First time dungeon play problem

[K4ever]

I tried to post this in the official lodestone forums, but the stupid system didnt let me write more than 1000 characters on my post, so I decided to post here.

I have been enjoying FFXIV for over a month now, and I like it. I dont read online guides at all, because I dont want to get spoilers about what would I be able to see or experience in the future. I like to figure stuff on my own, and to actually think what Im doing wrong in order to overcome the problem and move on. Last time I played I did my first ever dungeon (Sastasha of course), and didnt like it at all. I have a l60 friend on my list that told me, a long time ago, that when I hit dungeons I would definitely have to think twice before doing an action. The problem is that I dont have any actual friends that play this game, so my only option is to party up with randoms. Anyways, I chose to be a healer, and starting the raid the main tank just rushed himself into the dungeon. I didnt have the time to enjoy the environment, the graphic details, the messages the game was giving me as well as its background story and hints. I spent around half an hour just trying to catch up with this guy and healing him over and over and over again. It was boring. Now Im tempted in redoing the dungeon again but with a different role, but Im not sure how different the experience will be. Most players just rush themselves into a dungeon in order to get quick experience and move on. I am the type that takes his time to appreciate and analize a dungeon layout, and move on carefully, while reading every message I can find. Is this latter option impossible to do with random people using duty finder? I havent joined or stayed too long in a free company exactly because of this. I dont want to get spoiled about how to kill an enemy/boss or get help in order to level up pretty quick "unnaturally" (and become overpowered in the process). Maybe there are free companies out there where they let new players, that havent done certain dungeons, get together and try to finish it themselves at a normal pace.
By the way, this is my very first mmorpg I have ever played, and I did it because I like the final fantasy universe, and because the game looks so pretty. People told me that these kind of rpgs are, of course, better played with a group people that you already know. I havent played XIV in a week, and its certainly because of this problem. If you guys can point me in the right direction I certainly would appreciate it. And if the game is just as it is, I will just quit and play a good ol single player rpg where I can actually think and not just spam 2 or 3 actions over and over again.

[Oberon]

Цитата допису K4:

I have been enjoying FFXIV for over a month now, and I like it. I dont read online guides at all, because I dont want to get spoilers about what would I be able to see or experience in the future. I like to figure stuff on my own, and to actually think what Im doing wrong in order to overcome the problem and move on.

Break that habit. A lot of late game bosses will require you to know what you're doing, involving moving around in certain ways and/or carefully laid out order of attack. And it is very detrimental to the team effort if you go in blind and get everyone killed.

[Nico Yazawa]

Long story short:

Yes. Nobody in duty finder wants to take 2 hours waiting for someone to explore and look around.

[K4ever]

Цитата допису Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball:

Цитата допису K4:

I have been enjoying FFXIV for over a month now, and I like it. I dont read online guides at all, because I dont want to get spoilers about what would I be able to see or experience in the future. I like to figure stuff on my own, and to actually think what Im doing wrong in order to overcome the problem and move on.

Break that habit. A lot of late game bosses will require you to know what you're doing, involving moving around in certain ways and/or carefully laid out order of attack. And it is very detrimental to the team effort if you go in blind and get everyone killed.

Havent you heard of the term "learn by experience"?

Its no fun for me to just do what Im told to do without me thinking. Kind of how most first person shooters like call of duty do these nowadays. Hold your hand until the very end of the game. No challenge, nothing. Too boring for me. But if this is how mmorps are played then I will just stick to more challenging games.

[TTV | Mockiingway]

wtf....first world problems hahahhaa

[Oberon]

Цитата допису K4:

Цитата допису Big Chief Devil Hawk Fireball:

Break that habit. A lot of late game bosses will require you to know what you're doing, involving moving around in certain ways and/or carefully laid out order of attack. And it is very detrimental to the team effort if you go in blind and get everyone killed.

Havent you heard of the term "learn by experience"?

Yes, and it doesn't apply here.

Цитата допису K4:

Its no fun for me to just do what Im told to do without me thinking. Kind of how most first person shooters like call of duty do these nowadays. Hold your hand until the very end of the game.

