[spoilers]Finished MSQ. Story is aweful, with many many issues.

[Holy Athena]

spoiler warning. If you haven't finished the MSQ and don't want spoilers, do not read ahead.

-----------------------------
-----------------------------

I'm going to leave out Wuk lamat, and voice acting issues. Wuk, Sphene, and a few others just had flat, terrible voice acting when it came to matching the energy and emotions that is supposed to be displayed, and there is honest to god no argueing that, that final speech by Sphene was the most flatlined delivery of an emotional situation I've ever seen in an FF, even compared to Wuk. Great voice acting right up until emotions were involved, as a fair soft spoken Princess, played it perfectly, right up until the end.
---------------------

My issues with this story come with the huge amounts of inconsistencies, plot holes, and other badly written situations.

Apart from the fact, that 95% of the story really has nothing to do with anything and is just baby sitting simulator for a clueless princess that knows next to nothing. It could of been a "your adventure in a wild new land" without the baby sitting, where diving into each culture was interesting and fun, rather than a job I get roped into against my will.

We still could of learned a lot from Wuk and got to know the characters through these adventures, rather than well what I said above.
-------------------

But it goes beyond that too.. The characters are just... horribly written... Sphene and Wuk being a major part of that badly written arc.

Sphene who is supposed to be this "oh I love people, and peace, and want the best for them" then decides that genocidal rampage is the best option.. Which doesn't even make sense compared to what Otis describes about her, and while it ends up all the Endless are just empty husks and she's a program, it feels forced to make a world vs world situation again like ShB, and there wasn't enough story telling and world building because 60% of the story is baby sitting Wuk.

And I understand its supposed to be this "good intentions gone bad" cliche which we've already seen in FF14 story time and time again, but its so badly setup, and rushed, which also just makes the whole writing look and feel super lazy.

Then you have the First, who becomes King.. It's like.. his intentions just shfit for no reason...

He wants to bring war and genocide to the world, to make them cry for peace, and bring the world under his peaceful banner.. Which he literally says almost word for word...

Great plan for a psychopath, if the world wasn't already 99% at peace, due to massive calamities, Multiple civil wars, and The Empire, which had been ravaging 90% of the world and conquesting everything for so long already...

You're a minute late and dollar short there buddy.. the world is already what you want it to be.. everyone is already crying for peace... So his whole ideal is already broken out of the get go.
---------------------

And this is where the plot holes and other major inconsistencies with the story crop up. It's like this entire continent just popped into existence after End Walker..

The entire situation with the EMpire, ARR, cataclysm before that, none of it exists in their history apparently, even The Firsts reasoning makes no sense because of what I just explaiend.. it would fit if it was an entirely different world set apart from our own.


It almost feels like this entire area was supposed to be an entirely different world like ShB's was, but they ran out of time, and so they dropped it into our world.

Infact, I almost 100% am convinced that this entire DawnTrail story was supposed to take part in an entirely different realm, because of 1 thing that Uringiar says towards the end.

He says "This Realm has many issues unlike our own" you what?

I think that was an oversight, and he references this area as "This realm" as if referencing something other than our own realm.
-------------------------

Then you have the basic bad writing of rushing issues... We meet the son, then are supposed to feel bad because we just killed his father and he's all sad.. We never get character development towards anything, and its just "lets force tear jerk moment, you should feel sad cuz sad moment"

That just doesn't work for a compelling and good story. This whole thing should of been stretched out far more, yet it was all hacked together without any actual good development outside of that.

-----------------------------

THere are so many other issues with the story, inconsistincies both in character plot and development... I could honestly write 6 more pages on it.

------------------------------

Bottom line is.... people who defend the story keep giving asinine excuses of why people don't like it. "well they just want non stop combat" or "they hate the VC cuz reasons" or "Our character isn't the main focus so they hate it"

None of which is true for 90% of the complaints towards the story I've seen. The story is just straight up bad.. It has bad plot points, forced situations that make no sense (like Sphenes people being practically immmortal, but oh no, we have to go on a genocidal rampage anyway even though my entire character arc, and previously explained personality would go completely against that, because I'm a loving caring person), but also the game makes consistently bad writing mistakes of forcing emotional moments to characters with no build up, or extended character arc, expecting us to care.

