Played 100 hours so far, why is there no variety?

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

I don't know if it's an Eastern thing or Final Fantasy thing but there's something that's..weird for me. I think it has to do with the very "samey" aspect of stats and combat

For example, I made it out of Gridania and a few levels outside of the Limsa area plus MSQ. Got some good gear, equipped it, realized that my stats have increased beforehand.

So apparently your character stats go up automatically without you having any say in what you put points in. Gear wise, so far I have only come across gear that puts points into your class stat. Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

In terms of combat, there is absolutely zero versatility. Every class I've tried basically has one rotation, and you do it over. and over. and over. and over. Not to mention most people in dungeons verbally speak up in chat if you decide to do something that isn't the same rotation

Lastly, not a fan of the fact that you can play every class on a single character. You're never unique, all you do is switch instantly to another class and you're good to go.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

Because it would be objectively inferior.

They're preventing you from from creating a scenario in which you show up for group content wearing gear with a bunch of weird stats on it that don't benefit your job, then your party members ask wtf your gear is, you reply with something that amounts to "i'm trying out an unorthodox build because i'm quirky" and then they kick you.

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

In terms of combat, there is absolutely zero versatility. Every class I've tried basically has one rotation, and you do it over. and over. and over. and over. Not to mention most people in dungeons verbally speak up in chat if you decide to do something that isn't the same rotation

This is true in all MMOs. It's just made clear to you when you're playing a job incorrectly in XIV. Somehow people still manage it.

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Lastly, not a fan of the fact that you can play every class on a single character. You're never unique, all you do is switch instantly to another class and you're good to go.

Play a different game then I guess. Most people have an army of alts in games that lock you into a particular race/class, so you'll slowly realise that the same thing applies there anyway.

Choice in MMOs is generally an illusion. XIV just removes the incorrect "choices".

[causality]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

Because it would be objectively inferior.

They're preventing you from from creating a scenerio in which you show up for group content wearing gear with a bunch of weird stats on it that don't benefit your job, then your party members ask wtf your gear is, you reply with something that amounts to "i'm trying out an unorthodox build because i'm quirky" and then they kick you.

Need dex on my tank to maximize threat per second and mitigation.

Oh wrong game.

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

Because it would be objectively inferior.

They're preventing you from from creating a scenerio in which you show up for group content wearing gear with a bunch of weird stats on it that don't benefit your job, then your party members ask wtf your gear is, you reply with something that amounts to "i'm trying out an unorthodox build because i'm quirky" and then they kick you.

See, that's a big issue right there. God forbid I try to do something different without people in my party wanting to kick me most of the time. Do they not ever get tired of the same sequence of button mashing without fail?

Also, there is no way to incorrectly play a class..you should be able to play the way you want without others criticizing you

I don't want to play a different game, I just want to know why its so abnormal feeling. I come from ESO where its the polar opposite and almost everything is viable if you put your mind to it. I started FF14 and its throwing all of that 8 years of training out the window lol

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

See, that's a big issue right there. God forbid I try to do something different without people in my party wanting to kick me most of the time. Do they not ever get tired of the same sequence of button mashing without fail?

Also, there is no way to incorrectly play a class..you should be able to play the way you want without others criticizing you

I don't want to play a different game, I just want to know why its so abnormal feeling. I come from ESO where its the polar opposite and almost everything is viable if you put your mind to it. I started FF14 and its throwing all of that 8 years of training out the window lol

There is 1 correct way to play each job. That's just how they're designed. There is playing your job as intended and there is griefing.

Like I said before, this is the case in other tab target MMOs too. The correct rotation is just made more clear in XIV.

ESO is literally the perfect example of why XIV is like this. You can play different builds in casual content where nothing matters but you can also lock yourself out of group content by not making the correct choice. XIV just prevents that from happening by making the correct choice for you.

If you want to play however you like without being criticised for sandbagging, I would recommend a singleplayer game. When your choices affect other people, those people are well within their rights to have opinions about your choices.

[¿¡Kloey!?²]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

So apparently your character stats go up automatically without you having any say in what you put points in. Gear wise, so far I have only come across gear that puts points into your class stat. Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

The issue with this is the fact that there are some dungeons and missions that have damage checks where you are supposed to deal with threats before they go off or risk someone dying or your party wiping and starting over that fight from the beginning. If every single person in a party is doing an 'unorthodox' build you run the risk of either having content be too easy for optimized builds so that jank ones can work or waste minutes upon minutes of yours and other people's time because a handful of people wanted to do something weird like maximize their piety on a DPS so their second wind can heal them to full in the one scenario out of a hundred where it may come up and you don't have the damage necessary or go through cycles needlessly putting more stress on the healer and tank to keep things together.

