Why the long GCD?

[Giganx]

The gameplay in this game is sluggish and boring even compared to other tab target MMO's. At low levels it's borderline hypnotic because you only have a few abilities and the GCD is nearly 3 SECONDS.

I sometimes wonder how anyone, myself included, managed to stick with this game long enough for combat not too feel like you're walking through molasses. Even at max level the gameplay simply goes from mind numbing to slightly below average pace. Things are never happening fast enough for you to feel jacked in and focused.

The GCD should really be in the 1-1.5 second range, and classes need more abilities a lot earlier.

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

This one was an exception, not everyone did Bozja and it was the only way to unlock it. I even went through the entirety of Bozja without unlocking it, I only became aware of it much after. The current EXes are directly tied to the story.

They're not part of the story in the sense that you have to do them to progress the main story; they're just as skippable as Bozja. Bozja was at least required for the relic so that kept it artificially alive for a while.

Unless they're tied to a roulette I don't see why anyone would be doing them beyond their typical lifespan.

Memoria Misera is the black sheep of Extremes, and that's the one you used to tell yourself how the PF works, it doesn't even drop a mount, which is probably the reason why no one does it. All other Extremes won't ever die because they drop mounts and materials to make shiny weapons (or to sell on the market board).

Look at the trials PF, you'll see all of them (those that are not soloable) except this one.

[Giganx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

They're not part of the story in the sense that you have to do them to progress the main story; they're just as skippable as Bozja. Bozja was at least required for the relic so that kept it artificially alive for a while.

Unless they're tied to a roulette I don't see why anyone would be doing them beyond their typical lifespan.

Memoria Misera is the black sheep of Extremes, and that's the one you used to tell yourself how the PF works, it doesn't even drop a mount, which is probably the reason why no one does it.

Look at the trials PF, you'll see all of them (those that are not soloable) except this one.

If Memoria EX is just THE exception then I guess it's unfortunate that's what shaped my opinion of PF. If I do want to run old EX content maybe I'll go back to PF and try again.

This is all kind of beyond the point, though. A 3 second base GCD is ridiculous, even if EX+ content is hectic enough to kind of make up for how bad that feels.

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

Memoria Misera is the black sheep of Extremes, and that's the one you used to tell yourself how the PF works, it doesn't even drop a mount, which is probably the reason why no one does it.

Look at the trials PF, you'll see all of them (those that are not soloable) except this one.

If Memoria EX is just THE exception then I guess it's unfortunate that's what shaped my opinion of PF. If I do want to run old EX content maybe I'll go back to PF and try again.

This is all kind of beyond the point, though. A 3 second GCD is ridiculous, even if EX+ content is hectic enough to kind of make up for how bad that feels.

I would agree with you if weaving wasn't a thing. Reaper for example their burst is so fast that if your ping is high enough you clip, I believe the same happens for machinist.

[Giganx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

If Memoria EX is just THE exception then I guess it's unfortunate that's what shaped my opinion of PF. If I do want to run old EX content maybe I'll go back to PF and try again.

This is all kind of beyond the point, though. A 3 second GCD is ridiculous, even if EX+ content is hectic enough to kind of make up for how bad that feels.

I would agree with you if weaving wasn't a thing. Reaper for example their burst is so fast that if your ping is high enough you clip, I believe the same happens for machinist.

Sorry, but you don't build gameplay around people who have 200ms connections.

Metas will change a bit, but this game would function fine with a 1.5 base GCD, and the game would feel 100x better for the other 99% of situations that aren't a Reapers endgame burst window.

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

I would agree with you if weaving wasn't a thing. Reaper for example their burst is so fast that if your ping is high enough you clip, I believe the same happens for machinist.

Sorry, but you don't build gameplay around people who have 200ms connections.

Metas will change a bit, but this game would function fine with a 1.5 base GCD, and the game would feel 100x better for the other 99% of situations that aren't a Reapers endgame burst window.

I haven't played WoW at a high level, but everyone who did play WoW and FFXIV at a high level disagrees with you. They feel WoW is slower because of the lack of weaving, even though it has a 1.5s GCD.

[Giganx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

Sorry, but you don't build gameplay around people who have 200ms connections.

Metas will change a bit, but this game would function fine with a 1.5 base GCD, and the game would feel 100x better for the other 99% of situations that aren't a Reapers endgame burst window.

I haven't played WoW at a high level, but everyone who did play WoW and FFXIV at a high level disagrees with you. They feel WoW is slower because of the lack of weaving, even though it has a 1.5s GCD.

Sorry but "everyone disagrees with you" is kind of a meaningless point to make unless "everyone" is here to verify it.

Besides, I'm not even suggesting we remove weaving. 1.5 base would likely mean you just can't double weave and some classes may become a little more ping reliant.

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

I haven't played WoW at a high level, but everyone who did play WoW and FFXIV at a high level disagrees with you. They feel WoW is slower because of the lack of weaving, even though it has a 1.5s GCD.

Sorry but "everyone disagrees with you" is kind of a meaningless point to make unless "everyone" is here to verify it.

Besides, I'm not even suggesting we remove weaving. 1.5 base would likely mean you just can't double weave and some classes may become a little more ping reliant.

