Paladin vs. Warrior in Dungeons.

[Giganx]

I'm kind of torn between Paladin and Warrior.

Visually and gameplay wise I like the Paladin best, but the Warrior has one very important thing that makes it very difficult to pass up: Warrior is immune to bad healers. No matter how bad your healer is you can wall to wall pull with no fear of dying; since nascent is basically a full heal plus 7 seconds of completely invulnerability on a 25 second CD. Having that plus 2 other OCD heals means you're pretty much unkillable.

Now Paladin has clemency; which is strong but it guts your DPS and is generally a source of conflict in the group. Using Clemency is basically telling your healer he's bad, so you need to gut your own DPS to do his job for him. A lot of healers who see you using clemency take instant offense, and it becomes a whole thing.

I'll probably end up sticking with PLD because when it comes down to it aesthetics always end up mattering most. Still, Warrior is hard to pass up for those guaranteed smooth runs.

[MOSLEY]

Do you know what rDPS is?

[Alternity]

Who cares about parsing, this thread is about dungeons.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Who cares about parsing, this thread is about dungeons.

Literally no one is talking about parsing.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Alternity:

Who cares about parsing, this thread is about dungeons.

Literally no one is talking about parsing.

7 hours earlier...

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by causality:

Lol. You press buttons on cooldown and all your FoF/Req will align with raid buffs, unless you die or something. :cuphead:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/49#class=Tanks

Then why is PLD so much lower under aDPS than it is under rDPS? Why are they reworking the job in 6.3? Could it possibly be because its hardest hitting skills tend not to align with raid buffs? Shocking.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Literally no one is talking about parsing.

7 hours earlier...

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statistics/49#class=Tanks

Then why is PLD so much lower under aDPS than it is under rDPS? Why are they reworking the job in 6.3? Could it possibly be because its hardest hitting skills tend not to align with raid buffs? Shocking.

Is that about parsing or is that about PLD’s damage rotation not working well within the current meta i.e. all jobs (except PLD) being designed around burst damage at 2 minute intervals?

[Alternity]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Alternity:

7 hours earlier...

Is that about parsing or is that about PLD’s damage rotation not working well within the current meta i.e. all jobs (except PLD) being designed around burst damage at 2 minute intervals?

It's both, and both are irrelevant in dungeons.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Is that about parsing or is that about PLD’s damage rotation not working well within the current meta i.e. all jobs (except PLD) being designed around burst damage at 2 minute intervals?

It's both, and both are irrelevant in dungeons.

I don’t think that’s true but ok chief.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Alternity:

It's both, and both are irrelevant in dungeons.

I don’t think that’s true but ok chief.

It's only relevant if the goal is to be as efficient as possible in dungeons, which is clearly not the topic of this thread.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Seraphita:

Originally posted by Alternity:

It's only relevant if the goal is to be as efficient as possible in dungeons, which is clearly not the topic of this thread.

Except for the part where OP wants to give less job to healers because they're afraid to rely on exactly what is there to keep them alive. The game focuses on a team balance between players. 1 healer, 1 tank, 2 dps. Everyone is needed to make a perfect team to success.

In a way, he wants to be as self sufficient as possible, therefore as efficient as possible to his own survivability, which kinda goes against the teamwork fundamentals of FFXIV. And if you don't trust healers to keep you alive (especially in easy content like dungeons) then wtf.

Survivability has nothing to do with parsing though, parsing data is almost exclusively about how damage is efficient. Yes, in some cases damage will mean more survivability but if we give every team the same skillset but change the tank, we all know what job is the clear winner here.

[Giganx]

In a way it is about efficiency, but for dungeons burning down trash is more important than lining up burst windows during the boss fights. In that regard I feel like WAR is superior because A) It frontloads it's AoE damage, which is good in short fights; and B) Healers can focus almost entirely on DPS in most cases.

As for preferring to take my survival into my own hands, that's not unreasonable. Not saying you die all the time as other tanks, but my survival rate on even the craziest W2W's in the game on WAR is 100%. That's more efficient than when I'm playing tanks that rely more on the Healer.

[causality]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Who cares about parsing, this thread is about dungeons.

Parse monkeys (not referring to anyone here as that) always find a way. We could be talking about the weather and they'll change subject to how awesome their purple parse or meme optimizations they copied off a Discord channel are.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Alternity:

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

I don’t think that’s true but ok chief.

It's only relevant if the goal is to be as efficient as possible in dungeons, which is clearly not the topic of this thread.

Then what’s the point of this thread? You can clear dungeons without a tank. WAR vs. PLD only makes sense in the context of efficiency.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by MOSLEY:

Originally posted by Alternity:

It's only relevant if the goal is to be as efficient as possible in dungeons, which is clearly not the topic of this thread.

Then what’s the point of this thread? You can clear dungeons without a tank. WAR vs. PLD only makes sense in the context of efficiency.

Not raid efficiency, which is what parsing is all about.

[Alternity]

Originally posted by Seraphita:

Originally posted by Alternity:

Not raid efficiency, which is what parsing is all about.

I mean, what is a raid if not a boss without its dungeon? But seriously, you "can" technically use rDPS and aDPS in dungeons. It's just not relevant to this thread, however. In this thread, it's more "what class survives better without a healer?" and WAR is praised like a god.

All the risky things in dungeon happens outside of bosses, which usually the main concern, i.e. big pulls. In fact, most of the ocnversation in this thread was about that more than anything else, I don't think bosses were even mentionned.

[*Logan*]

Originally posted by Seraphita:

Originally posted by Alternity:

Not raid efficiency, which is what parsing is all about.

I mean, what is a raid if not a boss without its dungeon? But seriously, you "can" technically use rDPS and aDPS in dungeons. It's just not relevant to this thread, however. In this thread, it's more "what class survives better without a healer?" and WAR is praised like a god.

That's because they are and I am pleased I chose such an excellent class to main.