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

In terms of combat, there is absolutely zero versatility. Every class I've tried basically has one rotation, and you do it over. and over. and over. and over. Not to mention most people in dungeons verbally speak up in chat if you decide to do something that isn't the same rotation

It sounds like you are still in the early game so yes, early game it teaches you base rotations to get into the habit of how to play and slowly but surely as you level up you will get more buttons and mechanics to manage. Sure there is still a 'rotation' but at higher and difficult levels trying to manage your rotation and your jobs quirks while also trying to do mechanics of the dungeon/raid/boss/whatever can be very overwhelming, especially when a single mistake can put your team behind or outright be a wipe in certain circumstances.

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Lastly, not a fan of the fact that you can play every class on a single character. You're never unique, all you do is switch instantly to another class and you're good to go.

This is a non issue and is- if anything a quality of life that all MMOs should have adopted a long time ago. Instead of having 2-5 characters, the ability to swap instantly and have everything on one character for ease of access is in no way a detriment. Your 'uniqueness' comes from how you decide to play and design your character. If you WANT to have different characters with each one having a different job and going through the incredibly long main story quest for each one then more power to you as the game still allows you to do that. But please don't paint a quality of life as something negative when all it does it makes it convenient and doesn't feel like you wasted a WHOLE character if you end up not liking the class/job you invested however much time in.

Edit: My b, didn't read you had 100 hours in as I am still tired. I still stand by my points though as I don't know what your highest level class is.

[Alternity]

It's for balancing, as simple as that. Every single job are viable for end game content because of these design decisions.

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

See, that's a big issue right there. God forbid I try to do something different without people in my party wanting to kick me most of the time. Do they not ever get tired of the same sequence of button mashing without fail?

Also, there is no way to incorrectly play a class..you should be able to play the way you want without others criticizing you

I don't want to play a different game, I just want to know why its so abnormal feeling. I come from ESO where its the polar opposite and almost everything is viable if you put your mind to it. I started FF14 and its throwing all of that 8 years of training out the window lol

There is 1 correct way to play each job. That's just how they're designed. There is playing your job as intended and there is griefing.

Like I said before, this is the case in other tab target MMOs too. The correct rotation is just made more clear in XIV.

ESO is literally the perfect example of why XIV is like this. You can play different builds in casual content where nothing matters but you can also lock yourself out of group content by not making the correct choice. XIV just prevents that from happening by making the correct choice for you.

If you want to play however you like without being criticised for sandbagging, I would recommend a singleplayer game. When your choices affect other people, those people are well within their rights to have opinions about your choices.

I understand what you're saying but you're not giving me enough credit lol. I don't run the totally worthless builds like the casuals have and I'm not that guy who drags down the team with the weird quirks

In ESO yes there's a ton of casuals now who don't give a crap about anything, but there are actually a ton of viable sets for a single role/class. A lot of them are oddly niche yet kick major ass, some ones that are made for PVP do extremely well in PVE, etc.

For example, there is one gear set where if you are attacked by an enemy with a stun (its an anti-ganking set), you get healed a crap ton. If you play as a damage dealer in a high lvl dungeon with this set, you could very well be a tank depending on the dungeon and boss

I haven't played enough of FF14 raiding/dungeons to see what the real experience is like, I've done maybe 10-12 total but they were the exact same thing each time (I am lancer who turned into Dragoon). It looks like each class is designed for a very specific role and theres like 30 classes, is that why the rotations are so strict? I think I'm getting the hang of it now

[Alternity]

There is only one way to play each class when it comes to achieving the highest DPS possible, which is required for end game content as these fights are essentially DPS checks.

[FreshMint]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Choice in MMOs is generally an illusion. XIV just removes the incorrect "choices".

Agreed.
It could certainly be possible to start offering different flavors of jobs but unless you want to allow people to make the 'incorrect choice' you'd just end up picking between two different rotations that would need their own identity (at which point it may as well just be a different job), so the question is wether that's worth doing.

And what goes for these kinds of co-op multiplayer games with matchmaking in general; A general balancing issue lies in how it would suck to have either players in your party making these "bad decisions" or if your preferred job was less viable than others.

These kinds of things are better fit for roguelikes (i.e. Gunfire Reborn) or games you can easily just play on your own (like singleplayer rpgs) or with a small group of people.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

There is 1 correct way to play each job. That's just how they're designed. There is playing your job as intended and there is griefing.

Like I said before, this is the case in other tab target MMOs too. The correct rotation is just made more clear in XIV.

ESO is literally the perfect example of why XIV is like this. You can play different builds in casual content where nothing matters but you can also lock yourself out of group content by not making the correct choice. XIV just prevents that from happening by making the correct choice for you.

If you want to play however you like without being criticised for sandbagging, I would recommend a singleplayer game. When your choices affect other people, those people are well within their rights to have opinions about your choices.

I understand what you're saying but you're not giving me enough credit lol. I don't run the totally worthless builds like the casuals have and I'm not that guy who drags down the team with the weird quirks

In ESO yes there's a ton of casuals now who don't give a crap about anything, but there are actually a ton of viable sets for a single role/class. A lot of them are oddly niche yet kick major ass, some ones that are made for PVP do extremely well in PVE, etc.