I'm going to end it here, because like I said, I could go and on with more points, and reasons, so I have to stop myself somewhere, I didn't even get into the fact, that half the story point of Alexandria, and how The First even got to be King and raised an army is because 30+ years has passed, yet no time passes at all when we are there, cuz "Reasons".

-------------------------------

If you like the story, great. I personally was expecting more... I already had low expectations, but this didn't even hit that, and I'm greatly disappointed.

-----------------

After the back and forth with komarimu, I want to clarify:

The story itself isn't bad per say.. Just the delivery of it in every aspect, as well as many issues, forced writing/badly delivered key points, which brings it all down tremendously in my opinion. To many rushed situations, that diminished the over all key points in the story, and forced tear jerk situations without proper character building outside of that, to try to force an emotional pull, etc.

[War Maiden]

Akip Xof a écrit :

Also, SE stated the expansion was literally us going on an adventure, being an adventurer for once instead of just the savior of the star again. The "inconsequential wild west" part was literally the point of us going there. To be an adventurer, and see what else there was to see. That was the point of the end of endwalker, when we were told by emet how much there was still yet for us to experience in the star, even though we have come so far to the very edges of it.

Well, I did say that in another thread.
We are basically doing exactly what our best friend bade us to do:
"Seek discovery." As he certainly did. He gave us plenty of places to look, it is up to us to find them, just as he did,

[Holy Athena]

Akip Xof a écrit :

Also, SE stated the expansion was literally us going on an adventure, being an adventurer for once instead of just the savior of the star again. The "inconsequential wild west" part was literally the point of us going there. To be an adventurer, and see what else there was to see. That was the point of the end of endwalker, when we were told by emet how much there was still yet for us to experience in the star, even though we have come so far to the very edges of it.

If it was that, then yea it would of been good too.

And "just going off an an adventure" if the story was just that, also would of been good.

It's neither an adventure, or exploration.. It's a babysitting simulator tied into a rushed world vs world ShB knock off.

[Shakja]

I personally WANTED the adventure and I would've loved if they had stuck with it. No badly shoehorned-in dystopian sci-fi, just exploring Tural as a whole after being done with the rites. The golden citIES (yes, Emet spoke in plural during his EW monologue and it's a blatant retcon) could've been something completely different and the FF9 with a new reflection patch content or its own expansion. The Frankenstein plot they gave us simply doesn't work

Had they commited to the rites and given us a proper challenge beside the grooming of a new leader, the reception would've been completely different. The main character thing with Wuk Lamat would've probably not even come up, had they kept an engaging experience at the forefront, instead of their shounen plot. But the writers were intent on pushing the narrative and didn't let people PLAY THE GAME

Also, the whole tone of the writing in the second half is insulting to the player's intelligence. Things get regurgitated again and again and again and AGAIN... "Did you get the point? Do you feel bad for my massmurderer NPC yet? Do you? DO YOU? You need to care about Sphene's FEELINGS!!!"

[Akip Xof]

Holy Athena a écrit :

Akip Xof a écrit :

Also, SE stated the expansion was literally us going on an adventure, being an adventurer for once instead of just the savior of the star again. The "inconsequential wild west" part was literally the point of us going there. To be an adventurer, and see what else there was to see. That was the point of the end of endwalker, when we were told by emet how much there was still yet for us to experience in the star, even though we have come so far to the very edges of it.

If it was that, then yea it would of been good too.

And "just going off an an adventure" if the story was just that, also would of been good.

It's neither an adventure, or exploration.. It's a babysitting simulator tied into a rushed world vs world ShB knock off.

It was that. We are literally going with her to explore and enjoy the entire country. Our goal of learning and seeing more overlaps with hers of becoming a new and worthy leader. Theres even no real major tangible threat for the first half of the story, other than some hints of one, and one instance where there is a major threat but we are there so we deal with it immediately anyway.