I don't think it would work for a lot of classes unless you remove casting time to be quite honest, and remove faster GCDs for those classes who have a fast burst, you'd have to make a lot of changes to make it work. Astro already struggle to do everything even with a 2.5s GCD, I can't imagine them wanting a 1.5s GCD lol.

[Giganx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

Sorry but "everyone disagrees with you" is kind of a meaningless point to make unless "everyone" is here to verify it.

Besides, I'm not even suggesting we remove weaving. 1.5 base would likely mean you just can't double weave and some classes may become a little more ping reliant.

I don't think it would work for a lot of classes unless you remove casting time to be quite honest, and remove faster GCDs for those classes who have a fast burst, you'd have to make a lot of changes to make it work. Astro already struggle to do everything even with a 2.5s GCD, I can't imagine them wanting a 1.5s GCD lol.

The meta changes with basically every patch, so classes struggling to weave now is a temporary issue.

1.5 wouldn't require any major or fundamental changes to classes, just some tweaking, and tweaking is what they basically already do to every class with every balance patch. Reduce cast times, adjust any metas that rely on double weaving and just get the numbers to line up as well as they can. This is only slightly more complicated than the gameplay adjustments that already happen on a regular basis and it would improve low level gameplay considerably.

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

I don't think it would work for a lot of classes unless you remove casting time to be quite honest, and remove faster GCDs for those classes who have a fast burst, you'd have to make a lot of changes to make it work. Astro already struggle to do everything even with a 2.5s GCD, I can't imagine them wanting a 1.5s GCD lol.

The meta changes with basically every patch, so classes struggling to weave now is a temporary issue.

1.5 wouldn't require any major or fundamental changes to classes, just some tweaking, and tweaking is what they basically already do to every class with every balance patch. Reduce cast times, adjust any metas that rely on double weaving and just get the numbers to line up as well as they can. This is only slightly more complicated than the gameplay adjustments that already happen on a regular basis and it would improve low level gameplay considerably.

I don't play every classes so I can't list all the classes where fundamental changes would be needed but I'm quite sure that Reaper, Machinist, Astrologian and Black Mage would require fundamental changes. I'm sure if I played all classes to a high level I could fit more in there.

[Lemieux]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

The gameplay in this game is sluggish and boring even compared to other tab target MMO's. At low levels it's borderline hypnotic because you only have a few abilities and the GCD is nearly 3 SECONDS.

I sometimes wonder how anyone, myself included, managed to stick with this game long enough for combat not too feel like you're walking through molasses. Even at max level the gameplay simply goes from mind numbing to slightly below average pace. Things are never happening fast enough for you to feel jacked in and focused.

The GCD should really be in the 1-1.5 second range, and classes need more abilities a lot earlier.

Jacked in? Are you ok?

[Giganx]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

I don't play every classes so I can't list all the classes where fundamental changes would be needed but I'm quite sure that Reaper, Machinist, Astrologian and Black Mage would require fundamental changes. I'm sure if I played all classes to a high level I could fit more in there.

You'd have to explain. Speeding up the GCD really only impacts how much you can weave. The rest is just adjusting cast times and potencies to get to roughly the same output as the old GCD.

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ProteinSalad:

Jacked in? Are you ok?

That was a typo. I meant to say 'off.'

[Oberon]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ProteinSalad:

Jacked in? Are you ok?

That was a typo. I meant to say 'off.'

That's...uh...that's not better.

[Léon Scarlet]

because it was designed for ps3 at start

[Alternity]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Giganx:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย Alternity:

I don't play every classes so I can't list all the classes where fundamental changes would be needed but I'm quite sure that Reaper, Machinist, Astrologian and Black Mage would require fundamental changes. I'm sure if I played all classes to a high level I could fit more in there.

You'd have to explain. Speeding up the GCD really only impacts how much you can weave. The rest is just adjusting cast times and potencies to get to roughly the same output as the old GCD.

I'm not going to write a book, but in a nutshell:

Reaper, Machinist: Same reason here, the burst window would have to be completely altered since you wouldn't be able to weave at 0.75s GCD without clipping.

Astrologian and arguably any healer: You have to remove casting time, or reduce it to 0.5s which would be meaningless, otherwise you wouldn't be able to weave unless you're casting your DoT.

Black Mage: This is one very obvious, this class was built around not moving and casting, faster GCD would completely change how BLM plays and possibly its core identity.

[Raansu]

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย The Mayor of Murder Town:

โพสต์ดั้งเดิมโดย ランス:

I've never really cared for the long GCD's and I definitely see it as a turn off for new players, but it does speed up at the higher levels as this games combat is pretty heavily built on oGCD skills. Openers are pretty hectic for nearly every job.

Don't forget the mechanics. Hitting 1 > 4 5 > 2 > 6 7 > 3 > 8 9 repeat is one thing, but when you have to dodge a bunch of AOEs, especially as a caster.

Its not too bad on BLM. Aether manipulation has actually kind of made me lazy this tier with learning mechanics cuz I just zip over to whoever I need to be near for mechanic's ....except for P7S *eye twitches*