Get rid of unwanted Heroes?

[HouseLyrander]

I keep getting forced to take in worthless Heroes I don't want from the Academy. Is there a way to get rid of the freeloaders? Or at least get prevent them from being foisted on me?

[HouseLyrander]

Originally posted by aMEIzing:

I think not. U simply have to choose from the best of 3. I think you can dismiss them afterwards though.

How do I dismiss them then?

[HouseLyrander]

If there is a way to dismiss Heroes, I'm not seeing it

[Wenchbane]

This is needed desperately, if you control the academy and have the system improvment by turn 150~ you'll have several heros all around level 7-8 which can tank your economy.

Skilling them in the -25/-50% upkeep doesn't really help because they aren't helping your economy or fleets.

There are several features missing basic functionality like dismissing your unwanted heroes to effectively purging your unwanted pop.

[Tekel1959]

Heros only cost dust if they are assigned to a fleet or system. If you unassign, the cost of that fleet or system will be reduced.

You can look at Dust for any system and see how much is spent on an assigned Hero.

You can look at the Fleet list and see which fleets have Heros, and how much the fleet upkeep is. The Hero portion of fleet upkeep is not specifically broken out that I can find, but you can clearly see the upkeep difference when you assign/unassign a hero.

I really can not imagine a hero NOT able to pay their keep to either a fleet or system either. If things get THAT tight, it probably was not the hero choices that caused it...

Even if the per turn is "negative" for a few turns, accelerated growth is eventually worth the cost. Heck even some system upgrades dont "pay" until a certain threshold is reached, and sometimes never, but more FISI is faster growth, and that has value too... Lots of intangibles need to be counted as a return on your dust invenstment in a hero.

[HouseLyrander]

Originally posted by Tekel1959:

Heros only cost dust if they are assigned to a fleet or system. If you unassign, the cost of that fleet or system will be reduced.

You can look at Dust for any system and see how much is spent on an assigned Hero.

You can look at the Fleet list and see which fleets have Heros, and how much the fleet upkeep is. The Hero portion of fleet upkeep is not specifically broken out that I can find, but you can clearly see the upkeep difference when you assign/unassign a hero.

I really can not imagine a hero NOT able to pay their keep to either a fleet or system either. If things get THAT tight, it probably was not the hero choices that caused it...

Even if the per turn is "negative" for a few turns, accelerated growth is eventually worth the cost. Heck even some system upgrades dont "pay" until a certain threshold is reached, and sometimes never, but more FISI is faster growth, and that has value too... Lots of intangibles need to be counted as a return on your dust invenstment in a hero.

If you aren't expanding hardcore then it's a very realy possibility that you'll have more Heroes than you can reasonably assign to systems. What's more while they may be indirectly helping your economy, they're still directly hurting it. They're also liable to mess up your senate by edging out Heroes you like and possibly even built to be senators as representatives of a Party. And if they're simply left unassigned then trying to hit End Turn suddenly becomes a huge chore of having to click away alerts for each of them. I can make those alerts not actively pop up but that means alerts for Heroes I care about won't show up either and I STILL can't End Turn without those alerts stopping you. It's just a huge pain that we know shouldn't have to deal with because it was handled so much better in Legend.

[Wenchbane]

Originally posted by Tekel1959:

Heros only cost dust if they are assigned to a fleet or system. If you unassign, the cost of that fleet or system will be reduced.

You can look at Dust for any system and see how much is spent on an assigned Hero.

You can look at the Fleet list and see which fleets have Heros, and how much the fleet upkeep is. The Hero portion of fleet upkeep is not specifically broken out that I can find, but you can clearly see the upkeep difference when you assign/unassign a hero.

I really can not imagine a hero NOT able to pay their keep to either a fleet or system either. If things get THAT tight, it probably was not the hero choices that caused it...

Even if the per turn is "negative" for a few turns, accelerated growth is eventually worth the cost. Heck even some system upgrades dont "pay" until a certain threshold is reached, and sometimes never, but more FISI is faster growth, and that has value too... Lots of intangibles need to be counted as a return on your dust invenstment in a hero.

Maybe I exaggerated the tanking of economy, what I meant was it's dust pointlessly going to heroes that are not beneffiting your economy and can cost more than they bring in.

Not speaking of fleet admirals but they can and generally do cost quite a lot, the catch though is in expansion disapproval which can easily sting if you try to add more systems than you can hold. It does need basic functionality and it is just mindboggling to why it was left out.

[Tekel1959]

/shrug I would rather keep a hero unassigned and available, as opposed to deleting/removing, they have incredible VALUE.

I do get the annoyance of unassigned popups, and the even greater annoyance of being clueless that prevents you from turning off the spam...

[ElPrezCBF]

Heroes aren't worthless. While you can't choose what heroes spawn, all that appear will either excel in system or fleet management. Their strengths differ in 4 areas: trade and diplomacy, resource management, fleet command and exploration. Some have traits that allow you to gain dust bonuses or indirectly improve FIDSI through approval upgrades.

If you research dust techs early and do not neglect dust improvements, hero upkeep won't put a dent in your treasury, assuming you don't go on a ship building frenzy during peace time.

[HouseLyrander]

Originally posted by Tekel1959:

I do get the annoyance of unassigned popups, and the even greater annoyance of being clueless that prevents you from turning off the spam...

Read!