Calling it babysitting simulator makes no logical sense. She is someone who has been sheltered, sure, but has a good heart and outlook on things, and a general idea of what she wants, but lacks the experience to refine it into something useful. We have already been on that journey for ourselves, and so we play the role as guiding helpers to steer her onto a better path to become who she wants to be. We literally see this pointed out bluntly and in our face with thancred and co with the second.

To us its an adventure and exploration. Even the "baby" we are "sitting" is also experiencing everything for the first time with us.

[Holy Athena]

Shakja a écrit :

I personally WANTED the adventure and I would've loved if they had stuck with it. No badly shoehorned-in dystopian sci-fi, just exploring Tural as a whole after being done with the rites. The golden citIES (yes, Emet spoke in plural during his EW monologue and it's a blatant retcon) could've been something completely different and the FF9 with a new reflection patch content or its own expansion. The Frankenstein plot they gave us simply doesn't work

Had they commited to the rites and given us a proper challenge beside the grooming of a new leader, the reception would've been completely different. The main character thing with Wuk Lamat would've probably not even come up, had they kept an engaging experience at the forefront, instead of their shounen plot. But the writers were intent on pushing the narrative and didn't let people PLAY THE GAME

Also, the whole tone of the writing in the second half is insulting to the player's intelligence. Things get regurgitated again and again and again and AGAIN... "Did you get the point? Do you feel bad for my massmurderer NPC yet? Do you? DO YOU? You need to care about Sphene's FEELINGS!!!"

Yup, that was another point I was gonna make, but it was already getting way too long as is..,

The fact the story kept regurgitating the same thing over and over and over... even most wasted space that could of been put in for more story elements and world building.

[rxantos]

DT can be summarized as: "The Wuk Lamat show."

[Shakja]

Holy Athena a écrit :

Shakja a écrit :

I personally WANTED the adventure and I would've loved if they had stuck with it. No badly shoehorned-in dystopian sci-fi, just exploring Tural as a whole after being done with the rites. The golden citIES (yes, Emet spoke in plural during his EW monologue and it's a blatant retcon) could've been something completely different and the FF9 with a new reflection patch content or its own expansion. The Frankenstein plot they gave us simply doesn't work

Had they commited to the rites and given us a proper challenge beside the grooming of a new leader, the reception would've been completely different. The main character thing with Wuk Lamat would've probably not even come up, had they kept an engaging experience at the forefront, instead of their shounen plot. But the writers were intent on pushing the narrative and didn't let people PLAY THE GAME

Also, the whole tone of the writing in the second half is insulting to the player's intelligence. Things get regurgitated again and again and again and AGAIN... "Did you get the point? Do you feel bad for my massmurderer NPC yet? Do you? DO YOU? You need to care about Sphene's FEELINGS!!!"

Yup, that was another point I was gonna make, but it was already getting way too long as is..,

The fact the story kept regurgitating the same thing over and over and over... even most wasted space that could of been put in for more story elements and world building.

It's a travesty, really. There was so much potential for both individual plots in Dawntrail and they just... mashed a half-assed adventure story and badly researched dystopian sci-fi with an ethically questionable message together, slapped FF9 and ShB nostalgia bait on it and called it a day
The whole thing reads like a bad OC-insert Ao3 fanfiction, written by a complete novice.

And don't even get me started on the cardboard cut-outs they made of the scions.

Also, I'm still pissed they turned G'raha into a mouthpiece for their horrible preaching. Best boy would NEVER even CONSIDER using a system that sacrifices the lives and rebirth chances of the living for keeping the incomplete memories of the dead alive in a Californian Amauroth meets Disney Land simulation

[Holy Athena]

Shakja a écrit :

Holy Athena a écrit :

Yup, that was another point I was gonna make, but it was already getting way too long as is..,

The fact the story kept regurgitating the same thing over and over and over... even most wasted space that could of been put in for more story elements and world building.

