How many people are actually using mods?

[Popcorn]

So many screenshots around here or on twitter are showing characters who've been altered so much and don't even look close to the original design of the game. There's even subreddits just for people who are modding - and there's not just a few people in there.

How many people are actually modding in this game? How BIG is the modding scene? Is everyone seeing their characters differently than I am with using no mods at all?

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by Giganx:

Downloading the actual mod software isn't done in-game; ACT, for example, has it's own website with a download tracker. The number it shows is based on clicks, not ACT updates.

ACT isn't a mod.

Dalamud is a mod loader, once you have that installed, Damalud has an in-game interface which lets you download mods directly from in-game.

ACT is a parser with an ingame display, so it's a UI mod.

As for Dalamud; I haven't seen how it works, but it's ingame display likely links to their own web server and tracks clicks the same as any website would. I'm not sure why you think it would track updates as unique downloads. No tracker works like that.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Alternity:

ACT isn't a mod.

Dalamud is a mod loader, once you have that installed, Damalud has an in-game interface which lets you download mods directly from in-game.

ACT is a parser with an ingame display, so it's a UI mod.

As for Dalamud; I haven't seen how it works but it's ingame display likely links to their own servers and tracks clicks the same as any website would. I'm not sure why you think it would track updates and downloads.

Just looked this up via youtube. This is false for ACT. From what I've seen in the video, you need to get an overlay plugin for ACT. ACT itself does not come with it.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Alternity:

ACT isn't a mod.

Dalamud is a mod loader, once you have that installed, Damalud has an in-game interface which lets you download mods directly from in-game.

ACT is a parser with an ingame display, so it's a UI mod.

The display is not in-game, it's just a window you can place whever you want on your PC, it can run independently from the game, since it also lets you browse saved logs. Mod is short for modification, ACT doesn't touch the game at all other than reading memory while you're playing, which again, is not a modification.

Originally posted by Giganx:

As for Dalamud; I haven't seen how it works but it's ingame display likely links to their own servers and tracks clicks the same as any website would. I'm not sure why you think it would track updates and downloads.

It most likely tracks github downloads, and if it has its own counter, you still have to click in the Dalamud UI to update the mods. Either way, they are counted. I can't see of a way for them to differentiate an update or a redownload from a new download.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Yürei:

Originally posted by Giganx:

ACT is a parser with an ingame display, so it's a UI mod.

As for Dalamud; I haven't seen how it works but it's ingame display likely links to their own servers and tracks clicks the same as any website would. I'm not sure why you think it would track updates and downloads.

Just looked this up via youtube. This is false for ACT. From what I've seen in the video, you need to get an overlay plugin for ACT. ACT itself does not come with it.

It needing a plugin to function as an ingame parser doesn't change the fact that it's a UI mod. You're splitting hairs.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Yürei:

Just looked this up via youtube. This is false for ACT. From what I've seen in the video, you need to get an overlay plugin for ACT. ACT itself does not come with it.

It needing a plugin to function as an ingame parser doesn't change the fact that it's a UI mod. You're splitting hairs.

My guy, the same video showed Catabot on that list. Why do we consider Catabot and ACT separate then? The point is that ACT is a tool that grabs info from the game and then forwards it to the overlay plugin that you need to download.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Seraphita:

Originally posted by Alternity:

What crosses the cheating line will be different for everyone. For me it's getting information you shouldn't be getting, or getting it quicker than you should. That TOP scandal was a good example. The zoom hack was what everyone was talking about but the zoom hack itself isn't a big problem, it's essentially the same as having an ultra-wide monitor, the actual problem was seeing telegraphs for untelegraphed stuff, and huaving all sorts of markers in the game telling you what to do and where to go.

So let's say that someone has a mod that shows what amount of shield you have, you'd consider this cheating? I mean, we know for certain that the amount of shields always appear on party list window but if it were to appear on your own HP bar, seems QOL.

I do believe that, logically speaking, mods are pretty harmless if used correctly. But yes, when it allows an objective advantage over someone is when it might be too much. If you have a way to see attacks coming beyond the scope of what 14 lets you see, it's bad.

I wouldn't really care about that. I only care about meaningful information, such as boss mechanics.

I'll give you an example. Buff and debuff timers in the party list didn't used to be in the game, but there was a mod for that. Most sane people agreed that knowing the timers of your buffs and debuff listed in your party list, alongside your teammates which technically the only way to get that information back then was to select a party member, was not cheating, it was a QoL. Some people thought it was cheating, albeat a small amount of people, but most people thought this should be in the game. They finally added it in the game.

Cactbot for me is a grey area. It gives you callouts, which inherently isn't really a bad thing, but it does it relatively often much sooner than when you'd see the mechanic. I'd be more cool with Cactbot if it was tweaked to be a fair timing, giving the callout when it is humanly possible to determine what is happening by looking at the screen rather than calling it out as soon as Cactbot sees it in memory, so that it is much closer to a human doing callouts.

