The game just isn't that good

[Nerva Matapan]

And I get that FFXIV's community feels very strongly about the product. But, honestly, the game itself is horribly dated, with achingly slow combat, a database that is so taxed and barely held together that the developer can't even figure out how to do things like increase the appearance wardrobe size, a story largely focused on a mary sue whose unearned powers have opened every door and slain every foe, rancid PvP, and enormously-scripted, 'safe' dungeon and raid content that focuses less on player intuition than memorization.

Yes, not every game is for everyone, but I've been a devoted fan of FF titles since the early 90s (at least through IX - afterwards, the series kind of came off the rails), and a committed MMORPG player since UO and Phantasy Star Online (which, much as it pains me to admit, means I have been involved with these games since before many of the people posting here were conceived). I *should* be FFXIV's target audience.

But it's just too janky to keep me playing. And the way things sound, it appears that SE has no imminent plans for a replacement. Which is... unfortunate, since this thing is so FUBAR'd that that's what's now required.

[Cat Pondering At Yarn (mogging)]

Idk my only experience is I've come back to the game after a couple years absence and I've been playing the last 3 months with zero issues besides yeah the combat is an mmo but like combos are nice so shrug? Pretty much that experience is what the large population is feeling too which means most of us are just enjoyin our time with little to no issue.

[Aurjay]

War Maiden eredeti hozzászólása:

Izeyash eredeti hozzászólása:

As it always is with critique on FFXIV forums anywhere the people are overly defensive over a game that is made by a company and are needlessly simping for said company even though they make money off of them.

To give context, I think this game is the best MMO currently on the market. My reasons may vary from yours, but the story is the best MMO story there is, as soon as you change the context and compare it with other stories in general it's subpar.

What sells it to me is the character controls. I just got too used to them and think they're actually the best in market. I have total control over movement in this game and can make peace with other issues. However, this doesn't make the issues disappear.

3 second servertick, initially slow combat, dated graphics, missing features that should be in the game from the beginning for which I don't want to go into detail for now.

Your experience is 100% valid and correct. The combat IS slow for the parts that you have experienced. Those that pulled through know that it changes a bit lategame but that is like saying "The show is boring at the beginning but don't worry, after episode 224 it's getting good!" and if a game fails to captivate you before, that's a game issue.

People will call you out saying you didn't experience lategame but fail to understand that you're talking about the parts you have played are trying to shift the discussion to something that you didn't address. Another example would be that if you were to go to a restraurant with a 3 course meal and they serve you something disgusting as an aperitif, would you really stay for the entrée and desert?

I think that the experiences you have made can even be seen on max level. I have leveled every class, played a vast majority of battle content and non battle content there is.

Janky stuff like a 3 second servertick, the fact that they have declared multiple "DDOS attacks" when people have just been playing the game, the fact that they had to stop sales because more than normal average player count had accessed the servers (which is not a sign of success if the congestion was CLEARLY caused by server hardware). I can count pixels on textures sometimes. While there may be some graphics update in the future, we're in a time there isn't one, so theres that. People needing to use glitches that aren't exactly endorsed by SE but at the same time are protected by them when it comes to housing instead of just going the *correct* way and giving people control over a furnitures position and elevation from the getgo. Or how they handle housing in general in this game, absolutely horrendous. Additionally, SE indeed did not upgrade their server hardware and it wasn't the chip shortage keeping them from doing it. They could have done it all after the first time server hardware had issues, but nope. They hide behind the "chip shortage" and people are buying it all.

Again, totally valid evaluation of the parts that you have experienced, despite what other ffxiv andy's here say or quote, they're being contrarian for the sake of it.. And I think that sounds about right. Game can't win over everyone.

Edit: spelling

So where is the proof of your claims?
Well all know about the 'chip shortage', but your claims go beyond mere money and buying issues. How do you substantiate your findings?

If they are lying, and used this as cover, I would be highly irritated, not surprised, but irritated. Because I trust this company to a relative extent.

