Why does this game keep locking things behind dead content?

[Giganx]

I wanted to get the Scion portraits for my house, but apparently the last part of the questline is locked behind the level 60 Alliance raids that no one ever queues for.

Every time they lock new content behind old ♥♥♥♥ content that no one wants to run anymore it just makes the new content inaccessible. Are the developers brain damaged?

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Artos:

Originally posted by Giganx:

The problem isn't that a low population server exists, the problem is that this game structures it's content in a way that can't support low populations. Dynamis might fill up on Dawntrails release the same way Crystal did with Shadowbringer. It wouldn't matter that Dynamis is having a slow start if this game handled it's content better; but the "lock everything behind everything else" system is just incompetent.

Its an mmo game that requires players to play... Its not surprising... Content is centred around other players but they are aware older content will eventually be more and more difficult to play. Duty Support/Trust is a perfect example of them acknowledging that issue becoming a problem in future... What else do you want? Its not a band aid it's an actual solution that is constantly being expanded. They just need time to program/test all those AI to react to the mechanics of the Bosses... You really can't anymore use it as an excuse to ♥♥♥♥ on them when they are actively working on it. In the same time they work on new expansions and making sure all future MSQ content can be played with Trust system...

If they duty support everything then problem solved, but we don't even know if they plan on extending this to trials or Alliance Raids.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

I mean, they could honestly just make the story mandatory but let you skip the actual group content for the trials/dungeons and just watch the cinematics.

This game got popular on the strength of it's story and lore/world, not by creating these artificial barriers that prevent people from making progress.

thus, duty support as a solution. get content, skip group.

Originally posted by Giganx:

If they duty support everything then problem solved, but we don't even know if they plan on extending this to trials or Alliance Raids.

So you think it more logical that they'll revamp the entirety of their content delivery system, rather than simply expanding on the solution that already exists?

Or do you think they'll just do nothing and watch, scratching their heads while not implementing the already proven strategy?

The 'what if' already has a very obvious solution. Since it's still a what if, it's not a problem that the obvious solution isn't in play yet. Much as we don't "know" that Duty Support will be implemented, we don't "know" that the population will ever die. Both are, however, very safe assumptions.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

I mean, they could honestly just make the story mandatory but let you skip the actual group content for the trials/dungeons and just watch the cinematics.

This game got popular on the strength of it's story and lore/world, not by creating these artificial barriers that prevent people from making progress.

thus, duty support as a solution. get content, skip group.

Originally posted by Giganx:

If they duty support everything then problem solved, but we don't even know if they plan on extending this to trials or Alliance Raids.

So you think it more logical that they'll revamp the entirety of their content delivery system, rather than simply expanding on the solution that already exists?

I think if they had a set plan to apply duty support to everything we'd have heard more about it. I have no idea what their actual motivation is behind adding duty support, so can't say for sure it means they understand the problem. Maybe they just figured people wanted to move through dungeons at their own pace, whereas trials are more set pieces where other players can't ruin the experience.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

I think if they had a set plan to apply duty support to everything we'd have heard more about it. I have no idea what their actual motivation is behind adding duty support, so can't say for sure it means they understand the problem. Maybe they just figured people wanted to move through dungeons at their own pace, whereas trials are more set pieces where other players can't ruin the experience.

This is a stretch. This is a huge stretch. You're positing 'what if' problems, and then disregarding the obvious solutions because the developers haven't discussed the what if? Because you don't know that they're going to fix problems with their game?

Nobody is saying that this system doesn't have downsides; all of them do.

[Artos]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Artos:

Its an mmo game that requires players to play... Its not surprising... Content is centred around other players but they are aware older content will eventually be more and more difficult to play. Duty Support/Trust is a perfect example of them acknowledging that issue becoming a problem in future... What else do you want? Its not a band aid it's an actual solution that is constantly being expanded. They just need time to program/test all those AI to react to the mechanics of the Bosses... You really can't anymore use it as an excuse to ♥♥♥♥ on them when they are actively working on it. In the same time they work on new expansions and making sure all future MSQ content can be played with Trust system...

