineships.

With even 2 vine ships you can often beat another faction in a race for a system, and in fact I found being aggressive like that is nice, since then you get their colony.

I also did divert from vining systems to vining special nodes (asteroids, blackholes, etc.). Imo worth it (of course you need free movement tech, thus again why I actually like Savannah, is makes you prioritize that tech). I also took a risk and vined a system with huge planets but nothing special. By turn 50 was paying off: colonized the system (you do not need to colonize what you vine right away) as I needed huge planets to dump surplus population. Also try to vine a system you do not plan on taking but which another faction will take: gives a good pressure trend, which there is also a mission for.

After playing militarist style with other factions, it took some willpower but do use the "force peace" early then stay out of their systems (or at least just pick one "enemy"). I used the law that brings down diplomatic costs, also the one that exchanges happiness per person for science, and mix in the happiness per peace and ally later. Early on also used the scientist law to reduce improvement costs 20%. Unlike many unhappy factions Unfallen can be happy even early game and easy to forget but the happy people bonuses add up lots.

Well in short: maximize your laws since you are a democracy; maximize food and grow your population fast as possible; encourage immigration and minority population growth; force peace; don't save your money spend it to upgrade empty vine ships; sell everything you do not need; modernize your systems asap; when you can pause vining for immediate needs, plan ahead and vine some things that may payoff in 20 or 50 turns.

But yes, in the end, try for a moderately decent starting system.

[Mulzaro]

The Unfallen could always have a stronger starting system than other factions. This would fix atleast some issues. I still think building vines should have an "industry" cost that increases by every system you own. This would allow the vineships to build the first vines alot faster and then later make building vines in one turn harder.

Moonbear did it like this in his mod (Enhanced space) but I really think Amplitude should make it to the core game with a "vining cost" feature or something like that.

Also I had no idea retrofitting empty vineships is that cheap. Thanks for the tip.

[Dead Planets and Live TV]

Thank you all for the advice!

[Dead Planets and Live TV]

Oh. Yeah, no, I couldn't be more done with this faction.

I just ended my max player AI playthrough midway through when my former alliance members closed their borders and destroyed 100+ turns worth of vines, losing me several systems and heroes, in a literal instant.

This after their agressively colonizing my space (during the alliance) while I was powerless to do anything about it.

Because slow Unfallen.

Holy cannoli, what a garbage faction.

[peddroelm]

si vis pacem para bellum !

Mockingly cursed with pacifist main population type this is the most warfare obligated main faction in all endless space 2. (reading their lore you'd think perhaps cravers or hissio but its the unfallen) .There is NO going around with those guys - no sneaking colony ships past a neighbor , no remote minor assimilation and use it as a beachhead for spamming colony ships . In the most pure civ like faction - THE ONLY WAY TO GROW IS TROUGH NEIGHBORS and pirate hubs .. Vining an unoccupied system can take as long as 20 turns .. invading an enemy systems vines it instantly (after the invasion is won) .. Their 50 population bonus allows faster OWNERSHIP conversion of INVADED SYSTEM .. Welcome to the most lore hypocritical faction of endless space 2 !

And this is how you 'keep up' as the unfallen .

youtube playlist (1.3.3 unfallen lets play): https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLFWnpbmrXToq_P_xVBpR2bToXtFgjUe6n

[Sizzlor]

The unfallen are a diplomacy based faction. Diplomacy in this game is really nuanced, but if your not using it right your probably going to lose.

As for how you keep up its simple. The unfallen are a tall faction. Their home system gets all the boosts from special nodes. Once your done building the basic infastructure you grab the techs to fill out your home system then you start spamming ships. Vine ships and millitary ships as many as you can afford. Millitary might is important or the other factions are going to think your weak and walk all over you.

The Unfallen act morel the galaxy police.

My advice, build way more ships and learn diplomacy. The factions have likes and dis likes.

[Metadragon]

How? By playing as them in a spiral arm galaxy and starting bear the center so you can expand at your leisure within reason since non-lane travel is a thing eventually.

They baffle me too. Went from Vaulters to them and its two different games completely. Vaulters are all about sprinting for good 4-5 planet systems or uniques wherever they are and then linking your far flung empire with portals. I had a Vaulter game where I occupied the last system in 4 arms of the 8 arm galaxy which were all nice and there were entire empires between my systems and yet the portal made defending a turtling even then easy. Unfallen are about about slow yet almost inexorable growth. And war which is unfortubste since they are pacfists at the start. I fought more as Unfallen then Cravers in terms of amount of battles fought.

Next Vaulters game Im gonna try a Roleplay game where I only occupy systems not connected by lanes or wormholes except the initial home system. Next Unfallen game? Idk I just dont have the knowledge set to play them effectively.