I'm not a youtuber, so I didn't go as far as to make a video comparing the time it takes to do the same number of skills in the same amount of time between World of Warcraft and Final Fantasy XIV, but that is exactly how I did it. And I excluded any long cooldown situational skills used, and used only what someone would use in an actual fight. Even with the longer global cooldown, FFXIV did win because it has more off global cooldown skills in comparison to World of Warcraft. Max level characters with their full arsenal of skills was used in my comparison.

I do encourage anyone who does wish to make a video to make one on this. Personally, I always was confused why everyone said that FFXIV's combat was slower than WoW's when I always felt it was different before I did the personal test to find out that it is just not true at all.

[Raansu]

Seraphita eredeti hozzászólása:

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

PSO was a dungeon crawler, not an MMO lol.

By this logic, FF14 is a dungeon crawler. There's not much difference in gameplay so lol.

The original PSO there was a huge difference in game play. It was straight up a lobby system and ran through the zones the same way you would have in Diablo 2. PSO2 was the same way. New Genesis added an open world to be more "MMO" style, but the original PSO was not an MMO.

[Raansu]

Aurjay eredeti hozzászólása:

So I have to say I do disagree with you on one thing that is actually factually incorrect, the slow combat, as you put it. Short of an Action based MMORPG, like Black Desert Online, the combat in FFXIV is actually one of the fastest tab targeting combat when it comes to amount of skills used per minute.

The GCD is 2.5s and the average APM is barely over 40. Yes the combat speeds up at cap with all the oGCD skills. No its not a fast combat game. It took me years to get over how slow the GCD is.

WoW's GCD is 1s and SWTOR's is 1.5s (1.2 to 1.4 with alacrity). Only MNK and NIN in FFXIV can get down to 1.5s without an insane amount of skill speed stat.

[weiss]

Aurjay eredeti hozzászólása:

PrincessRoyal eredeti hozzászólása:

And I get that FFXIV's community feels very strongly about the product. But, honestly, the game itself is horribly dated, with achingly slow combat, a database that is so taxed and barely held together that the developer can't even figure out how to do things like increase the appearance wardrobe size, a story largely focused on a mary sue whose unearned powers have opened every door and slain every foe, rancid PvP, and enormously-scripted, 'safe' dungeon and raid content that focuses less on player intuition than memorization.

Yes, not every game is for everyone, but I've been a devoted fan of FF titles since the early 90s (at least through IX - afterwards, the series kind of came off the rails), and a committed MMORPG player since UO and Phantasy Star Online (which, much as it pains me to admit, means I have been involved with these games since before many of the people posting here were conceived). I *should* be FFXIV's target audience.

But it's just too janky to keep me playing. And the way things sound, it appears that SE has no imminent plans for a replacement. Which is... unfortunate, since this thing is so FUBAR'd that that's what's now required.

I have to say I am a huge MMORPG fan and a huge snob in this genre. Because of that, I am never immediately dismissive of anyone for disliking a game in the genre without really taking in what they have to say, even if I disagree with them.

So I have to say I do disagree with you on one thing that is actually factually incorrect, the slow combat, as you put it. Short of an Action based MMORPG, like Black Desert Online, the combat in FFXIV is actually one of the fastest tab targeting combat when it comes to amount of skills used per minute. In the early stages before getting up to the initial max level of 50 this was true as you were introduced to your skills at a slow pace to get you to really feel for your class (something I think people take for granted anymore.) But FFXIV actually blows World of Warcraft out of the water in this department when you get past level 60 with the amount of off global cooldown skills you have to go with the global cooldown skills. It's been a minute since I did the test myself, but the difference was 2 or 3 skills difference per 10 seconds and that is HUGE. So that first point is only accurate at very low levels.

Wardrobe stuff, I got nothing there, I dont care about those kinds of things and never encountered the problems that others who do care about transmogs/glamours may run into.

