I quit because of forced raids and trapped in ARR

[belgarathmth]

I know I'm risking getting flamed here, but I'm curious whether anyone else had this experience and went back to WoW.

Background: I've played WoW for years as a solo player for questing, exploring, professions, and collecting, without ever setting foot in a raid. That's how I enjoy playing MMO's.

So, I tried FFXIV, being told that it's story-based (good thing) and largely played solo (good thing), except for "a few" dungeons and raids that progress the story.

This is not true. The game requires *most* dungeons and raids to progress the story, and *they have to be done in order*. You cannot move on until you clear the dungeon or the raid. One of the forced ones I had to do, "The Praetorium", lasted almost an hour, and I was left behind by the other players to wander around lost, watching cutscenes as they happened.

The last straw for me was a raid called "The Ancient Labyrinth". I died from not knowing the mechanics, and no one raised me. I didn't know whether to release or what, so I just lay there until the rest of the people were about two rooms ahead, when the game finally offered me a teleport to the final boss. Talk about being carried! I don't even *like* raiding. I don't *want* to do any raids.

Even this wouldn't be so bad, but *you cannot explore any more areas, zones, quests, or story until you complete this series of raids.* You will be trapped in the base game forever, unable to even progress your professions.

I wish I had known this before I bought the Complete Edition of the game, because I was really enjoying it until those forced raids.

What the game's defenders don't tell you when they're trying to convince you to play it is that you *cannot* explore the game and do different things the way you can in WoW without completing all the dungeons and raids first. (There are a *lot* of them. At least a couple of dozen in just the base game that I played.)

I've never seen a game this on rails before.

It made me really appreciate the freedom of WoW, where you can go anywhere and do anything at any time. I went back.

[Casval Zem Daikun]

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

I'm still not understanding this point you're promoting.
It's like getting kicked out of a strip club for using the word "tits" because it's offensive. It's almost like the environment matters. And when your environment is riddled with literal war crimes...

"There's bad stuff in the story" doesn't give you the right to directly insult other players.

A thought experiment, please:
Can you quote where I proposed calling someone a ♥♥♥♥♥?

I'm going to be grading this assignment as an exercise of your reading comprehension. This may or may not be on the test later.

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

By the way, you can say "♥♥♥♥♥" in the game without getting in trouble, and I know this for a fact because I've gotten away with it plenty of time. But then I only ever used it to refer to myself self-deprecatingly. Context matters. You didn't get in trouble for using a swear word, you got in trouble because it was part of an attack on another player.

I have personal experiences that suggest otherwise but ok.

I_Was_Born_In_The_USA původně napsal:

Guild Wars 2 didn't force me to play with other players. I soloed the whole story of it on all classes. Did open world "group" content for high tier achivements and some instances for groups too. Crafted BiS gear by travelling around the world, trading via marketplace and having fun. Took some learning and time, but it was fun and didn't feel like I was breakig something. Multiplayer interactions can be an *option* and not a necessity depending on the game and what developers have in mind. Don't get so triggered, cumstain knight.

Its quite fascinating that a lot of people can't fathom the idea that there are people who play said games not for the MMO part, but for the RPG part that you missed in your reactionary fart of a reply.

For a lot of people, FF14 is their first MMO. They don't understand that being lumped into the "MMO" genre doesn't mean requiring party-based hand holding just to teleport back to town.

[Oberon]

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

"There's bad stuff in the story" doesn't give you the right to directly insult other players.

A thought experiment, please:
Can you quote where I proposed calling someone a ♥♥♥♥♥?

I'm going to be grading this assignment as an exercise of your reading comprehension. This may or may not be on the test later.

Easy: The fact that when me and others pointed out that's what you did, you never actually denied it, and you still haven't. And because no one just uses the word "♥♥♥♥♥" randomly in casual conversation.

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

By the way, you can say "♥♥♥♥♥" in the game without getting in trouble, and I know this for a fact because I've gotten away with it plenty of time. But then I only ever used it to refer to myself self-deprecatingly. Context matters. You didn't get in trouble for using a swear word, you got in trouble because it was part of an attack on another player.

I have personal experiences that suggest otherwise but ok.

Do you?

