summoner cross class skills?

[Saica-Fox]

what other skills should i use cross class with summoner?

[Gabby]

Thaumaturge and Archer Skills.

You'll want Swiftcast for sure, being able to insta-rez people in fights make you invaluable utility and takes a load off healers.

Raging Strikes and Quelling Strikes are highly recommended too, one amps your damage and the other lets you lower your threat.

Of all the CC you can take, avoid Ice II and Hawks Eye, they are both pretty much useless to you.

So Raging Strikes, Quelling Strikes, Swiftcast and Surecast (which is borderline useless), then pick the useless skills of Ice II or Hawks Eye, you really won't need or use them ever.

[Promestein]

Blizzard 2 is extremely helpful at 40-50 range.

[Gabby]

Ehhh... not really. At 40-50 you're essentially wasting time you could be using keeping your dots up on groups. Ice II is very low damage and it's only real purpose is Bind... which TriBind does and at a range.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

Ehhh... not really. At 40-50 you're essentially wasting time you could be using keeping your dots up on groups. Ice II is very low damage and it's only real purpose is Bind... which TriBind does and at a range.

Its highest potency filler spell when all your DoTs are applied.

[Gabby]

Which requires you to run into melee and possible AoEs, thus making the time to cast and use it even longer. It's also aspected, not unaspected, which alters it's overall damage based on the enemies. There's a reason Unaspected Damage is typically of a lower potency, and that's that there's no resistance for it.

Situationally it's only useful if you've somehow gotten yourself swarmed... and at that point you're already making mistakes. Either way it's likely one of the spells you'll fill the empty gaps in. But there's a good reason I don't bother with it on my bar. Especially since at 46 you get Miasma II which pretty much removes any need or urgency to waste time with Ice II. Miasama II does an instant 20 potency damage (also unaspected), can be cast twice in the time that Blizzard II takes to cast, adds a 10 potency tick as well (and ticks twice during cooldown), as well as adding Malady and Heavy. <_<;

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

Which requires you to run into melee and possible AoEs, thus making the time to cast and use it even longer. It's also aspected, not unaspected, which alters it's overall damage based on the enemies. There's a reason Unaspected Damage is typically of a lower potency, and that's that there's no resistance for it.

Its better than anything else at your disposal at that moment, you don't just spam ruin.

[Gabby]

Erm... You said 40-50, half of that leveling you have Miasma II, and no, because generally the time it takes to cast even once you're already losing your poison ticks. It's a waste of time.

You also entirely ignored the deal about unaspected damage.

And when you cap, if you're using anything for filler you're either casting Ruin III or doing something wrong. Your argument looks great on paper, horrible in practice when you actually factor in the time it takes to move into positions, considerations over whether or not you're managing your Egi properly, etc.

This may also have some bias from me since I haven't once run across a summoner spamming Blizz II that wasn't also letting their dots expire constantly.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

Erm... You said 40-50, half of that leveling you have Miasma II, and no, because generally the time it takes to cast even once you're already losing your poison ticks. It's a waste of time.

You also entirely ignored the deal about unaspected damage.

Contagion. And Miasma II is also applied. Still have time to cast.

[Gabby]

Miasma II has an instant damage aspect and coupled with it's tick, you can do more damage just spamming it than you possibly could spamming Ice II. (You'll also probably use less mana.) Again, you're ignoring everything else I've stated. Cover the aspect issue, cover the casting times and actual implimentation in a fight, cover everything that can happen in the 15 seconds between when you should be renewing dots.

You're sounding like one of those players who doesn't actually react to situations in a fight, but rather just cycles mindlessly through a rotation ignoring all buttons outside what you've chosen. Are you rotating rouse and spur? Are you using Enkindle when you get the appropriate chance? Have you ever tried to measure how much Potency you're really putting out when you compare say, the amount of Blizzard 2's you can get out in the same time as casting Tri-Bind from where you're standing? Do you typically stand in Melee and stay there? There's a lot you don't seem to be considering, just the numbers.

You're avoiding all the points that count here while trying to bury me in the same semantics people use when they want to defend this manuver. Not once have they outclassed me in a DPS race.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

Miasma II has an instant damage aspect and coupled with it's tick, you can do more damage just spamming it than you possibly could spamming Ice II. Again, you're ignoring everything else I've stated. Cover the aspect issue, cover the casting times and actual implimentation in a fight, cover everuything that can happen in the 15 seconds between when you should be renewing dots.

