Where do we go from here?

[aliendiplomat]

This game had a huge impact on me. Played at original launch and thought it was new and refreshing. Only got better with ARR. Came back after a long break and played straight through Heavensward to Endwalker and was absolutely blown away! Especially Shadowbringers and the wrap up for Endwalker just took MMO storytelling to a level I have never seen. Literally brought tears to my eyes.

Then we got Dawntrail. The main writer had stepped down (she was an absolute legend), and SE decided to hire notorious game-ruiners Sweet Baby Inc. to "consult" on their new direction, the same echo chamber that destroyed Dragon Age. Apparently everyone is afraid actually having your own vision and voice will offend someone, somewhere, and so instead of having nice things, we need to let some PC extortion firm tell us what to create and what our art is allowed to be.

So now we have this absolute train wreck of an expansion. It is literally "Hello Kitty Island Adventure" without the punchline. Just a big buff dommy mommy punching the Warrior of Light out of the way so she can talk about cultural diversity and the magic of friendship.

It is the most intellectually insulting fall from such heights that I'm not sure FFXIV will ever be able to recover. The thing that kept me personally subscribed for years wasn't the edgy hardcore raids or keeping up with the streamer culture. It was a compelling world and story that lived and breathed and most important, HAD SOMETHING TO SAY.

It feels like Sweet Baby Inc. stole this game's voice and replaced it with the most neutral, unoffensive, dumbed down and generic plot imaginable. Like they typed "generate a culture war safe, gender war safe, PG13 story about an axe wielding female cat and her journey on the magical island of make believe" into ChatGPT and hit "publish."

What is even the point of this story, in the context of FFXIV? How does it advance or enhance the established lore of 10+ years by existing? "Different culture good. Eat taco." seems about all it has to say.

Past writers with actual talent were able to let this be taken for granted while it wove an actual story through the various cultures of the game without having to stop and hold your hand and literally SING SONGS about the obvious (OMG I about went into a cringe coma when that madness started). It is called SUBTLETY. Having an actual story to tell, and having the different cultures playing a part establish that different cultures matter simply by being there.

Dawntrail seems like Captain Obvious pointing this out is literally all this story is.

I really don't know how this game is going to recover. The only thing keeping most people I know subbed is SE intentionally refusing to add instanced housing to force people to keep paying to avoid losing their house they waited 9+ months to get in the lottery. A rather scummy tactic in itself.

Blacklist Sweet Baby Inc. would be my first suggestion, and pay some actual writers.

[Kuromori]

I agree with you that the Expansion was hot garbage, but the whole Sweet Baby Inc. conspiracy thing is also hot garbage. There is no such thing. SE just tried to let new writers and younger staff work on this expansion and completely fumbled the bag... hopefully they learn from this, but i dont keep my hopes up...

[aliendiplomat]

Originally posted by Kuromori:

I agree with you that the Expansion was hot garbage, but the whole Sweet Baby Inc. conspiracy thing is also hot garbage. There is no such thing. SE just tried to let new writers and younger staff work on this expansion and completely fumbled the bag... hopefully they learn from this, but i dont keep my hopes up...

Hmm, are you certain? They were mentioned in the credits and Square Enix is on their list of clients. Also:

"Yoshida continued, saying, "We went to an external company, making sure that we're getting advice from them and input on what is appropriate and what could potentially be a risk."

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/dawntrail-takes-new-jobs-and-stories-where-final-fantasy-xiv-has-never-been/1100-6523979/

[Odd Nightsky]

>SBI mentioned
opinion discarded

[aliendiplomat]

Originally posted by Odd Nightsky:

>SBI mentioned
opinion discarded

Out of curiosity, why is that?

[Raansu]

SBI has had no involvement with FFXIV. Dawntrail story wasn't nearly as bad as ya'll try to scream about, especially from private accounts that are likely yet another alt account to troll the forums.

[aliendiplomat]

Me? I've been on Steam for over a decade, this is my main account. I just bought FFXIV through SE way back at launch so it won't show in my library here. /shrug

Anyway I was fairly certain it was confirmed SBI worked on Dawntrail. But whether it was them or another consulting firm, Yoshi P did confirm they worked with an outside group to ensure their story wasn't inappropriate or offensive (see above link).

[Nico Yazawa]

Originally posted by Raansu:

SBI has had no involvement with FFXIV. Dawntrail story wasn't nearly as bad as ya'll try to scream about, especially from private accounts that are likely yet another alt account to troll the forums.

Even non-private accounts think it was garbage.

[Halicor]

The game has more to offer than its MSQ

[causality]

Originally posted by Halicor:

The game has more to offer than its MSQ

Casual players don't understand DT offers the best optional content we ever got since SB and 7.25 will bring us Bozjan 3.0 so of course their opinions would be cemented around the story.

[Nico Yazawa]

Originally posted by causality:

Originally posted by Halicor:

The game has more to offer than its MSQ

Casual players don't understand DT offers the best optional content we ever got since SB and 7.25 will bring us Bozjan 3.0 so of course their opinions would be cemented around the story.