Blind runs are okay only if the dungeon itself is brand new. But no one is going to put up with someone who is new to a dungeon and refuses to learn by any other means than failure. T5 was hard enough even when we were following a guide.

Цитата допису K4:

No challenge, nothing. Too boring for me. But if this is how mmorps are played then I will just stick to more challenging games.

It's cute that you think "Read a guide = no challenge," especially in how wrong it is. Right now, you couldn't even begin to comprehend what endgame is like, in this or any other MMO. Guides don't exist because they make things too easy, they exist to make things possible at all. There's a reason less than a hundred people have completed Alexander Savage.

It really sounds to me like you just want to make things as painful as possible for the rest of your party, taking your time to enjoy the scenery, or refusing to listen to instruction on how to kill bosses. If you really do plan on leaving MMOs, then good riddance, I don't need someone around mucking up my dungeon runs with that mindset, I'm already dreading what Void Ark is going to be like. But if you plan to stay, remember that you can't bring a single-player mindset into a multiplayer game like this.

[StalwartSoul]

First reality check -

You'll get yourself kicked from dungeons with this kind of approach. It has to be said. In MMORPGs, dungeons are the most "toxic" of places. You have your elitists, speed runners, etc. Hence, the reason why a lot of players often skip them. But FFXIV makes you play them, like it or not. So you do have to play by the rules. Whatever you do on your own, drop it at the entrance.

You won't get yelled at by not knowing the dungeon but holding up the run is huge no-no. A lot of players are already iffy when they see a newbie, they already expect the run to take longer. Don't make it worse.

Whatever role you play won't matter either. Kicking is always available. You are wasting other people's time and therefore ruining their experience.

My FC is pretty nice with new players, I'm kinda new myself. They usually offer to take me through trials/dungeons. But they are playing their own game, they have dailies and such to complete. They won't hang around all day and wait for me to inspect every textured surface in the dungeon.

Advice -

Maybe transfer to an RP server? I hear they are a lot nicer in dungeons? Or not play any type of MMORPG? Stick with single player?

Again, this needs to be said. This is not only about your experience, but about everyone who is currently in the same instance with you. You make adjustments to make it fun for everyone. I'm sorry that you will never find an MMORPG that will fit that kind of play style.

[K4ever]

So what am I being suggested to do then? Start a dungeon for first time, and if Im dps or healer I should just follow the tank and either attack what he is attacking or heal him/her? Or maybe since its my first time I should either ask someone in my party: "excuse me? Im new, what do you guys want me to do?". Or maybe I should just check an online guide and learn everything about a new dungeon beforehand, so I should just do whatever it suggests me to do?

I understand this is not a dark souls game, but being hand guided through an area is very boring.

[K4ever]

Well, I just finished raiding the dungeon as a tank. I 100% the dungeon and everyone was nice following me. Still it felt more like farming, and not as a challenge. If any of my dps players engaged an enemy first I had to aggro the enemy right away in order to protect him/her. I crowd controlled pretty well every encounter, and still didnt enjoy it.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Oberon]

Цитата допису K4:

So what am I being suggested to do then? Start a dungeon for first time, and if Im dps or healer I should just follow the tank and either attack what he is attacking or heal him/her? Or maybe since its my first time I should either ask someone in my party: "excuse me? Im new, what do you guys want me to do?". Or maybe I should just check an online guide and learn everything about a new dungeon beforehand, so I should just do whatever it suggests me to do?

Yes, do all of that.

Eventually healers are expected to do the Stance Dance and become DPSs, DPSs have to learn proper rotations to maximize their damage output. (Raging Strikes > Tri-Disaster > Contagion > Fester > Painflare > Bane > Shadow Flare > Aetherflow > Dreadwyrm Trance > Ruin 3 until about two seconds are left on Trance > Death Flare > Reapply DOTs > Ruin 1 until other cooldowns are ready, that's my mob rotation for Summoner) So it won't stay simple forever.

Цитата допису K4:

I understand this is not a dark souls game, but being hand guided through an area is very boring.