It's a travesty, really. There was so much potential for both individual plots in Dawntrail and they just... mashed a half-assed adventure story and badly researched dystopian sci-fi with an ethically questionable message together, slapped FF9 and ShB nostalgia bait on it and called it a day
The whole thing reads like a bad OC-insert Ao3 fanfiction, written by a complete novice.

And don't even get me started on the cardboard cut-outs they made of the scions.

Also, I'm still pissed they turned G'raha into a mouthpiece for their horrible preaching. Best boy would NEVER even CONSIDER using a system that sacrifices the lives and rebirth chances of the living for keeping the incomplete memories of the dead alive in a Californian Amauroth meets Disney Land simulation

Crypes you should of written my post for me lmao.

[Calandir]

Komarimaru a écrit :

Holy Athena a écrit :

no no, I completely understood all that, and know about it all.

The problem is, what Otis said, and he describes the Queen. Which is so thoughtful and loving towards people she took in refugees of enemy nation during the cataclysm.

Sphene herself also states how much she wants peace, and loves peace.. Yet.. despite her own peoples lives "hitting a limit" which is sustainable, still decides that genocidal warfare is the option just makes no sense.

While yes great energy and power is required to sustain her people... they're the ones who decided to do it this way, not other worlds, so it still breaks character, and makes no sense.

It also makes no sense, since the only limit to their situation is they cannot create new souls to continue growth, but who cares? You have a perpetual Goldilocks where nobody can die essentially, so pushing out for genocidal warfare to gain new souls is just insane and stupid from the get go.

Or perhaps you weren't the one who was paying attention? Because while Sphenes goal was always to go on genocidal rampage, my point is, that it makes no sense from the focus of any other story point, or her own character explanation and background of who she is.

And yet, we discover that the memories transfer over, yet not the logic of them. Why she is so uncanny. Her desire is to protect HER people, at any costs. Not the worlds. It was literally there from the start if paid attention in the slightest.

Common sense, why else would she align willfully with the dork lizard? Or did you forget her words at the Golden City Gates? And why a certain someones parents were trying to stop it.

Like I said, it's like you skipped over it all...

You know, it's pretty sad seeing someone so mad that someone didn't liked story. He didn't skip it, you're projecting things to discredit him.

[Akip Xof]

Erlandir a écrit :

Komarimaru a écrit :

And yet, we discover that the memories transfer over, yet not the logic of them. Why she is so uncanny. Her desire is to protect HER people, at any costs. Not the worlds. It was literally there from the start if paid attention in the slightest.

Common sense, why else would she align willfully with the dork lizard? Or did you forget her words at the Golden City Gates? And why a certain someones parents were trying to stop it.

Like I said, it's like you skipped over it all...

You know, it's pretty sad seeing someone so mad that someone didn't liked story. He didn't skip it, you're projecting things to discredit him.

Not liking the story is one thing, but stating opinions as fact and outright ignoring the story itself to make a point that isnt supported by anything in the story is something else entirely.

People dont like the expansion because it is literally what SE told us it was going to be since EW launched. Trying to make arguments about the story and writing being somehow bad by cherry picking bits of information and literally ignoring everything else isnt a supportive argument for a personal opinion.

[Shakja]

Akip Xof a écrit :

Erlandir a écrit :

You know, it's pretty sad seeing someone so mad that someone didn't liked story. He didn't skip it, you're projecting things to discredit him.

Not liking the story is one thing, but stating opinions as fact and outright ignoring the story itself to make a point that isnt supported by anything in the story is something else entirely.

People dont like the expansion because it is literally what SE told us it was going to be since EW launched. Trying to make arguments about the story and writing being somehow bad by cherry picking bits of information and literally ignoring everything else isnt a supportive argument for a personal opinion.

