Long Range BEST Range?

[DjohDjeen]

I need help understanding the Range choices in the ship battles...

Seems to me everytime I select a SHORT range tactics card and my opponent choses a LONG range one, the battle starts at LONG range... Most of the time I lose my entire fleet before we even get to MEDIUM range or even less SHORT range...

So I make a fleet that has ONLY SHORT range weapons, figuring it's the best way to counter an ennemy fleet that is built for LONG range, yet I lose EVERY time no matter what.

How come LONG range selection trumps SHORT range? Should I bother making short range fleets? It seems like LONG range missile boat fleets win the day every single time...

I play PvP mostly, tried to figure it out with my buddy but I can't make any sense of it...

HELP if you can please. Am a bit confused over this.

[Star Paladin]

Depending on the row you place your ships on, your ships will stay at that range, UNLESS the enemy ships on the other side of that row are told to go closer.

So, if you put you ships at a long range row; and the enemy on the other end is placed on a long range row, you will both stay at long range all 3 rounds of combat. But if the enemy was placed at a close range row, he will close on you each round, and be at medium range at round 2, and is nose to nose with you in round 3.

[Sloan]

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/blogs/497-horatio-update-focus-on-the-space-battle#post-927
Use other card Battle Tactics

[mrmike_49]

I always maximize long range weapons and defense for exactly that reason, then select a long range tactic like "Barrage Fire"

[Fiddler]

Flak is supposed to shred missiles, or at least it used to. Honestly, I don't even bother with kinetic weapons unless I'm playing Cravers because their heros have kinetic bonuses.

[s†. Chris†opher]

I still use kinetic weapons on my protectors and coordinators for the flak, since most of the time their role is purely defensive. (dependant on the chasis).

If you're getting outranged it could also be a case of your flotilla set up as ship on different flotillas engage at different times/rounds.

[DjohDjeen]

To be clear here, I select SHORT range and want to start at short range. Somehow it never does, unless my opponent also did chose it.

It seems like am never the one having priority of selection. If my opponent selects LONG range, then, we start at long range and I get utterly destroyed.

Why would nayone try to make a short range build then?

Should all ships be LONG range only and never bother using any short range tactics cards?

[Star Paladin]

Ya, well you can't, in this game, or real life. You have to close in on your enemy/prey first to do melee. I good tank ship or two in the mix, and you'll make it to close range by round 3 at the latest, and devistate them.

You can also see what the enemy cards have been used in the past, and try to pick a card that will get you up close fast if possible.

[DjohDjeen]

Originally posted by Star Paladin:

Ya, well you can't, in this game, or real life. You have to close in on your enemy/prey first to do melee. I good tank ship or two in the mix, and you'll make it to close range by round 3 at the latest, and devistate them.

You can also see what the enemy cards have been used in the past, and try to pick a card that will get you up close fast if possible.

Real life? I can't sneak up on people in real life? .... Yahhh, ok...

Mostly getting opinions here, I was hoping someone would have actual knowledge of how it works.

Is there a priority factor? What makes my choice of tactics get ignored to the favor of my opponent? Is it a hero in the fleet? Higher technology researched? Higher score?

There has to be some logic to this. I appreciate all the inputs, but mostly am still not understanding how this works actually.

The whole "you'll get there eventually" line of thinking can't be right, if it was no one would ever use any short range weapons...

[Frogsquadron]

See also these balance changes that were brought with a recent patch:
https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space-2/blogs/609-lost-symphony-untold-tales-patch-1-2-18

[DjohDjeen]

I appreciate devs chiming in, but I guess if they don't know the answer then no one ever will...

Long range it is from now on... 100% of the time...

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

I appreciate devs chiming in, but I guess if they don't know the answer then no one ever will...

Long range it is from now on... 100% of the time...

Sigh.

The answer has been provided, multiple times. You're just ignoring it because you don't like it.

Every combat starts at long range.

In following rounds, depending on cards chosen, the combatants will either stay at long range, or close in. You can see which path your ships will take if you select the "advanced" option before combat start.

