Any changes to raids?

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Hello! Thank you for taking a moment to check my question.

So I’m playing tanks (literally all of them, but I like Warrior far more in both pvp and pve) and I remember finishing the dungeon farm, getting some nice gear and doing the Arcadion. I think the last boss was some mad chick who wanted to drain my essence (hey, it might be wishful thinking, but I think I remember the story correctly). And while these were my first raids, I couldn’t help but feel they all were robotic in a certain way. Like, in other games the fight consists of some tactics you gotta learn by heart, but the rest is your decision-making, reacting to a situation and choosing a way to counter it and then living with that choice. In FFXIV my gripe was that these raid fights felt more like a… choreographed dance. You had to learn the dancing steps of the fight and polish them until they became automatic.
Is it still this way in the raids, or have they changed them?
Also, is there any news on the FFXIV version of the mythic dungeons? Like, dungeons that come with a new affix, stronger mobs etc-etc that grant better loot.

Thank you in advance!

[Darth_Angeal]

Fights never changed, all of them are a choreography.

We already had "crit-dungeons", but the loot was so bad that replaying them was not worth so the tryhard fans cried for another "bozja, eureka, whatever" for more stupid grind and easy rewards.

The core-challenge is "to hope that others can remember the choreography and having enough endurance on your own to do so". Besides that way too many players abuse bots to bypass that little challenge and to cry about those who might fail.

You would still press 1 2 3, 1 2 3, 1 2 3 all day long as warrior until your burstphase hits where you press 44444. Healers still spam their only attack etc...

So nothing changed. The game rinse and repeats its formula for ages and the devs streamline the game more and more with each patch in the hope to get more sales on the cost of gameplay and content.

If you seek a challenge and decision-making in any way, then you probably shouldn´t restart the game. FF14 is lost in its shadows, milked by shareholders and destroyed by toxic positivity from a community that thinks Yoshi is some messiahs of gaming and couldn´t stand any criticism about all the dumb changes the last 5 years.

[causality]

The reason the formula never changes is because research has shown children like things that are easily recognizable and enable them to surmise what will happen next. This is why children's shows like One Piece are the #1 selling published shounen Manga too.

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Thanks for the answers!

[causality]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Raansu:

This game will thankfully never have M+ style dungeons.

Yeah, if we learned anything from M6, it's that the FFXIV playerbase is not cut out for anything that requires more than a Hector guide and memorisation of preset positions.

I think you mean the NA PF, EU and JP do fine without hector guides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSer1vmlB0o

[[G.W.] Sunbro Greg]

Can you explain your point, please?

I for one think that mythic+ would save FFXIV, since it allows a smaller group of players/friends do endgame without having to go for a larger number of people. And seeing how you can’t skip mobs in modern dungeons I’d call it a win-win.

So what’s your opinion?

Originally posted by Raansu:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Yeah, if we learned anything from M6, it's that the FFXIV playerbase is not cut out for anything that requires more than a Hector guide and memorisation of preset positions.

I like M6S.

M+ dungeons and the entire concept with its keys is just no thanks.

[カイネ]

The formula has needed changing for years upon years, but if you're expecting it, I would move on. It's just not going to happen.

The recent live letter proved what was expected. They do not have the capacity to make sweeping changes. Not enough money, time, human resources or willpower.

[causality]

Originally posted by Катюша:

The formula has needed changing for years upon years, but if you're expecting it, I would move on. It's just not going to happen.

The recent live letter proved what was expected. They do not have the capacity to make sweeping changes. Not enough money, time, human resources or willpower.

CB3 gets no funding while other divisions in SE get to enjoy what it feels like being part of a multi billion yen/usd corporation with their FF7 spam remakes.

[Lixire]

Originally posted by G.W. Sunbro Greg:

Can you explain your point, please?

I for one think that mythic+ would save FFXIV, since it allows a smaller group of players/friends do endgame without having to go for a larger number of people. And seeing how you can’t skip mobs in modern dungeons I’d call it a win-win.

So what’s your opinion?

Originally posted by Raansu:

I like M6S.

M+ dungeons and the entire concept with its keys is just no thanks.

It could be an idea but I don't imagine it will fly in FFXIV
Especially when the game has attempted to introduce more difficult dungeons such as Criterion yet it flopped hard.
Most people will just do the Variant version and spam it for about 12 times to get all of the rewards and call it a day as the rewards from Criterion weren't worth the effort at all.

[Shield]

Originally posted by Lixire:

Originally posted by G.W. Sunbro Greg:

Can you explain your point, please?

I for one think that mythic+ would save FFXIV, since it allows a smaller group of players/friends do endgame without having to go for a larger number of people. And seeing how you can’t skip mobs in modern dungeons I’d call it a win-win.

So what’s your opinion?

It could be an idea but I don't imagine it will fly in FFXIV
Especially when the game has attempted to introduce more difficult dungeons such as Criterion yet it flopped hard.
Most people will just do the Variant version and spam it for about 12 times to get all of the rewards and call it a day as the rewards from Criterion weren't worth the effort at all.

I think there's still room for the possibility of repeatable 4 man content. Criterion came and went, but CriSav was a mishandling of content on the caliber of housing, and I want them to try that experiment again.

Just... hopefully with the feedback of the reward and dungeon structure. The reward structure especially.

[Stormy Dawn]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

https://livedoor.blogimg.jp/luckybancho/imgs/4/8/48c3392a.png

What do you mean?