Story is absolutely amazing and this "mary sue" reference you are making is not making any sense at all to me. In all honesty, I wished World of Warcraft would take notes from FFXIV and Star Wars: The Old Republic in the story telling department in how they deliver their story to make people actually care about being part of that universe. It pains me to say this because I have never turned off my sub to WoW since it launched and love the lore in that game, but it's hard to care about that lore when it's very poorly delivered.

Dungeons/Raids I go back and forth on, Some are great, some are long, some are too easy, some are definitely challenging and I love them. I get the criticisms about this stuff, but it can't be a clear cut criticism and ignore the actual great dungeons/raids which are about 50/50.

PVP is dreadful, said it since testing. If they weren't going to have any sort of Open World PvP they really needed to come in strong with a good Battleground AND Arena system to grab players who like both PvE and PvP or players who are more heavily PvP than PvE. They missed big time here.

I do have one big complaint that you didn't mention though, too much additional crap stuffed in. Game feels so damn overwhelming with the amount of crap filler in it anymore. I'm a completionist, so it's aimed at me to keep me from running out of things to do, but it's not fun, it's a chore with some of these things. Do really want to see a FFXIV Classic starting with 2.0 (let's not look at that 1.0 experience again.) But they dont seem to be interested in doing that, and the New Game+ is nothing compared to the original version of the game so it doesn't help with what some of us old timers are seeking.

*gives him an award*
and thats what i mean torwards royal with "you probably never made it past lv 50" because they have the opinion that combat is slow.

i agree with it that it is probably not the smartest choice to start like this. its not really appealing and it happens A LOT that peoples come into the steam forums and then making a topic about this and you notice inmediatly that they didnt made it past ARR yet.

yes, i agree aswell that forcing new players through the worst content FF14 has is a bad choice aswell but ... its how it is. if yoshida would implement a system like WoW did it would it make the story obsolete and thats what yoshida does not want. he wants that peoples experience the story. peoples which skip said story get inmediatly punished with boring npc to npc stuff and feeling lost in the game aswell.

again, FF14 is a story driven MMO. a lot of peoples do not understand this. its aswell mainly the WoW peoples which came to FF14 because they find no other options where Pay2win is not present. then they think its like WoW until they run FULL FORCE into the MSQ wall and then complaining how the game is forcing you through the story.

yea, if you do not like story MMO´s is FF14 not for you n stuff.
anyways aurjay, really well written, expecially the part with the slow combat etc.

[Aurjay]

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

Aurjay eredeti hozzászólása:

So I have to say I do disagree with you on one thing that is actually factually incorrect, the slow combat, as you put it. Short of an Action based MMORPG, like Black Desert Online, the combat in FFXIV is actually one of the fastest tab targeting combat when it comes to amount of skills used per minute.

The GCD is 2.5s and the average APM is barely over 40. Yes the combat speeds up at cap with all the oGCD skills. No its not a fast combat game. It took me years to get over how slow the GCD is.

WoW's GCD is 1s and SWTOR's is 1.5s (1.2 to 1.4 with alacrity). Only MNK and NIN in FFXIV can get down to 1.5s without an insane amount of skill speed stat.

Did you actually test it out? Because, FFXIV is absolutely faster. Just typing in those numbers and not actually doing it yourself to see for a fact that this is not the truth is not okay. That's why I say these things. I love both of these top dogs in the MMORPG genres and I yeah, I believed the same generic statement because of so many people saying these things due to the slow global cooldown in comparison to other games, but actually testing it out myself and seeing the truth shocked me and it makes me not allow anyone to say otherwise UNLESS they tested it out and see with their own two eyes. Granted anyone can just lie and say they done the test themselves and want to b*tch for the sake of b*tching, but that is on them. I am well aware of the truths on this subject here.

[causality]

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

Only MNK and NIN in FFXIV can get down to 1.5s without an insane amount of skill speed stat.

I wish there was an actual way to get a 1.5 gcd on monk.

