I dunno why people say FF14 raiding is easy

[Sardorim]

I actually need to learn/know the fight and my job, as well as pay attention to tells.

Meanwhile in WoW, the addons played the Raids for me and always told me what I needed to do.

[Kalypso]

This argument is still going on? What? From what I can gather, the games easy to people with a lot of experience in MMOs and games in general. If they always made games harder for these hardcore players, they could never grow an audience. Only the hardcore would wanna play, and that's an ever decreasing demographic. On top ofthat, games having to get harder and harder with the skill of these players. Cutting out any chance for anyone new to play. I am much better at games then most. I don't need every game to be this insanely difficult challenge to play it. Long as it has some difficulty, where i actually have to use the mechanics to win then i can't complain. FF14 HAS that for the raids and even the story missions to a degree, but it's really easy to overlevel for the story. Makes it much easier then I think was intended.

[Kalypso]

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Melee DPS is a lot harder to play in raids than ranged DPS like machinist. I was shocked at how much easier it is to position for offense and dodge attacks with a machinist compared to a ninja. The fight mechanics, or at least most of them seem to be designed to screw melee the hardest. There's a few oddball attacks that require you move under a boss, and melee would of course already be in a position to avoid these attacks, but typically it's the other way around and ranged has a shorter path to take to move out of the way than melee does.

thats kinda the point in ranged DPS, isn't it?

[AH-1 Cobra]

There's another consideration for ranged DPS as well, because healers often share positions with ranged DPS, so even if you're not 100% sure on a fight, you got more people around who you can follow and tag along with who could be more familiar with the fight than you are.

Even on full team raids, melee DPS is a huge minority, so the options for "maybe I should stand where this other person is" are fewer for melee DPS, because they do not want to be standing next to the tank, and a lot of full team content seems to be heavily weighted in favor of ranged DPS over melee.

I've done some full team content where I was literally the only melee DPS out of 15 DPS, and if I didn't know the positioning, I didn't have another melee DPS to use as a reference point for when and where I should be moving or what I should be doing, when.

[causality]

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Melee DPS is a lot harder to play in raids than ranged DPS like machinist. I was shocked at how much easier it is to position for offense and dodge attacks with a machinist compared to a ninja. The fight mechanics, or at least most of them seem to be designed to screw melee the hardest. There's a few oddball attacks that require you move under a boss, and melee would of course already be in a position to avoid these attacks, but typically it's the other way around and ranged has a shorter path to take to move out of the way than melee does.

But ninja has 4 blinks and 3 gap closers (including TCJ interactions) and their highest potency attacks are all ranged GCDs nukes.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Kalypso:

thats kinda the point in ranged DPS, isn't it?

Melee seems to do more DPS, at least Ninja compared to Machinst, but it's not by an extreme amount that would make up for the advantages for playing ranged, IMO.

[Kalypso]

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Originally posted by Kalypso:

thats kinda the point in ranged DPS, isn't it?

Melee seems to do more DPS, at least Ninja compared to Machinst, but it's not by an extreme amount that would make up for the advantages for playing ranged, IMO.

...yes... that's the entire point... ranged does less damage and is more frail, but is safer DPS.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by causality:

But ninja has 4 blinks and 3 gap closers (including TCJ interactions) and their highest potency attacks are all ranged GCDs nukes. :lunar2019piginablanket:

True, Ninja has very powerful ranged attacks, but their rotations get maximum benefit up close. So ninja is still technically melee.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by Kalypso:

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Melee seems to do more DPS, at least Ninja compared to Machinst, but it's not by an extreme amount that would make up for the advantages for playing ranged, IMO.

...yes... that's the entire point... ranged does less damage and is more frail, but is safer DPS.

I don't know what the difference in DPS is at top level/top gear for Ninja vs Machinst, but if Ninja doesn't do at least 50% more DPS than Machinist, then I'd weigh strongly in favor of using Machinist, personally. At lower levels of play it's probably more even, given that Machinst's rotation is considerably less demanding than Ninja's. So an OK Machinist vs an ok Ninja might end up being a lot closer on damage.

[AH-1 Cobra]

I can tell you all for an absolute fact, that if you team with a Ninja who's killing it on parsing and doesn't wear the bunny hat at least a couple of times for mudra mistakes over a lengthy raid, they're using combo plugins, because nobody is that good. Even a very good player is going to make a mistake at some point, and that's really the test right there to know if someone is using combo plugins on their Ninja is if they never make mudra mistakes, because the combo plugins don't and humans 100% will.

[KingOfFriedChicken]

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Originally posted by Kalypso:

thats kinda the point in ranged DPS, isn't it?

Melee seems to do more DPS, at least Ninja compared to Machinst, but it's not by an extreme amount that would make up for the advantages for playing ranged, IMO.

