[Spoilers] Au Ra are really Draconic theory

[Big Boom Boom]

We know Midgarsorm came from another planet to Hydaelyn (referred to as this star in his conversation with Tiamat), bearing 7 Dragon Eggs.

Tiamat and Bahamut created the Meracydian Dragons.
Hvaswdamnwhathisname, Rastatokr and Nidhogg created the Dravanian Dragons.
So the two remaining Dragons are probably the Dawn Father and Dusk Mother in Au Ra Legend.

[Gabby]

İlk olarak Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

They didn't retocn anything. Again, you should go back and read my posts. There's not a single place where they did so. People quoting your belief fall back on a Nico Nico announcement where YoshiP talked about how you could make them look demonic if you wanted to.

Some turd on Reddit inserted the dragon bit and the claim they were based on demons. SE never said their final designs were based on Demons.

So basically, your retort is "No they didn't, and the places they did is just stuff people made up."

Cute.

Not places.

Place.

Single.

Because that's the only place that translation exists and it's not officially an SE statement. It's some random person on the internet. I'm sorry you think that everything on the internet is the truth.

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

It's also not an anti-dragon settings. I suggest playing the storyline.

Right, sorry, Ishgard loves dragons, I forgot. How silly of me. I forgot when you get there you find out the Dragonsong War that's been raging for centuries was just a joke someone made up, and you find the Archbishop and Nidhogg having tea and laughing about it.

I see you decided to skip the part where you help a tribe of dragons, befriend a dragon who eventually becomes your mount, discover that the entire peoples of Ishgard are actually decended from a coupling with Dragons and have dragon blood (hence why the heretics can TURN INTO DRAGONS) and want to ignore that the Dragonsong war began over the breaking of a 2000 year fellowship between the ancient peoples of Ishgard and Nidhogg's brood.

Or that Hylsvegar once loved a woman whom he consumed and made a part of him, who is now known as a Saint Shiva.

Or that the entire theme of the story is that a unity between Dragons and other peoples can exist and that they must learn to drop their own hatred.

Or that Doma, the land where these Au'Ra come from, isn't a part of the Dragonsong War in the slightest.

I apologize for the spoilers, but if you're going to be a complete ♥♥♥♥ and decidedly ignore more than half the plot to make your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument, I really don't have time to spare with your trolling nor the respect to hide what you clearly only heard about third hand, if you're not openly attempting to decieve.

[Oberon]

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball tarafından gönderildi:

So basically, your retort is "No they didn't, and the places they did is just stuff people made up."

Cute.

Not places.

Place.

Single.

Because that's the only place that translation exists and it's not officially an SE statement. It's some random person on the internet. I'm sorry you think that everything on the internet is the truth.

Right, sorry, Ishgard loves dragons, I forgot. How silly of me. I forgot when you get there you find out the Dragonsong War that's been raging for centuries was just a joke someone made up, and you find the Archbishop and Nidhogg having tea and laughing about it.

I see you decided to skip the part where you help a tribe of dragons, befriend a dragon who eventually becomes your mount, discover that the entire peoples of Ishgard are actually decended from a coupling with Dragons and have dragon blood (hence why the heretics can TURN INTO DRAGONS) and want to ignore that the Dragonsong war began over the breaking of a 2000 year fellowship between the ancient peoples of Ishgard and Nidhogg's brood.

Or that Hylsvegar once loved a woman whom he consumed and made a part of him, who is now known as a Saint Shiva.

Or that the entire theme of the story is that a unity between Dragons and other peoples can exist and that they must learn to drop their own hatred.

Or that Doma, the land where these Au'Ra come from, isn't a part of the Dragonsong War in the slightest.

Right, but when you first get to Ishgard--hell, even before you get to Ishgard, just doing missions in Coerthas--they ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ hate dragons. I'm honestly not surprised you failed to notice that.

[Gabby]

I'm trying to see what your point is, other than pushing that one faction in the game hates dragons, while you're actually making an attempt to broker peace between the Dragons and the people of Ishgard is a HUGE PART OF THAT PLOT.

All you're doing is trying to ignore the context and push the setting.

[Gabby]

In fact, you ignored every point I made to try an press your point that Ishgard hating dragons means that Au'Ra aren't dragons... how exactly does one prove the other? You're using a fallacy known as false equivocation in order to make your point. How about you address how you claimed the game says they're demons, when it doesn't, or provide evidence of what you said about the design from anywhere but that one reddit thread on Nico Nico which was already proven a false translation?

[Oberon]

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

I'm trying to see what your point is, other than pushing that one faction in the game hates dragons, while you're actually making an attempt to broker peace between the Dragons and the people of Ishgard is a HUGE PART OF THAT PLOT.

All you're doing is trying to ignore the context and push the setting.

You keep saying that, but you're ignoring the fact that the only reason you need to broker peace is because both sides hate each other. Kind of redundant to bring peace when the two factions don't hate each other.

Again, not surprising that you keep skipping over that part. You do have a tendency to, when you get rolling, look over major obvious details to avoid having to admit to being mistaken.

[Big Boom Boom]

Ishgardians also hate Au Ra. Didn't they killed off Au Ra in the past because they thought those were heretics? Even the DRK trainer got a beating when you were introduced to him.

