The Good, The Bad, and the Wuk Lamat

[Stinky]

Here, hold the leash of this Hrothgar princess and you get no say in it. Enjoy the history of Tural and the richness of the peoples' culture while you have to hold the leash of this Hrothgar princess. Enjoy the people you aid along the way alongside your fellow ex-scions while holding the leash of this Hrothgar princess. Find more of what the ones before, Allagan, Ascian, or of Tural, have left as their mark in history while holding the leash of this Hrothgar princess. Reminisce about better expansions while holding the leash of this Hrothgar princess. Aid the Hrothgar princess in becoming Dawnservant of Tural although the literal better option is not an option for you. Did you remember to hold the leash of the Hrothgar princess? No? There she goes being an absolute failure at even the most of basic, now go and pamper her and tell her she's doing a great job. Oh, you're also losing the race, better to pick up the pace to win. Here, hold the leash of this Hrothgar princess and you get no say in it.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Sayo:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

"Replaced"?

People weren't too fond of Yda to Lyse. I wasn't either really. But if you can look past that, Lyse is a wonderful character.

Calling it "replacement" just seems really odd to me given the nature of the reveal. I remember feeling stricken hard by it, but I loved where it went.

[Sayo]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Sayo:

People weren't too fond of Yda to Lyse. I wasn't either really. But if you can look past that, Lyse is a wonderful character.

Calling it "replacement" just seems really odd to me given the nature of the reveal. I remember feeling stricken hard by it, but I loved where it went.

I would call it a replacement. They're basically two different characters. Though I think Lyse is far better. Yda was one half of a comedy duo.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Sayo:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Calling it "replacement" just seems really odd to me given the nature of the reveal. I remember feeling stricken hard by it, but I loved where it went.

I would call it a replacement. They're basically two different characters. Though I think Lyse is far better. Yda was one half of a comedy duo.

I agree honestly. And I kinda wish that fan reaction to the other big thing that happened there hadn't made Squeenix so gunshy about killing off major characters for so long. Don't think they overcame that until Shadowbringer.

[Haru]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Teemo Teemosson:

Lyse is hot and voiced by a woman.

People still hated her because she was a poorly written character that replaced a beloved character from 1.0 and ARR.

"Replaced"?

"Hi. I was pretending to be my dead sister this entire time! But we're still friends, right!?"

/dresses and talks entirely differently from that revelation onwards.

All they had to do was give Yda some character development, and keep her name as Yda. Instead it's as if they just really wanted to not only kill of Papalymo, but also retcon Yda in-universe.

It's was fkin' weird.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Haru:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

"Replaced"?

"Hi. I was pretending to be my dead sister this entire time! But we're still friends, right!?"

/dresses and talks entirely differently from that revelation onwards.

All they had to do was give Yda some character development, and keep her name as Yda. Instead it's as if they just really wanted to not only kill of Papalymo, but also retcon Yda in-universe.

It's was fkin' weird.

Everybody started dressing differently around that time, and the nature of the expansion we were heading into would have done a fine enough job explaining the change in behavior regardless. I don't really see why it was weird, either - people cope with trauma in all kinds of weird ways. It might have been an overly complicated bit of characterization, sure, but it never struck me as unrealistic.

[Haru]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Haru:

"Hi. I was pretending to be my dead sister this entire time! But we're still friends, right!?"

/dresses and talks entirely differently from that revelation onwards.

All they had to do was give Yda some character development, and keep her name as Yda. Instead it's as if they just really wanted to not only kill of Papalymo, but also retcon Yda in-universe.

It's was fkin' weird.

Everybody started dressing differently around that time, and the nature of the expansion we were heading into would have done a fine enough job explaining the change in behavior regardless. I don't really see why it was weird, either - people cope with trauma in all kinds of weird ways. It might have been an overly complicated bit of characterization, sure, but it never struck me as unrealistic.

There's a difference between wearing a new coat and pretending to be a different person entirely to cope with trauma over something that's never been revealed until just that specific moment they decide it's needed. From a narrative perspective, it screams lazy retcon. It was not part of some greater character arc for Yda, because they wanted to get rid of Yda entirely.

If Thancred suddenly pulls off a face mask he's been wearing and reveals that he's in fact, Dave, I'm going to find that weird too, regardless of the reasons. it's silly.

It would maybe be a different story if it had been foreshadowed in any meaningful way, but it never was, because it was never intended. It was spur of the moment lazy writing, because it's easier to introduce a new character than it is to develop an existing one.

[Kenuty]

I'am getting death flag alerts,
In before they kill off wuk lamat

MAKE IT HAPPEN SQUARE

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Haru:

There's a difference between wearing a new coat and pretending to be a different person entirely to cope with trauma over something that's never been revealed until just that specific moment they decide it's needed. From a narrative perspective, it screams lazy retcon. It was not part of some greater character arc for Yda, because they wanted to get rid of Yda entirely.

Claiming it's not part of a greater character arc is kind of disingenuous, it was the biggest bit of character development she got, and she was a better character after it, in my opinion. She was, as was pointed out, really a comic relief character up until that point.