If they duty support everything then problem solved, but we don't even know if they plan on extending this to trials or Alliance Raids.

Might as well stop playing the game. Eventually game will die, and no players to play. Why bother trying to complete that optional side quest that is there to rewards you for your time doing old content and give you an epilogue ? Like seriously dude. Move on, singleplayer games are your thing, why bother with MMO ?

Duty Support/Trust was promised to be expanded and further supported. So idk why you even imply you don't know if they plan.... when they already said they will... At this point I am treating you as a troll attempting to farm some badges. There is nothing constructive in your "feedback" and by removing all PVE you just want to make this game into a visual novel... You don't even think about consequences. Duty Support is great to preserve the "feel" and "tone" of the game, so people today can experience game same way players 10 years ago did. Something that many mmo games. Especially wow failed. I can't do story anymore in WoW its impossible. You can reach lvl 60 in less than 11h and not even halfway through expansion.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

I think if they had a set plan to apply duty support to everything we'd have heard more about it. I have no idea what their actual motivation is behind adding duty support, so can't say for sure it means they understand the problem. Maybe they just figured people wanted to move through dungeons at their own pace, whereas trials are more set pieces where other players can't ruin the experience.

This is a stretch. This is a huge stretch. You're positing 'what if' problems, and then disregarding the obvious solutions because the developers haven't discussed the what if? Because you don't know that they're going to fix problems with their game?

It's about as much of a stretch as assuming they understand their game can't sustain low populations as it is, and Duty Support is their direct response.

Without them stating their motivations it's all unfounded speculation. I'm not sure why they wouldn't announce their plans to extend Duty Support to trials/raids if that's 100% their long term goal.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Artos:

You can reach lvl 60 in less than 11h and not even halfway through expansion.

two vanilla zones = max level

you cannot even do a single expansion's story coherently any more

Originally posted by Giganx:

I'm not sure why they wouldn't announce their plans to extend Duty Support to trials/raids if that's 100% their long term goal.

I mean they kinda did? It's all been 'yet' whenever they talk about the 8 mans in MSQ. 'It's not implemented yet'. Pretty sure that's what that means.

[Artos]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Sunny:

This is a stretch. This is a huge stretch. You're positing 'what if' problems, and then disregarding the obvious solutions because the developers haven't discussed the what if? Because you don't know that they're going to fix problems with their game?

It's about as much of a stretch as assuming they understand their game can't sustain low populations as it is, and Duty Support is their direct response.

Without them stating their motivations it's all unfounded speculation. I'm not sure why they wouldn't announce their plans to extend Duty Support to everything if that's 100% their long term goal.

Why everything ? Only MSQ is needed to be completed to reach endgame. So only MSQ should be covered lol. Everything else is optional, for which you can talk to others...

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Artos:

Originally posted by Giganx:

If they duty support everything then problem solved, but we don't even know if they plan on extending this to trials or Alliance Raids.

Might as well stop playing the game. Eventually game will die, and no players to play. Why bother trying to complete that optional side quest that is there to rewards you for your time doing old content and give you an epilogue ? Like seriously dude. Move on, singleplayer games are your thing, why bother with MMO ?

Duty Support/Trust was promised to be expanded and further supported. So idk why you even imply you don't know if they plan.... when they already said they will... At this point I am treating you as a troll attempting to farm some badges. There is nothing constructive in your "feedback" and by removing all PVE you just want to make this game into a visual novel... You don't even think about consequences. Duty Support is great to preserve the "feel" and "tone" of the game, so people today can experience game same way players 10 years ago did. Something that many mmo games. Especially wow failed. I can't do story anymore in WoW its impossible. You can reach lvl 60 in less than 11h and not even halfway through expansion.

Nothing's stopping you from doing the story in WoW, you simply don't have to. The main problem with WoW is that the story sucks compared to FFXIV. It doesn't mean WoW's decision to not leave new players on low population servers trapped behind inactive low level content was a bad one.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Nothing's stopping you from doing the story in WoW, you simply don't have to.