Not that i wanna be a part of aany arguements but arent the top dps classes like black mage, reaper, samurai and mechanist? for sheer damage output. i mean ninja is up there but im pretty sure its lower then the mechanist.

As far as catering to which group is always a tough balance, this is why they release certain content thats mostly optional for those more hard core challenge seekers but leaving the main story out of that kind of stuff, but i think if you play any game with fast reactions required then this game offers little challenge in the majority of the game, in fact the bigger challenge is keeping others alive this is why i mained healer for the longest time and then took up tank when DRK launched. I however never had a harder time in melee or range, and i enjoyed the more complex classes till they reworked them over and over and made everything more cookie cutter and less complex.

[Kalypso]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Melee seems to do more DPS, at least Ninja compared to Machinst, but it's not by an extreme amount that would make up for the advantages for playing ranged, IMO.

Not that i wanna be a part of aany arguements but arent the top dps classes like black mage, reaper, samurai and mechanist? for sheer damage output. i mean ninja is up there but im pretty sure its lower then the mechanist.

As far as catering to which group is always a tough balance, this is why they release certain content thats mostly optional for those more hard core challenge seekers but leaving the main story out of that kind of stuff, but i think if you play any game with fast reactions required then this game offers little challenge in the majority of the game, in fact the bigger challenge is keeping others alive this is why i mained healer for the longest time and then took up tank when DRK launched. I however never had a harder time in melee or range, and i enjoyed the more complex classes till they reworked them over and over and made everything more cookie cutter and less complex.

Adding harder content for those players seems to be the way to do it.

[AH-1 Cobra]

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Not that i wanna be a part of aany arguements but arent the top dps classes like black mage, reaper, samurai and mechanist? for sheer damage output. i mean ninja is up there but im pretty sure its lower then the mechanist.

That's crazy if Machinist is higher than Ninja, because the later is considerably more difficult to play. That would be a justification to buff Ninja IMO. If what you say is true, then after all the years this game has been out, Yoshi P can't seem to balance a pen on his finger.

[Hobo Misanthropus]

Originally posted by crimsonedge11:

Originally posted by KingOfFriedChicken:

Not that i wanna be a part of aany arguements but arent the top dps classes like black mage, reaper, samurai and mechanist? for sheer damage output. i mean ninja is up there but im pretty sure its lower then the mechanist.

That's crazy if Machinist is higher than Ninja, because the later is considerably more difficult to play. That would be a justification to buff Ninja IMO. If what you say is true, then after all the years this game has been out, Yoshi P can't seem to balance a pen on his finger.

Look at the tank patch notes and tell me they give a solid blue ♥♥♥♥ about balance? They buffed Warrior's Guaranteed DCRIT Burst abilities in a game that is all about crit damage, lmao. Now the most brainless job in the game has both Top 60% DPS capability and top Healer ability, all by just mashing 123.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

raiding anything savage and below in this game IS easy. especially past the first 2 weeks of a new tier. the only hard part is finding 7 others who are willing to commit. in other mmos you need way more people to raid to begin with. this makes thier raids alot harder to tackle by default.

once you have 7 halfway capable others you can clear any savage tier in around 2-3 weeks after release. if you commit and dont casul around nonstop. too many "raid groups" in this game are playing like 2-3 times per week only for less than 10 hours per week. thats casul raiding and thus they of course dont clear the tier until MONTHS into it very often.

week 1 clears are a bit harder simply due to silly weekly gear limitations in this game hardgateing most gear progress until week 2-3. but the earlier you clear the easier it becomes as you dont get punished by loseing loot lockouts each week you dont clear a fight.

but this games raids are all about pattern recognition and then dps uptime once you have the pattern down.

anything below savage is a complete laughing stock in terms of "difficulty"

ultimate doesnt really matter as its never relevant for any kind of progression and ultimate fights come out so rarely and are only 1 fight aswell. are they difficult ? yes totally. are they worth the trouble tough? no. game doesnt really reward clearing them in the first place. even the weapon skins you get are reused assests with just a fancy new glow slapped onto them.

"raids" in most mmos (not wow) i played where alot harder and took alot more time to complete and clear aswell compared. but these mmos also didnt make the rewards worthless in such a short amount of time. which is probaly the reason why it was keept so easy overall. plus raiding normally means youre righting your way trough a massive enemy stronghold of sorts. not really the case here to begin with. its just 4 lair bosses everytime. and they arent even progressive. each tier is fully seperate from the last tier.

Inconvenience and difficulty aren't the same thing. A larger scale raid being more difficult to organise does not make the content harder.

[Geralt]

When a game gives you a countdown, a big yellow circle and tells you the name of the attacks that are coming, your hand's already held.

Add into that limit breaks that fully heal and resurrect the entire party who somehow can't avoid yellow circles or read attacks.

The reason the game is SO popular is because it IS easy. They know how to make money. If this game touched anything remotely hardcore, the content wouldn't get touched. You guys are not that level.