But if we're talking about those paid mods that shows you stuff that you literally should not know at all, things that you have to think and process to solve, that's straight out cheating and I don't think anyone would disagree.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by Seraphita:

Originally posted by Yürei:

My guy, the same video showed Catabot on that list. Why do we consider Catabot and ACT separate then? The point is that ACT is a tool that grabs info from the game and then forwards it to the overlay plugin that you need to download.

Um. Just so we're clear. I checked the ACT website and it doesn't mention any of that. But it might use dalamud? Or something else...? I know there are plugins on the website but I did not see any that was related to an overlay. Dalamud itself IS the overlay, right?

I'm not sure ACT or Dalamud are connected in any way. From what I saw in a screenshot on google, it appears to be an overlay that you install mods? I'm not 100% sure since I only saw one.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Yürei:

Just looked this up via youtube. This is false for ACT. From what I've seen in the video, you need to get an overlay plugin for ACT. ACT itself does not come with it.

It needing a plugin to function as an ingame parser doesn't change the fact that it's a UI mod. You're splitting hairs.

It needs a plugin for every games, ACT is not FFXIV specific, it just doesn't come natively with the code to work with every games. It's not a plugin to hook to FFXIV, it's just the code required for it to know how to read FFXIV.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Yürei:

Originally posted by Giganx:

It needing a plugin to function as an ingame parser doesn't change the fact that it's a UI mod. You're splitting hairs.

My guy, the same video showed Catabot on that list. Why do we consider Catabot and ACT separate then? The point is that ACT is a tool that grabs info from the game and then forwards it to the overlay plugin that you need to download.

If ACT really is just a general purpose overlay hub then fair enough, it's not technically a FFXIV mod.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Alternity:

It most likely tracks github downloads, and if it has its own counter, you still have to click in the Dalamud UI to update the mods. Either way, they are counted. I can't see of a way for them to differentiate an update or a redownload from a new download.

Does Dalamud update your mods automatically? Are there separate buttons for download and update? There's a lot of ways they can differentiate an update from a fresh download; basically the same ways every site does it.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Yürei:

My guy, the same video showed Catabot on that list. Why do we consider Catabot and ACT separate then? The point is that ACT is a tool that grabs info from the game and then forwards it to the overlay plugin that you need to download.

If ACT really is just a general purpose overlay hub then fair enough, it's not technically a FFXIV mod.

Yea, apparently it works with EQ2, The Secret world, SWTOR, Aion, and Age of Conan. Probably more, but that is all I see on their page.

[Yes]

Originally posted by Yürei:

Originally posted by Giganx:

If ACT really is just a general purpose overlay hub then fair enough, it's not technically a FFXIV mod.

Yea, apparently it works with EQ2, The Secret world, SWTOR, Aion, and Age of Conan. Probably more, but that is all I see on their page.

Its essentially a third party program you can tweak and code for whatever game/purpose you want it to, It's only relevance in this discussion is that its used for ffxiv.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Alternity:

It most likely tracks github downloads, and if it has its own counter, you still have to click in the Dalamud UI to update the mods. Either way, they are counted. I can't see of a way for them to differentiate an update or a redownload from a new download.

Does Dalamud update your mods automatically? Are there separate buttons for download and update? There's a lot of ways they can differentiate an update from a fresh download; basically the same ways every site does it.

Even if it did, it's moot point to argue. 4.5mil downloads of one mod when the second place is 1.8mil shows that it is far from the majority of players that uses mods, and even less when it comes to raiding considering these 2 mods aren't really raid related. The first mod I see that is raid related when I sort by download count is an Engage Timer mod, which has 500k downloads, and that isn't something I would consider cheating.

[Yürei]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by Giganx:

Does Dalamud update your mods automatically? Are there separate buttons for download and update? There's a lot of ways they can differentiate an update from a fresh download; basically the same ways every site does it.

Even if it did, it's moot point to argue. 4.5mil downloads of one mod when the second place is 1.8mil shows that it is far from the majority of players that uses mods, and even less when it comes to raiding considering these 2 mods aren't really raid related. The first mod I see that is raid related when I sort by download count is an Enrage Timer mod, which has 500k downloads, and that isn't something I would consider cheating.

I suppose the easiest way to see if it does count updates is to see if the download counter resets after an update happens.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by Giganx:

Does Dalamud update your mods automatically? Are there separate buttons for download and update? There's a lot of ways they can differentiate an update from a fresh download; basically the same ways every site does it.

Even if it did, it's moot point to argue. 4.5mil downloads of one mod when the second place is 1.8mil shows that it is far from the majority of players that uses mods, and even less when it comes to raiding considering these 2 mods aren't really raid related. The first mod I see that is raid related when I sort by download count is an Engage Timer mod, which has 500k downloads, and that isn't something I would consider cheating.

It's all relative. Even in WoW I'd argue that most of the people who play the game don't use mods; but enough serious raiders do use them for it to be a significant factor in the raid scene. There isn't really anything preventing mods from having a similar impact in this game, and those numbers aren't insignificant.