We're on track to revert to Heavensward numbers by the end of the expansion. Player retention and new player acquisition are both at record lows. By what measure is this "doing fine"?

So?

That's natural for all MMOs. They ebb and flow overtime as does the quality and the quantity of players that are playing them. Yes, this is FF14's first major downswing, but it'll recover. WoW has had their share of upticks and downswings and is still kicking, the same will be true of FF14, too.

I don't understand why people think showing this graph is somehow proof of anything at all. For one, it's hardly a reliable metric, and even if you do take it for face value all it shows is exactly what I said. Now go find a similar graph for WoW, Guild Wars, ESO, etc.. and see similar trends and explain how this one graph is the exception and portends the end of the game.

[Shield]

I took a pretty long break from the forums. Have we figured out if DT is bad yet?

[Stormy Dawn]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Stormy Dawn:

So?

That's natural for all MMOs. They ebb and flow overtime as does the quality and the quantity of players that are playing them. Yes, this is FF14's first major downswing, but it'll recover. WoW has had their share of upticks and downswings and is still kicking, the same will be true of FF14, too.

I don't understand why people think showing this graph is somehow proof of anything at all. For one, it's hardly a reliable metric, and even if you do take it for face value all it shows is exactly what I said. Now go find a similar graph for WoW, Guild Wars, ESO, etc.. and see similar trends and explain how this one graph is the exception and portends the end of the game.

If it's natural then why does it look so different from the patterns that we've seen every other expansion?

Where else on the graph do you see 50% of the playerbase leaving between the x.0 and x.2 patches? Even Heavensward, previously the darkest time in the game's history, was nowhere close to Dawntrail in terms of haemorrhaging players.

Just because it hasn't been seen before doesn't make it unnatural. Again, look at active player count trends of other MMOs. They all have had similar, extreme, lulls at different points in their history.

That's not to say somehow things will automatically get better. Square Enix will always be their own worst enemy. They themselves could kill the game certainly, but pointing to a non-descriptive graph that doesn't even indicate a trend people are somehow reading isn't indicative of anything whatsoever.

[ame]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Stormy Dawn:

So?

That's natural for all MMOs. They ebb and flow overtime as does the quality and the quantity of players that are playing them. Yes, this is FF14's first major downswing, but it'll recover. WoW has had their share of upticks and downswings and is still kicking, the same will be true of FF14, too.

I don't understand why people think showing this graph is somehow proof of anything at all. For one, it's hardly a reliable metric, and even if you do take it for face value all it shows is exactly what I said. Now go find a similar graph for WoW, Guild Wars, ESO, etc.. and see similar trends and explain how this one graph is the exception and portends the end of the game.

If it's natural then why does it look so different from the patterns that we've seen every other expansion?

Where else on the graph do you see 50% of the playerbase leaving between the x.0 and x.2 patches? Even Heavensward, previously the darkest time in the game's history, was nowhere close to Dawntrail in terms of haemorrhaging players.

Sure, you'll see similar trends in other MMOs. Especially if you look at Warlords of Draenor or Shadowlands in WoW. Players tend to leave in droves when quality hits rock bottom and change is needed.

It's worth noting that the Shadowbringers and Endwalker player influx was largely due to external factors, such as streamers and other content creators publicizing the game. Although them leaving could hint towards a content lull, for others such as Asmongold—who primarily caused the pre-EW spike—they left before DT even started. This will inevitably lead to subscription numbers tapering off over time before they stabilize to a core playerbase.

Additionally, the numbers from recent Lucky Bancho surveys aren't final. If you compare the 2024Q4 Lucky Bancho report[livedoor.blogimg.jp] to the one you linked, you'll notice subscription numbers for 2024Q4 were actually a bit higher.

All this is to say that it'll inevitably even out. To blindly assume it will continue on a downward spiral to Heavensward numbers is mistaken.

[Stormy Dawn]

Originally posted by Shield:

I took a pretty long break from the forums. Have we figured out if DT is bad yet?

It's still pretty universally accepted to be bad. I highly doubt the conclusion to the story in 7.3 is going to make anyone look back on it fondly, at least from a narrative perspective. The game is being carried almost exclusively by non-story related content, that's for sure.

[Shield]

Originally posted by Stormy Dawn:

Originally posted by Shield:

I took a pretty long break from the forums. Have we figured out if DT is bad yet?

It's still pretty universally accepted to be bad. I highly doubt the conclusion to the story in 7.3 is going to make anyone look back on it fondly, at least from a narrative perspective. The game is being carried almost exclusively by non-story related content, that's for sure.

This is my takeaway too after resubbing for Bozja 2.

Tbh, I don't really see a way for DT to claw itself back into the good graces of the wider community in its content cycle. Something at least passably fresh needed to be a true slam dunk. But with Occult Crescent coming out with a mixed-positive reception, and much the same for mooncrafting, that leaves . . .

Well, I'm not actually sure what remains on the DT roadmap that's big knock-your-socks-off content. Beastmaster? Please god let Beastmaster save Dawntrail. That'd be so ucking funny.

There will be expected PvE support, but the small percentage of people raiding are already happy, and far from enough to help the game as it goes between Negative and Mostly Negative. Same with all the formula content.

I think DT will just have to be rehabilitated postmortem, much in the same way Stormblood, the previous black sheep expansion, has been. Enough people need to say "it really wasn't that bad" in a few years until it becomes the popular opinion.