Sidenote, I think that Lyse's outfit between dropping the Yda persona and donning the robes of royalty was actually the best outfit she had. It still kept the leg armor but built around it instead of having it be such a weird, stand-out part of her look that otherwise didn't fit at all.

Originally posted by Haru:

If Thancred suddenly pulls off a face mask he's been wearing and reveals that he's in fact, Dave, I'm going to find that weird too, regardless of the reasons. it's silly.

I mean, he's been well-characterized and had enough of his backstory revealed that yeah, that would be a more egregious thing to happen if it did.

Originally posted by Haru:

It would maybe be a different story if it had been foreshadowed in any meaningful way, but it never was, because it was never intended. It was spur of the moment lazy writing, because it's easier to introduce a new character than it is to develop an existing one.

You might be right, might being the operative word. But it doesn't matter in the end, because it was part of a massive tone shift, no matter how much you disliked it, there are still a good chunk of players who felt she was better for the change, me included.

[Teemo Teemosson]

Originally posted by Holy Athena:

Originally posted by Caz:

It's never been like this. We have walked BESIDE companions and champions and heroes. But we've never had to babysit one for entire MSQ.

Lyse, but it wasn't this bad, and you were actually attached to them because they been around for a long time, and had reason to be helping them.

Lyse was only around for the 3.x patches. She is a fundamentally different character than her 1.0 and ARR version.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Kenuty:

I'am getting death flag alerts,
In before they kill off wuk lamat

MAKE IT HAPPEN SQUARE

Petty and toxic behavior imo.

[Kenuty]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Kenuty:

I'am getting death flag alerts,
In before they kill off wuk lamat

MAKE IT HAPPEN SQUARE

Petty and toxic behavior imo.

how exactly is killing off a character toxic?
it can happen through the story, thats how it works, make people hate a character,at the same time get a bit use to to it, give it screen time and then kill em off to make them regret.

works in plenty of anime and movies. That's the magic of story writing, go read a book in your life. Lol it's toxic because it doesn't go your way.

[Haru]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Haru:

There's a difference between wearing a new coat and pretending to be a different person entirely to cope with trauma over something that's never been revealed until just that specific moment they decide it's needed. From a narrative perspective, it screams lazy retcon. It was not part of some greater character arc for Yda, because they wanted to get rid of Yda entirely.

Claiming it's not part of a greater character arc is kind of disingenuous, it was the biggest bit of character development she got, and she was a better character after it, in my opinion. She was, as was pointed out, really a comic relief character up until that point.

Sidenote, I think that Lyse's outfit between dropping the Yda persona and donning the robes of royalty was actually the best outfit she had. It still kept the leg armor but built around it instead of having it be such a weird, stand-out part of her look that otherwise didn't fit at all.

Originally posted by Haru:

If Thancred suddenly pulls off a face mask he's been wearing and reveals that he's in fact, Dave, I'm going to find that weird too, regardless of the reasons. it's silly.

I mean, he's been well-characterized and had enough of his backstory revealed that yeah, that would be a more egregious thing to happen if it did.

Originally posted by Haru:

It would maybe be a different story if it had been foreshadowed in any meaningful way, but it never was, because it was never intended. It was spur of the moment lazy writing, because it's easier to introduce a new character than it is to develop an existing one.

You might be right, might being the operative word. But it doesn't matter in the end, because it was part of a massive tone shift, no matter how much you disliked it, there are still a good chunk of players who felt she was better for the change, me included.

It wasn't character development, lol. It was character deletion. In a meta sense, Lyse's 'Yda' persona (until that point, actually Yda, from 1.0 until that point), was all supposed to be a cope act, for that length of time, and then uno reverso haha! She was never Yda! She's some chick called Lyse who had this sister we've literally never heard about. Okay.

You can like the character better, sure. I've grown to tolerate Lyse over time, though, I think it's pretty telling that they rarely if ever include her in the story nowadays. It's still one of the laziest and contrived pieces of writing in the entire story.

[Haru]

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Originally posted by Kenuty:

I'am getting death flag alerts,
In before they kill off wuk lamat

MAKE IT HAPPEN SQUARE

Petty and toxic behavior imo.

This is why characters never die anymore.

:/

[Kenuty]

Originally posted by Haru:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Petty and toxic behavior imo.

This is why characters never die anymore.

:/

Right? because of the new gen of weak hearts thinking the world is all rainbows and sunshine, they should go over to other countries in the world and be glad this is all just a story. It can take any direction and should. I think it might becuase japan is still sane.

[Moonlight Knight]

Originally posted by Kenuty:

Originally posted by Moonlight Knight:

Petty and toxic behavior imo.

how exactly is killing off a character toxic?
it can happen through the story, thats how it works, make people hate a character,at the same time get a bit use to to it, give it screen time and then kill em off to make them regret.

works in plenty of anime and movies. That's the magic of story writing, go read a book in your life. Lol it's toxic because it doesn't go your way.

It's toxic to beg for the studio to kill the character because you don't like them.