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

I_Was_Born_In_The_USA původně napsal:

Guild Wars 2 didn't force me to play with other players. I soloed the whole story of it on all classes. Did open world "group" content for high tier achivements and some instances for groups too. Crafted BiS gear by travelling around the world, trading via marketplace and having fun. Took some learning and time, but it was fun and didn't feel like I was breakig something. Multiplayer interactions can be an *option* and not a necessity depending on the game and what developers have in mind. Don't get so triggered, cumstain knight.

Its quite fascinating that a lot of people can't fathom the idea that there are people who play said games not for the MMO part, but for the RPG part that you missed in your reactionary fart of a reply.

For a lot of people, FF14 is their first MMO. They don't understand that being lumped into the "MMO" genre doesn't mean requiring party-based hand holding just to teleport back to town.

This game doesn't require that either.

[Oberon]

I_Was_Born_In_The_USA původně napsal:

You just missed it because you got oh-so-upset that someone doesn't praise everything about the product you're so obsessed with. Reading is great, ain't it?

These two sentences contradict each other.

[Rinky]

I_Was_Born_In_The_USA původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

Just because some other game did things differently doesn't mean you should expect every game to do things like that. You joined a multiplayer game expecting a solo experience, don't blame the game because you thought it was something it told you it wasn't.

What's amazing is that my original message is exactly about that. About how FF14 does things and how I see it as a solo player. You just missed it because you got oh-so-upset that someone doesn't praise everything about the product you're so obsessed with. Reading is great, ain't it? At least when you're not blinded by soy-rage lmao

As a fighting player who plays only racing games, I can relate to your position.

Cars suck. I want to fight. But you can't even get out of your car wtf

[Casval Zem Daikun]

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

Yeah, I can see that's deliberate language, in fact I've seen it plenty of times before. It's the kind of language someone uses when they're trying to paint themselves as a victim.

When did I propose that?

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

They say they were banned for just using a word,

When did I propose this too?

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

but carefully leave out the context in which they use it.

I didn't provide context because it's a simple hypothetical.
Meanwhile you're ignoring language to support your own head-canon to justify a witch hunt.
There is no witch, bro. Put the pitch fork down, pick up a book, and try reading.

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

You're defending yourself right now, but okay.

Asking for citations = so defensive.

Hilariously this is just becoming an exercise of pointing out how much you're not reading or understanding. Can't wait for the next mental backflip to head-canon some other crap.

[Oberon]

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

Yeah, I can see that's deliberate language, in fact I've seen it plenty of times before. It's the kind of language someone uses when they're trying to paint themselves as a victim.

When did I propose that?

You didn't, I did.

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

They say they were banned for just using a word,

When did I propose this too?

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

Excuse me while I get suspended for using the word "♥♥♥♥♥"

Right there, you claimed it was just for using the word, but you left out the context in which you used it.

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

but carefully leave out the context in which they use it.

I didn't provide context because it's a simple hypothetical.

Hmm, no it isn't! Because you also said this:

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

By the way, you can say "♥♥♥♥♥" in the game without getting in trouble, and I know this for a fact because I've gotten away with it plenty of time. But then I only ever used it to refer to myself self-deprecatingly. Context matters. You didn't get in trouble for using a swear word, you got in trouble because it was part of an attack on another player.

I have personal experiences that suggest otherwise but ok.

So if it was just a hypothetical, how would you have personal experience about it?

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

The Mayor of Murder Town původně napsal:

You're defending yourself right now, but okay.

Asking for citations = so defensive.

Yes, actually, especially in the way you're doing it.

[Magistar]

belgarathmth původně napsal:

I know I'm risking getting flamed here, but I'm curious whether anyone else had this experience and went back to WoW.

Background: I've played WoW for years as a solo player for questing, exploring, professions, and collecting, without ever setting foot in a raid. That's how I enjoy playing MMO's.

So, I tried FFXIV, being told that it's story-based (good thing) and largely played solo (good thing), except for "a few" dungeons and raids that progress the story.

This is not true. The game requires *most* dungeons and raids to progress the story, and *they have to be done in order*. You cannot move on until you clear the dungeon or the raid. One of the forced ones I had to do, "The Praetorium", lasted almost an hour, and I was left behind by the other players to wander around lost, watching cutscenes as they happened.

The last straw for me was a raid called "The Ancient Labyrinth". I died from not knowing the mechanics, and no one raised me. I didn't know whether to release or what, so I just lay there until the rest of the people were about two rooms ahead, when the game finally offered me a teleport to the final boss. Talk about being carried! I don't even *like* raiding. I don't *want* to do any raids.