Face it, the writers implemented literally every writing sin in the book, from constant repetition to insulting the player's intelligence time and time again. And this is coming from someone who somewhat liked the MSQ up to level 97. The rest of this abomination of a story managed to turn me around completely until I dreaded interacting with Wuk Lamat.
If you like this sorry attempt at trying to copy FF9 and badly imitating Ishikawa's style, you're welcome to do so.
I personally want to ask the new writer's how it feels to spit in their senior's face by butchering past character and story work because they were too lazy to come up with an original story

[Holy Athena]

Shakja a écrit :

Akip Xof a écrit :

Not liking the story is one thing, but stating opinions as fact and outright ignoring the story itself to make a point that isnt supported by anything in the story is something else entirely.

People dont like the expansion because it is literally what SE told us it was going to be since EW launched. Trying to make arguments about the story and writing being somehow bad by cherry picking bits of information and literally ignoring everything else isnt a supportive argument for a personal opinion.

Face it, the writers implemented literally every writing sin in the book, from constant repetition to insulting the player's intelligence time and time again. And this is coming from someone who somewhat liked the MSQ up to level 97. The rest of this abomination of a story managed to turn me around completely until I dreaded interacting with Wuk Lamat.
If you like this sorry attempt at trying to copy FF9 and badly imitating Ishikawa's style, you're welcome to do so.
I personally want to ask the new writer's how it feels to spit in their senior's face by butchering past character and story work because they were too lazy to come up with an original story

Writing sins this story commits:

* Main Character gets super powers from nowhere, for no reason

* Personality 180 adjustments from Main Character without reason or example. (One minute she's afraid of a huge chicken, next minute she isn't.)

* Constant repetitive re telling of main story points, as if the viewer/reader has the IQ of an Acorn, and can't grasp obvious story bits, repeating the same thing over and over and over again.

* Completely ignoring, or altering past personalities and beliefs of characters, or making them act in out of character ways. (Like Gra ha not being completely appalled at what is going on with the souls, which he would have been as 1 of many examples, as well as the reactions of others towards multiple situations in the story)

* Failure to build up to main story altering bits in a meaningful way.

* Failure to create any actual character development or arcs to get players invested in the tear jerk moments.

* Rushed story bits that should of had more development were completely glossed over, while bits that didn't require much development was constantly dragged on.

* Poor writing on main character, with many inconsistencies.

Not sure if I missed any, but this list is already way waaaaay longer than it should be...

[Leanna]

Akip Xof a écrit :

People dont like the expansion because it is literally what SE told us it was going to be since EW launched.

SE said the MSQ was going to be a vacation, it is absolutely not a vacation, they said they would rework classes, now they say this will happen in 8.0.

Dawntrail was cooked for 3 years, longer than the average 2 and I'm here wondering where did that developing time go because we still have no new unique and completely original glamours, the writing quality is Chat GPT/Novel AI.

The only change is that they decided to no longer obviously telegraph boss mechanics so you need to get hit to learn them. Is this what SE spent 3 years on? Figuring out to not telegraph attacks?

[Komarimaru]

Leanna a écrit :

Akip Xof a écrit :

People dont like the expansion because it is literally what SE told us it was going to be since EW launched.

SE said the MSQ was going to be a vacation, it is absolutely not a vacation, they said they would rework classes, now they say this will happen in 8.0.

Dawntrail was cooked for 3 years, longer than the average 2 and I'm here wondering where did that developing time go because we still have no new unique and completely original glamours, the writing quality is Chat GPT/Novel AI.

The only change is that they decided to no longer obviously telegraph boss mechanics so you need to get hit to learn them. Is this what SE spent 3 years on? Figuring out to not telegraph attacks?

Last I checked, no job remakes were announced for 7.0 Got a link to said statement?

And if having trouble on a bosses mechanics, this is odd as well. Their seems to be more of them, but all of them have been telegraphed for me. Which boss gave you issues?

[Ryan]

Clearly Yoshi had been watching Black Mirror on Netflix or maybe it was Dr WHO.
This expansion has been one big joke.
Jobs play the same, the dialogue is cringe, the story is LUL worthy and the graphics update, what graphics update?
One word to sum up this expansion, Lazytrail.