Originally posted by HouseLyrander:

I can make those alerts not actively pop up but that means alerts for Heroes I care about won't show up either and I STILL can't End Turn without those alerts stopping you.

*****

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

Heroes aren't worthless. While you can't choose what heroes spawn, all that appear will either excel in system or fleet management. Their strengths differ in 4 areas: trade and diplomacy, resource management, fleet command and exploration. Some have traits that allow you to gain dust bonuses or indirectly improve FIDSI through approval upgrades.

If you research dust techs early and do not neglect dust improvements, hero upkeep won't put a dent in your treasury, assuming you don't go on a ship building frenzy during peace time.

The old "My game works fine, I don't see what you care about" arguement. And again, READ!

Originally posted by Wenchbane:

Maybe I exaggerated the tanking of economy, what I meant was it's dust pointlessly going to heroes that are not beneffiting your economy and can cost more than they bring in.

Not speaking of fleet admirals but they can and generally do cost quite a lot, the catch though is in expansion disapproval which can easily sting if you try to add more systems than you can hold. It does need basic functionality and it is just mindboggling to why it was left out.

So yeah, having to expand your Systems and Fleets to meet the needs of your Heroes is both a waste and completely backwards.

And all of this is ignoring the roleplaying issues of playing a xenophobic dictatorship with a filthy xenos on its Senate.

I repeat;

Originally posted by HouseLyrander:

It's just a huge pain that we know shouldn't have to deal with because it was handled so much better in Legend.

[ElPrezCBF]

Op, you're either a kid or lack the humility to hear others' opinions. Read again then rebut if you can. If not, you're just proving my point.

[HouseLyrander]

Originally posted by Ratmannf:

Op, you're either a kid or lack the humility to hear others' opinions. Read again then rebut if you can. If not, you're just proving my point.

I did read and rebut, there's no need to go name calling. And I don't see what "point" you even have for me to prove other than "I'm not having a problem, therefore you shouldn't have a problem". But if you need me to reiterate, fine.

While maintaining a number of Heroes may not lead to bankruptcy it still imposes expansion and fleet building to not only have enough places to put them but to get proper use out of them. Governers and Admirals should be hired to meet the needs of your empire's expansion, not the other way around. And that's ignoring other issues like unwanted Heroes crowding out Heroes built to be Senators crowded out by others you never asked for or the roleplaying issues of being a xenophobic dictatorship with a filthy bug as your representative. Arguing that the problem is with ME and not the game is presumptious and dismissive not just to me, but to everyone else who has this problem and searched for an answer.

[DimensionHatross]

Maybe some way to remove/sell to marketplace might be an ok QoL improvement.

I know you've listed why you don't want them at times, but I still don't truly understand. If you're putting them on a system, you can usually offset their upkeep with dust talents, but on top of that most of the rest of the system buffs usually translate into better economy as well.

If you think of any industry buffs as better ind>dust conversion as well for times when you're in a pinch or have nothing to build, it should be rare that they drain your economy to the point that you need to fire them.

Uneeded system improvements and not getting dust tech when you should would play a bigger part in any financial woes than the cost of heroes.

So sure, add the ability to remove them somehow, but just know that you're gimping yourself by doing so.

[HouseLyrander]

Originally posted by DimensionHatross:

Maybe some way to remove/sell to marketplace might be an ok QoL improvement.

I know you've listed why you don't want them at times, but I still don't truly understand. If you're putting them on a system, you can usually offset their upkeep with dust talents, but on top of that most of the rest of the system buffs usually translate into better economy as well.

If you think of any industry buffs as better ind>dust conversion as well for times when you're in a pinch or have nothing to build, it should be rare that they drain your economy to the point that you need to fire them.

Uneeded system improvements and getting dust tech when you should would play a bigger part in any financial woes than the cost of heroes.

So sure, add the ability to remove them somehow, but just know that you're gimping yourself by doing so.

The problem is that I prefer to build "tall" rather than "wide" to use a Civ term so if the Academy gets too strong I can end up with more Heroes than I can reaonably assign to Systems. My choices then are then to expand (which risks Disapproval and border disputes), build a fleet for them to admiral (which is an unneccesary tax) or just leave them unassigned which the UI hates. There's also the roleplaying factor which I understand I'm probably in the minority on but it's a big part of why I buy Endless games instead of Civ. Lastly, it's the principle of the matter. It feels like such a step backwards from previous Endless games. Thanks for being understanding though. That made my day.

[DimensionHatross]

Yeah, I guess I do get the "build tall" thing. I was wondering about whether it would be worth creating a small empire and maxing them out rather than expanding more and spreading yourself thin but then I always think that for the cost of a colony ship (and some dust/influence), you have a new system that is generating more resources for you and will help you develop your original system faster through tech and buyouts.

Did you ever play Endless Legend? The Cultists faction was based around having only one city and building it up into an absolute beast. Was one of my favorite factions to play. They balanced the solo city style around being able to develop it more fully- without much tech support to do that in ES2 I feel the playstyle gravitates towards owning as much territory as you can defend while keeping everyone happy.

Ah, I just read (aka only just sunk into my dense skull), it does sound like you've played the other Endless games (what did you think of The Cultists?). Well, hopefully some sort of middle ground will be found eventually.

[noobscifi]

How are heroes "pushing out" your senate skilled heroes? Doesn't the initial party leader stay party leader forever?