Try to look at it from the other side's point of view: This new guy gets into the dungeon, drags his feet looking at rocks, and has no idea what he's supposed to do at bosses. I'd hate to have someone like you in my alliance in World of Darkness.

Цитата допису K4:

Well, I just finished raiding the dungeon as a tank. I 100% the dungeon and everyone was nice following me. Still it felt more like farming, and not as a challenge. If any of my dps players engaged an enemy first I had to aggro the enemy right away in order to protect him/her. I crowd controlled pretty well every encounter, and still didnt enjoy it.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Tanking is actually very difficult at first, it doesn't get easy until around level 26, when Gladiators get Rage of Halone, or when Marauders hit 30, become Warriors and get Butcher's Block and Defiance.

And if a DPS pulls an enemy before you do, you get to chew them out for it. The ideal for Taking is to use either Shield Lob or Tomahawk, depending on which type of tank you are. Then, if you're gladiator, hit every enemy with three Flashes, then chain into Riot Blade Twice, then Flash again. For Marauder, group all the enemies up and hit them with three rounds of Overpower, then cycle between Heavy Swing and Skull Sunder.

[gamester494]

Lol never thought it like that, even I as tank rush through dungeons just to get the xp.

[gamester494]

Цитата допису K4:

Well, I just finished raiding the dungeon as a tank. I 100% the dungeon and everyone was nice following me. Still it felt more like farming, and not as a challenge. If any of my dps players engaged an enemy first I had to aggro the enemy right away in order to protect him/her. I crowd controlled pretty well every encounter, and still didnt enjoy it.

Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

Wait till you get to end game content it will be way better.

[BigCountryBL]

Pretty sure it's been said, but there is a ton of content that if you dont read up on something to GET AN IDEA of what it's going to be like then you're probably going to make the group not finish if they havent kicked you. Or you'll be carried and get a clear with you not helping at all. This is my first MMORPG also, but I'm not a douchbag that'll make people waste their time. Get in a dungeon, tell them it's your first time, take their advice. You sound like it's your way or the highway, and I hope you choose the highway much sooner than later if you dont adjust. Ran into a guy tanking that ignored my advice till he got angry I started tanking for him with a dps. Then had the nerve to ask me what Tomahawk means. You sound like that guy.

[Oberon]

Цитата допису BigCountryBL:

Pretty sure it's been said, but there is a ton of content that if you dont read up on something to GET AN IDEA of what it's going to be like then you're probably going to make the group not finish if they havent kicked you. Or you'll be carried and get a clear with you not helping at all. This is my first MMORPG also, but I'm not a douchbag that'll make people waste their time. Get in a dungeon, tell them it's your first time, take their advice. You sound like it's your way or the highway, and I hope you choose the highway much sooner than later if you dont adjust. Ran into a guy tanking that ignored my advice till he got angry I started tanking for him with a dps. Then had the nerve to ask me what Tomahawk means. You sound like that guy.

It has been said, but it really bears repeating. I think he's chosen the highway at this point though. Normally I'd add "unfortunately" to that kind of sentence, but we're talking about someone who wants to hold up his party so he can look at rocks, and refuses to read guides because he thinks it'd make things "too easy" as if he understood the difficulty curve of this game at all. So I don't know that this is particularly unfortunate.

[NAD "Non-Auto-Domesticated" NAD]

im pretty sure theres no game out there that doesnt have tard people in randoms trying to rush threw for no reason and have 0 experience or knowledge to do so , welcome to the land of random tard dungeons.. have a seat your going to be pissed off for a while :)

[K4ever]

FFXIV graphics are great, but that been said, its a mmorpg. I was new to the genre, played it, decided it wasnt my cup of tea, then quit. I would rather be playing games where I make my own decisions and move on, than playing the way other people tells me to.

Plus, Im bored of it. Maybe if I was younger, with no other things to do than to spend hours and hours farming/grinding for experience, then I could "like" this type of games.

Honestly, how can people have fun fighting the same type of enemies over and over again by just mashing 1 or 2 abilities? For the loot? For the leveling up? ... I just dont get it.