Spoken as someone who hasn't tried to do it lately. Your quests get abandoned and you get teleported when you hit max level now. =)

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

Nothing's stopping you from doing the story in WoW, you simply don't have to.

Spoken as someone who hasn't tried to do it. Your quests get abandoned and you get teleported when you hit max level now. =)

It has been a while since I've played WoW. That is pretty dumb.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

Originally posted by Sunny:

Spoken as someone who hasn't tried to do it. Your quests get abandoned and you get teleported when you hit max level now. =)

It has been a while since I've played WoW. That is pretty dumb.

It is awful. They also gave all characters the option to get "current" gear on login (since it's all been retooled), but to accept the gear you have to abandon all quests and wipe progress on that toon. That's the mitigating strategy they've chosen for the flaws in their content delivery system.

This is better, at least when the product you're selling is a Final Fantasy story with continuity.

All systems have downsides. The downsides of this system are obvious, and already being addressed. It's pure ego to think that we might notice a problem the developers don't when they're already running the game that got here to begin with and it's SO EASY to armchair solve.

The logic there just doesn't track.

'what if population dies?' 'they'll implement duty support.' 'but what if they don't?'

don't worry. they will. it's so easy my grandkid could probably figure out that's the best way to address it. if they really don't manage to figure out how to get CT itself working, they'll just Prae it. Perfectly feasible way to address the potential 'what if'.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

It has been a while since I've played WoW. That is pretty dumb.

It is awful. They also gave all characters the option to get "current" gear on login (since it's all been retooled), but to accept the gear you have to abandon all quests and wipe progress on that toon.

This is better.

All systems have downsides. The downsides of this system are obvious, and already being addressed. It's pure ego to think that we might notice a problem the developers don't when they're already running the game that got here to begin with and it's SO EASY to armchair solve.

One games bad decisions don't really justify another's. Would you look at the WoW developers decisions over the years and conclude they understand the state of their game and what it needs?

That the FFXIV developers perpetuated this problematic system for so long gives me plenty of reason to believe they either don't see or don't care about the potential issues. Honestly, Bozja alone leads me to doubt they understand how to create sustainable content.

[Sunny]

Originally posted by Giganx:

One games bad decisions don't really justify another's. Would you look at the WoW developers decisions over the years and conclude they understand the state of their game and what it needs?

Bad decisions? No. Choices in mitigation strategies. The downsides of WoW's content delivery system require different mitigation to address the problems it has. Nobody who prefers that is mad, and that's what's being sold. All of their massive issues and drama have to do with staffing issues and political climate and fruitbowls, not that they've chosen to make it easier for people who are buying that to get it.

Originally posted by Giganx:

That the FFXIV developers perpetuated this problematic system for so long gives me plenty of reason to believe they either don't see or don't care about the potential issues. Honestly, Bozja alone leads me to doubt they understand how to create sustainable content.

Except this requires that they have already implemented the solution to a problem that they don't recognize. That logic doesn't follow.

Bozja is optional content. That is a different issue than the MSQ.

[Giganx]

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

That the FFXIV developers perpetuated this problematic system for so long gives me plenty of reason to believe they either don't see or don't care about the potential issues. Honestly, Bozja alone leads me to doubt they understand how to create sustainable content.

Except this requires that they have already implemented the solution to a problem that they don't recognize. That logic doesn't follow.

Again, this depends on the motivation behind implementing duty support. Their implementation so far hasn't solved the problem, and they haven't provided us anything in regard to their long term goals and what they hope to achieve with it.

Originally posted by Sunny:

Originally posted by Giganx:

One games bad decisions don't really justify another's. Would you look at the WoW developers decisions over the years and conclude they understand the state of their game and what it needs?

Bad decisions? No. Choices in mitigation strategies. The downsides of WoW's content delivery system require different mitigation to address the problems it has. Nobody who prefers that is mad, and that's what's being sold.

All WoW did was pointlessly remove an option by abandoning all of your quests and removing you from the storyline. I doubt that's what anyone asked for and there's really no goal they could have that would benefit. It's just a completely tone deaf action from the people who supposedly understand the game better than anyone.