[Oberon]

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

In fact, you ignored every point I made to try an press your point that Ishgard hating dragons means that Au'Ra aren't dragons... how exactly does one prove the other? You're using a fallacy known as false equivocation in order to make your point. How about you address how you claimed the game says they're demons, when it doesn't, or provide evidence of what you said about the design from anywhere but that one reddit thread on Nico Nico which was already proven a false translation?

How about this: Why would someone who is clearly part dragon be allowed into a city that is decisively at war with dragons, hm? And we're talking about a full on religious fervor with the whole thing, including an Inquisition set up to persecute "heretics" associating with Dravania? Yes, you get them to let go of that, but that doesn't refute that "Dragon = evil" is religious doctrine in Ishgard long before you even enter it.

[Gabby]

Oh you know, that little part about you being the Warrior of Light who not only saved Eorzea four fold times already, but the hero who turned the dragons at Ishgards gates in the last attack MIGHT help them overlook something.

Considering the story shows they overlook a LOT of things when it's convenient, I'd love you to explain why they wouldn't considering they owe you their asses several hundred fold already. (They'd probably overlook a full on dragon if it was openly stopping other dragons from attacking a city which has no defenses and is ripe for the slaughter. They're hateful, not stupid.)

Also, since you clearly ignored it before. The "heretics" are "heretics" because they're choosing to stop ignoring the fact that they are actually dragon blooded themslves. The nobility of Ishgard is actually fully aware of the fact. They know they're using the doctorine to their own ends.

So I ask you, why wouldn't they? And hatred isn't a valid answer. Your deeds at the gates override that privledge. I can easily claim that the nobility that tries to cut you down before even heading to Dravania is evidence that they can still hate you even without Au'Ra blood. Hate isn't a valid argument here. They let you in despite that. Ishgard preaches a hatred with all outsiders.

(Heck, if you're going to go with Doctorine, the Ishgard church also preaches against consorting with Voidspawn... so if they WERE demon related, your argument still wouldn't stand.)

İlk olarak Big Boom Boom tarafından gönderildi:

Ishgardians also hate Au Ra. Didn't they killed off Au Ra in the past because they thought those were heretics? Even the DRK trainer got a beating when you were introduced to him.

Yeah funny that. His argument is that since they hate dragons, they'd never let Au'Ra into the city, yet clearly they already tried to cleanse the city of Au'Ra in the past, so the claim is moot. At best, the scholarly argument that they aren't dragon related gives them an excuse to pretend they aren't dragon related.

[Sgt. Magnusson]

This is a very big deal.

[Luu]

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

They're also not scaled, they have thick hides at times and skin protusions, but they don't have scales. Au'Ra actually brag abou their hard dragon like scales. It's in both their descriptions.

Also being Voidspawn related would be a really bad lore move... because your connection to Hydaelan would kill you.

"The curved horns and beautifully patterned scales that characterize the Au Ra"
yes they are.

[Big Boom Boom]

İlk olarak Lewd Skeleton tarafından gönderildi:

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

They're also not scaled, they have thick hides at times and skin protusions, but they don't have scales. Au'Ra actually brag abou their hard dragon like scales. It's in both their descriptions.

Also being Voidspawn related would be a really bad lore move... because your connection to Hydaelan would kill you.

"The curved horns and beautifully patterned scales that characterize the Au Ra"
yes they are.

He's talking about how Voidkin does not have scale and Au Ra do. Voidkin does NOT resemble Lizards or Dragons.

[Gabby]

She, btw.

[Araedi]

İlk olarak Seraphna tarafından gönderildi:

Erm... care to actually point to where it's mentioned in game? Because so far I haven't seen anything of the sort. If you're referring to the Lore text, it says Scholars argue against the theory, it doesn't say anywhere that they aren't.

Also SE didn't retcon, all they've ever said regarding Demons is that you can customize your character to take on a demonic aesthetic with options they put into creation.

And I've been looking, because quite a few people have been trying to argue this demon thing without a shred of evidence. So far the only thing in the demon camp is an (unintentional?) mistranslation of that YoshiP said about making them look like demons at the Nico Nico event. Including a horribly cheaply inserted line about them not being dragon based... which he never actually said.

dark knight questline Sidurgu says they were executed because the ishgardian people looked at them and thought they were of dragon and mortal breeding which in his own words is not the case

[Araedi]

İlk olarak Big Boom Boom tarafından gönderildi:

Demon in Hydaelyn, refer to as Voidkin, is vastly different from the standard conception of Demon. Voidkin are of all shapes and forms, for some you can argue there's no actual form and they can take on the shape they prefer like Cloud of Darkness or Dullahan (which is basically formless and possess the armour). However, in all their forms they lack one thing the Au Ra have: scales. Voidkin are not lizardlike, at all.

Known voidkin models:
Imps
Succubus
Batman Bartram
Cthulhu Mindflayer
Dullahan
Cloud of Darkness
Ahriman (?)
Cerberus
Atomos (?) these beings travel between space and time either way

Incorrect Gargoyles you know like the one you fight in AV has SCALES and is a voidsent Cerberus? voidsent has scales as well succubus horns have scales too the demons and vodoriga have hard plates as skin which can be seen as well scales demon wall has some scales too atomos lamia all of these have scales which is the sole basis for anything concerning Au Ra "they have scales must be draconic or lizards" which im sorry isnt the case even going back to the Au Ra concept art they were initally drawn as demonic beings

[Kitsune]

Holy necropost, Hildebrand!