You're avoiding all the points that count here while trying to bury me in the same semantics people use when they want to defend this manuver. Not once have they outclassed me in a DPS race.

Why clipping though, you have 50 potency per target AoE. And you are already in range after Miasma II. You can weave it fine. Yes, I agree that it's useless later on but you can use it in that level gap. Also M2 is still GCD so you cant overpotency it if you spam it.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

Miasma II has an instant damage aspect and coupled with it's tick, you can do more damage just spamming it than you possibly could spamming Ice II. (You'll also probably use less mana.) Again, you're ignoring everything else I've stated. Cover the aspect issue, cover the casting times and actual implimentation in a fight, cover everything that can happen in the 15 seconds between when you should be renewing dots.

You're sounding like one of those players who doesn't actually react to situations in a fight, but rather just cycles mindlessly through a rotation ignoring all buttons outside what you've chosen. Are you rotating rouse and spur? Are you using Enkindle when you get the appropriate chance? Have you ever tried to measure how much Potency you're really putting out when you compare say, the amount of Blizzard 2's you can get out in the same time as casting Tri-Bind from where you're standing? Do you typically stand in Melee and stay there? There's a lot you don't seem to be considering, just the numbers.

You're avoiding all the points that count here while trying to bury me in the same semantics people use when they want to defend this manuver. Not once have they outclassed me in a DPS race.

I'm Black Mage. XD Well, i just argue on the point of total uselesness of Blizzard II, calm down (or not if you are calm).

[Gabby]

I feel like you don't understand how potency works. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

I feel like you don't understand how potency works. You keep using that word, but I do not think it means what you think it means.

And what do you think i think it means?

[Gabby]

To try and explain, potency is just one aspect of damage outcome. It's a multiplier that determines overall raw damage before it meets resistance. There's a problem in your logic as you keep saying "50 Potency" when you mean "50 Potency, Ice Damage". This is important because the entirety of the damage that potency deals will be further reduced after calculation based on the mob's resistanc to Ice. While not as prevalent as it is in FFXI, the aspects still actually matter to some extent. (There's a flat 10% reduction on elements across the board, with the exception of Unaspected Damage, which completely ignores resistances.)

So what I'm trying to explain is that in the 2s it takes to cast and produce that 50 Potency, Ice Damage, you can cast Miasma II twice. Which deals 20 Potency, Unaspected each time and the tick between casts is an additional 10 Potency, Unaspected.

So in the time it takes to cast Blizzard 2 once, you will deal 50 potency worth of damange, vs. the 50 potency of Miasma II. The difference however, is that Blizzard 2's damage will be further reduced because it's Ice based. Miasma II will not. If after casting, they each outputted say, 500 damage, the Ice 2 damage would actually be 450, the Miasma II damage would actually still be 500.

This is why, overall, Arcanist spell potency is lower than Thaumaturge yet they can actually compete for their overall damage if played correctly.

[Promestein]

Originally posted by Seraphna:

To try and explain, potency is just one aspect of damage outcome. It's a multiplier that determines overall raw damage before it meets resistance. There's a problem in your logic as you keep saying "50 Potency" when you mean "50 Potency, Ice Damage". This is important because the entirety of the damage that potency deals will be further reduced after calculation based on the mob's resistanc to Ice. While not as prevalent as it is in FFXI, the aspects still actually matter to some extent. (There's a flat 10% reduction on elements across the board, with the exception of Unaspected Damage, which completely ignores resistances.)

So what I'm trying to explain is that in the 2s it takes to cast and produce that 50 Potency, Ice Damage, you can cast Miasma II twice. Which deals 20 Potency, Unaspected each time and the tick between casts is an additional 10 Potency, Unaspected.

So in the time it takes to cast Blizzard 2 once, you will deal 50 potency worth of damange, vs. the 50 potency of Miasma II. The difference however, is that Blizzard 2's damage will be further reduced because it's Ice based. Miasma II will not.

How the hell do you cast GCD spell twice while Blizzard II only once? You cast Miasma II and wait for GCD to end (well not actually wait you weave some stuff if you can, but thats not the point). And yes my knowledge of potency was right and i know about internal and external modifiers.