Even this wouldn't be so bad, but *you cannot explore any more areas, zones, quests, or story until you complete this series of raids.* You will be trapped in the base game forever, unable to even progress your professions.

I wish I had known this before I bought the Complete Edition of the game, because I was really enjoying it until those forced raids.

What the game's defenders don't tell you when they're trying to convince you to play it is that you *cannot* explore the game and do different things the way you can in WoW without completing all the dungeons and raids first. (There are a *lot* of them. At least a couple of dozen in just the base game that I played.)

I've never seen a game this on rails before.

It made me really appreciate the freedom of WoW, where you can go anywhere and do anything at any time. I went back.

The solution is the story skip that can be purchased. After that you are free to play the game as you like.

[Jin-]

Maybe online games aren't for you. Nothing wrong in that.

[Rinky]

I_Was_Born_In_The_USA původně napsal:

RINKASHIKACHI původně napsal:

As a fighting player who plays only racing games, I can relate to your position.

Cars suck. I want to fight. But you can't even get out of your car wtf

Awww, that's adorable. Are you proud that you can't read either? Or are your feefees boo-boo too, because someone discusses the way the game is designed without adding "positivity" disclaimers first? Say, do you do fighting by throwing non-replies around? No wonder you only play racing games then.

this game is designed the way a MMO is supposed to be designed to.

I know a lot of severe disadvantages of FF. Old engine, outdated graphics, barely sustainable PvP, empty corridor maps, doodoo mogstation related stuff, cash shop in a subscription based game etc.

Ok? You can talk about that and I'm sure I will agree with you, no matter how hard you will hit.
But your current position about how Massive Multiplayer game is bad for solo players (even though it is not, lol) is ridiculous

[Greeble]

Even WoW pretty much requires you to go in certain dungeons for content. Some races required you do the story line to a certain point that you could only do via dungeon. Some of the class sets required raid. I was nervous on some of it sure, but honestly the community is awesome, find yourself a FC and Im certain people will help you.

[justgelling]

Syeren původně napsal:

Even WoW pretty much requires you to go in certain dungeons for content.

I'd been playing WoW since Cata (though I'm 100% done at this point), but I think the trend in requiring or at least strongly encouraging completing the dungeon for zone story quests is a new one since Legion, is it not? I got the sense maybe the WoW team was taking a page from their competitors by trying to actually tell a story while leveling, including use of instances.

Anyhow, I'd submit that it's a pretty bad argument to take anything from post-MoP WoW design into consideration. In fact, if you're designing an MMO it should be a giant red flag if you find yourself following WoW's lead in anything these days.

[ParasiteX]

You're complaining that a Massively Multiplayer Online game is making you play with a mass of multiple players? Are you serious? What do you even do in WoW? If you want a single player game.. then play a single player game..
The fact this game funnels players through dungeon and raid content to progress, is the best design choice ever. As it makes sure to teach players the basics of the actual games mechanics.

[Caz]

belgarathmth původně napsal:

@The Mayor, I do the entire game of WoW solo.

No you don't. Even with how watered down WoW is these days, you still have to do dungeons. That is not a solo activity.

[Casval Zem Daikun]

ParasiteX původně napsal:

You're complaining that a Massively Multiplayer Online game is making you play with a mass of multiple players? Are you serious? What do you even do in WoW? If you want a single player game.. then play a single player game..
The fact this game funnels players through dungeon and raid content to progress, is the best design choice ever. As it makes sure to teach players the basics of the actual games mechanics.

This is the only MMO you've played, isn't it?
Also, you learn the vast majority of mechanics the first time you leave town: Don't stand in orange.

From healing raids for years, the vast majority of people still manage to ♥♥♥♥ this up.

[Oberon]

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

ParasiteX původně napsal:

You're complaining that a Massively Multiplayer Online game is making you play with a mass of multiple players? Are you serious? What do you even do in WoW? If you want a single player game.. then play a single player game..
The fact this game funnels players through dungeon and raid content to progress, is the best design choice ever. As it makes sure to teach players the basics of the actual games mechanics.

This is the only MMO you've played, isn't it?

I've played plenty, and the ones that weren't absolutely awful still required you to party up with other people.

Casval Zem Daikun původně napsal:

Also, you learn the vast majority of mechanics the first time you leave town: Don't stand in orange.

Yeah, right outside, where you also learn about towers, stack markers, and gaze attacks.