For example, there is one gear set where if you are attacked by an enemy with a stun (its an anti-ganking set), you get healed a crap ton. If you play as a damage dealer in a high lvl dungeon with this set, you could very well be a tank depending on the dungeon and boss

I haven't played enough of FF14 raiding/dungeons to see what the real experience is like, I've done maybe 10-12 total but they were the exact same thing each time (I am lancer who turned into Dragoon). It looks like each class is designed for a very specific role and theres like 30 classes, is that why the rotations are so strict? I think I'm getting the hang of it now

XIV can be a difficult "sell" because you need to put a lot of hours in to reach the higher levels, but the combat system does become a lot more engaging at higher levels as your rotation becomes more complex and the fight designs become more modern.

If you get to lvl 70 and try out some of the raids and whatnot and still don't feel like you enjoy it, then it probably isn't for you.

The rotations will remain strict. "Strict" is exactly the word that I would use and that will never change, but the rotation itself will become a lot more engaging.

[Scarsick]

All I can say is the game is not for you. I don't know if it's a 14 thing, because this is the only FF game I ever played, but if you want stuff like builds and different playstyles you need to look somewhere else.

As for being able to play every class on a single character, that's how the game is designed to be, since there's no way for alts to skip MSQ unless you pay for it.

[Gilderoy Lockhart]

Originally posted by Scarsick:

All I can say is the game is not for you. I don't know if it's a 14 thing, because this is the only FF game I ever played, but if you want stuff like builds and different playstyles you need to look somewhere else.

As for being able to play every class on a single character, that's how the game is designed to be, since there's no way for alts to skip MSQ unless you pay for it.

No the game is for me, I just had trouble understanding it at first but now I think I get it. In all the other games I played, you would pick different builds in classes. But here, this is done through the amount of classes and each one does a very specific job (or so it seems, i have only done lancer and dragoon so far)

I heard red mage is a cool hybrid that starts at lvl 60 or something, where you can both do damage and have the ability to revive people. Also what is the deal with blue mage? It sounds like a weird class with all these restrictions and I don't get it

[¿¡Kloey!?²]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Originally posted by Scarsick:

All I can say is the game is not for you. I don't know if it's a 14 thing, because this is the only FF game I ever played, but if you want stuff like builds and different playstyles you need to look somewhere else.

As for being able to play every class on a single character, that's how the game is designed to be, since there's no way for alts to skip MSQ unless you pay for it.

No the game is for me, I just had trouble understanding it at first but now I think I get it. In all the other games I played, you would pick different builds in classes. But here, this is done through the amount of classes and each one does a very specific job (or so it seems, i have only done lancer and dragoon so far)

I heard red mage is a cool hybrid that starts at lvl 60 or something, where you can both do damage and have the ability to revive people. Also what is the deal with blue mage? It sounds like a weird class with all these restrictions and I don't get it

Blue Mage is kind of a meme class. The point of blue mage is that you use skills that you learn firsthand from monsters. However because there's no guarantee as to what a blue mage could have since they have to go out of their way to actually learn those skills, they are very restricted in what they can participate in.

But yeah I didn't understand what you meant by builds but you basically got it with how the classes work.

[MOSLEY]

Blue mage is side content. It's mainly used for grinding FATEs or completing content in blue mage only groups for various achievements. I think it's fun but it can't be your main job.

RDM isn't really a hybrid class. It's a pure damage dealer that has the ability to raise if the healers have burned their swiftcasts and there are still people who need to be revived. As a damage dealer, the party loses more damage if you raise instead of dealing damage rather than a healer doing the same. Ideally the healers should be raising, but if people die while the healer's swiftcast is on cooldown then a RDM can pick up the slack and raise to avoid them having to spend 7.5 seconds hardcasting a raise.

Hybrids don't really exist in XIV. Every job is a damage dealer.

Tanks deal damage, draw aggro and mitigate damage.

Healers deal damage, heal people up, provide damage buffs in some cases and raise dead players.

Damage dealers deal damage, provide damage buffs in some cases, and provide utility in some cases although preferably not at the expense of dealing damage.

You might enjoy dancer. Dancer has a few oGCD heals that it can put out freely without sacrificing damage, its rotation is more based around procs and a priority system and it has buffs that should be put out to boost the party's damage during burst windows.

DNC is still strict in that it puts its buffs out on cooldown every 2 minutes and should aim to store procs to spend under buff windows, but the priority system and procs make it feel a bit more dynamic.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

So apparently your character stats go up automatically without you having any say in what you put points in.

We used to have 30 points that we could put in Str, Dex, Vit, Int, Mnd or Piety. But it was useless since main stat is king.

Originally posted by Soldier Boy:

Why can't I wear gear that lets you main another stat I may want to try out?

You can below Lv50, but what do you want to try out?

Originally posted by causality:

Need dex on my tank to maximize threat per second and mitigation.
Oh wrong game. :cuphead:

You need Dex to maximize parry on Warrior, otherwise dungeons will be difficult(Amdapor Keep, Wanderer's Palace for Philosophy/Mythology tomestone farm) let alone BCoB T1 with that paper tank.