What optional content do you even have right now? A hard 24 man that just means higher chance of people causing wipes, as if Ozma and Cid haven't shown how bad people can be.

...That's about it huh? Everything else is the usual standard you expect from every expansion.

[Halicor]

Originally posted by Nico Yazawa:

Originally posted by causality:

Casual players don't understand DT offers the best optional content we ever got since SB and 7.25 will bring us Bozjan 3.0 so of course their opinions would be cemented around the story. :lunar2019piginablanket:

What optional content do you even have right now? A hard 24 man that just means higher chance of people causing wipes, as if Ozma and Cid haven't shown how bad people can be.

...That's about it huh? Everything else is the usual standard you expect from every expansion.

And that's..... bad?

You have all the past and current raid content including the evergreen Ultimates
PvP
Deep Dungeons, which just got updated with new rewards and are poised to get a new one again in .3
Eureka and Bozja and all the other evergreen content from past expansions
Etc etc etc

XIV is arguably the best MMO when it comes to variety of content that retains its relevancy out there and people just refuse to engage with any of it past a few hours lukewarm JRPG slop per patch and wiping their PF of choice as long as the sub holds

[Odd Nightsky]

Originally posted by aliendiplomat:

Originally posted by Odd Nightsky:

>SBI mentioned
opinion discarded

Out of curiosity, why is that?

"guys gaming sucks now because of [company hardly involved in anything]" be so for real right now.

[Nico Yazawa]

Originally posted by Halicor:

Originally posted by Nico Yazawa:

What optional content do you even have right now? A hard 24 man that just means higher chance of people causing wipes, as if Ozma and Cid haven't shown how bad people can be.

...That's about it huh? Everything else is the usual standard you expect from every expansion.

And that's..... bad?

You have all the past and current raid content including the evergreen Ultimates
PvP
Deep Dungeons, which just got updated with new rewards and are poised to get a new one again in .3
Eureka and Bozja and all the other evergreen content from past expansions
Etc etc etc

XIV is arguably the best MMO when it comes to variety of content that retains its relevancy out there and people just refuse to engage with any of it past a few hours lukewarm JRPG slop per patch and wiping their PF of choice as long as the sub holds

Past raids are basically irrelevent. Ultimate stay mostly evergreen, depends who you ask though. Some people say UCOB is worthless now. etc.

When I last played, Deep Dungeons were basically used as a means to level up, which Bozja took over since it's more entertaining than the snoozefest that is Deep Dungeons. POTD is soooooo boring until floor 171, not to mention a massive timesink to even get to that point. HoH to a lesser degree but the same idea, boring until 71+

If your idea of "This expansion is great!" and you're telling people to do several year old content that's... not the own you think it is.

[Halicor]

Originally posted by Nico Yazawa:

Originally posted by Halicor:

And that's..... bad?

You have all the past and current raid content including the evergreen Ultimates
PvP
Deep Dungeons, which just got updated with new rewards and are poised to get a new one again in .3
Eureka and Bozja and all the other evergreen content from past expansions
Etc etc etc

XIV is arguably the best MMO when it comes to variety of content that retains its relevancy out there and people just refuse to engage with any of it past a few hours lukewarm JRPG slop per patch and wiping their PF of choice as long as the sub holds

Past raids are basically irrelevent. Ultimate stay mostly evergreen, depends who you ask though. Some people say UCOB is worthless now. etc.

When I last played, Deep Dungeons were basically used as a means to level up, which Bozja took over since it's more entertaining than the snoozefest that is Deep Dungeons. POTD is soooooo boring until floor 171, not to mention a massive timesink to even get to that point. HoH to a lesser degree but the same idea, boring until 71+

If your idea of "This expansion is great!" and you're telling people to do several year old content that's... not the own you think it is.

Who is talking about owning anything? DT delivered just about the same quality of content that is to be expected.

DD may not be to your liking, and that's okay too. For some others it's the entire reason they sub. I listed it precisely because it just got updated and will receive a new one too.

The point remains that there is more to the game than *just* the latest 5 MSQ dialogues

[Nico Yazawa]

Originally posted by Halicor:

Originally posted by Nico Yazawa:

Past raids are basically irrelevent. Ultimate stay mostly evergreen, depends who you ask though. Some people say UCOB is worthless now. etc.

When I last played, Deep Dungeons were basically used as a means to level up, which Bozja took over since it's more entertaining than the snoozefest that is Deep Dungeons. POTD is soooooo boring until floor 171, not to mention a massive timesink to even get to that point. HoH to a lesser degree but the same idea, boring until 71+

If your idea of "This expansion is great!" and you're telling people to do several year old content that's... not the own you think it is.

Who is talking about owning anything? DT delivered just about the same quality of content that is to be expected.

DD may not be to your liking, and that's okay too. For some others it's the entire reason they sub. I listed it precisely because it just got updated and will receive a new one too.

The point remains that there is more to the game than *just* the latest 5 MSQ dialogues

And you literally listed years old content you don't even need to buy DT to do lol