Your strategy choices are NOT being ignored. Let me repeat that. Your cards are NOT being ignored. Every combat starts at long range. If you choose long range, and your opponent chooses short range, the combat also starts at long range.

If you want to close in, you can choose cards and equip your ships to have good long-range defenses. Or if that's too problematic, go for long range.

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

Real life? I can't sneak up on people in real life? .... Yahhh, ok...

Try it. I'll gather a dozen friends, we'll stand in 100-kilometer-wide open field, and you try to sneak up on us.

Space is made of space. You can't "sneak up" to close range without some kind of "stealth" tech that would make you completely invisible to the enemy until you're on top of them. At which point you've already won anyway, so the combat can be just skipped, insta-win. The tech in ES doesn't seem to offer such a stealth capability.

Most importantly, it's a fictional universe. If devs wanted to allow for mid-range or close-range combat start, there's a hundred rationalizations for why it works that way. They haven't, so I can make a hundred rationalizations why it works this way. But both choices have valid rationalizations, and we don't really get to argue "realism" in a game with spaceships, FTL, intelligent trees, and extradimensional beings. We can argue internal consistency, but you didn't present any complaints aside from "me not likey".

Finally, your choices are NOT being ignored. That's how combat currently works. If you provide intelligent feedback instead of having childish tantrums, I'm sure the devs will be glad to hear it.

[s†. Chris†opher]

OP has played the game for 461 hours and still hasn't figured out the BASIC combat mechanics... Clearly the issue is something else...

[DjohDjeen]

Originally posted by Kris:

OP has played the game for 461 hours and still hasn't figured out the BASIC combat mechanics... Clearly the issue is something else...

Go make me a sandwich... Be quiet...

[DjohDjeen]

Originally posted by piccolo255:

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

I appreciate devs chiming in, but I guess if they don't know the answer then no one ever will...

Long range it is from now on... 100% of the time...

Sigh.

The answer has been provided, multiple times. You're just ignoring it because you don't like it.

Every combat starts at long range.

In following rounds, depending on cards chosen, the combatants will either stay at long range, or close in. You can see which path your ships will take if you select the "advanced" option before combat start.

Your strategy choices are NOT being ignored. Let me repeat that. Your cards are NOT being ignored. Every combat starts at long range. If you choose long range, and your opponent chooses short range, the combat also starts at long range.

If you want to close in, you can choose cards and equip your ships to have good long-range defenses. Or if that's too problematic, go for long range.

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

Real life? I can't sneak up on people in real life? .... Yahhh, ok...

Try it. I'll gather a dozen friends, we'll stand in 100-kilometer-wide open field, and you try to sneak up on us.

Space is made of space. You can't "sneak up" to close range without some kind of "stealth" tech that would make you completely invisible to the enemy until you're on top of them. At which point you've already won anyway, so the combat can be just skipped, insta-win. The tech in ES doesn't seem to offer such a stealth capability.

Most importantly, it's a fictional universe. If devs wanted to allow for mid-range or close-range combat start, there's a hundred rationalizations for why it works that way. They haven't, so I can make a hundred rationalizations why it works this way. But both choices have valid rationalizations, and we don't really get to argue "realism" in a game with spaceships, FTL, intelligent trees, and extradimensional beings. We can argue internal consistency, but you didn't present any complaints aside from "me not likey".

Finally, your choices are NOT being ignored. That's how combat currently works. If you provide intelligent feedback instead of having childish tantrums, I'm sure the devs will be glad to hear it.

Most of what you wrote is WRONG...

Some lanes DO START at close range EVEN if the opponent selects LONG...

But it's ok, you seem to ba an angru little know it all...

You too can go make me a sandwich, maybe change your tampon?

[piccolo255]

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

Most of what you wrote is WRONG...

Some lanes DO START at close range EVEN if the opponent selects LONG...

Really? I'm not aware of those but, uh, then what's the problem? Choose those cards and place your ships in those lanes. It seems to solve your problem, completely.

Originally posted by Joejean (Qc):

You too can go make me a sandwich, maybe change your tampon?

Ow, such rapier wit. Your deft denigrations douse me in dreadful despair, sir.