[Aurjay]

Chiro eredeti hozzászólása:

*gives him an award*
and thats what i mean torwards royal with "you probably never made it past lv 50" because they have the opinion that combat is slow.

i agree with it that it is probably not the smartest choice to start like this. its not really appealing and it happens A LOT that peoples come into the steam forums and then making a topic about this and you notice inmediatly that they didnt made it past ARR yet.

yes, i agree aswell that forcing new players through the worst content FF14 has is a bad choice aswell but ... its how it is. if yoshida would implement a system like WoW did it would it make the story obsolete and thats what yoshida does not want. he wants that peoples experience the story. peoples which skip said story get inmediatly punished with boring npc to npc stuff and feeling lost in the game aswell.

again, FF14 is a story driven MMO. a lot of peoples do not understand this. its aswell mainly the WoW peoples which came to FF14 because they find no other options where Pay2win is not present. then they think its like WoW until they run FULL FORCE into the MSQ wall and then complaining how the game is forcing you through the story.

yea, if you do not like story MMO´s is FF14 not for you n stuff.
anyways aurjay, really well written, expecially the part with the slow combat etc.

Thank you, and I love that point about the story driven MMO. I love WoW, FFXIV, SWTOR and a few other MMOs and each have their own strengths and weaknesses. FFXIV and SWTOR both have amazing storytelling, even side quests that send you out to talk to person B to come back to person A have a purpose and doesn't feel as annoying (if you actually read the quest dialogues (the reason why SWTOR is smarter in 1 story telling aspect, voice acted everything!)

Though I am an anomaly in that I really like the ARR storyline, though it is a drag to level through. I think it would be a huge disservice to one's self to not go through it with the story skip items. As I was leveling an alt through it I am noticing some parts of the story that blends in perfectly with the story of the current expansion. I had a blind blown moment when I was like, whaaaat? They hinted towards this all the way back in ARR?

[Raansu]

Aurjay eredeti hozzászólása:

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

The GCD is 2.5s and the average APM is barely over 40. Yes the combat speeds up at cap with all the oGCD skills. No its not a fast combat game. It took me years to get over how slow the GCD is.

WoW's GCD is 1s and SWTOR's is 1.5s (1.2 to 1.4 with alacrity). Only MNK and NIN in FFXIV can get down to 1.5s without an insane amount of skill speed stat.

Did you actually test it out? Because, FFXIV is absolutely faster. Just typing in those numbers and not actually doing it yourself to see for a fact that this is not the truth is not okay. That's why I say these things. I love both of these top dogs in the MMORPG genres and I yeah, I believed the same generic statement because of so many people saying these things due to the slow global cooldown in comparison to other games, but actually testing it out myself and seeing the truth shocked me and it makes me not allow anyone to say otherwise UNLESS they tested it out and see with their own two eyes. Granted anyone can just lie and say they done the test themselves and want to b*tch for the sake of b*tching, but that is on them. I am well aware of the truths on this subject here.

I don't need to test anything out...the GCD is straight up listed on the tooltips.

I used to heavily raid in WoW.

I've cleared all hard and nightmare level operations in swtor.

I've cleared nearly every savage fight in FFXIV and I'm currently progging through DSR.

There's nothing wrong with the GCD in FFXIV being slower, but stating its fast is just lying. It can "feel" overwhelming with some job openers, especially for controller players and people who don't use keybinds, but at the end of the day the average APM for the game is still barely over 40 and its only "fast" during the opener/burst phase and for pretty much everyone now that is every 2 minutes and you're just doing the regular GCD rotation in between. This is straight up a fact.

casuality eredeti hozzászólása:

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

Only MNK and NIN in FFXIV can get down to 1.5s without an insane amount of skill speed stat.

I wish there was an actual way to get a 1.5 gcd on monk.

Its completely doable. My MNK was at 1.5s in ShB because I had so much SkS on my gear for my samurai. EW sam doesn't need as much SkS to reach the 2.14s GCD so currently my MNK sits at 1.94s because obviously I don't optimize the gear for MNK, but 1.5s is completely doable.

Most people hover at 2.0-2.1 though because going below that is just too much SkS and you lose out on other stats.

[causality]

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

casuality eredeti hozzászólása:

I wish there was an actual way to get a 1.5 gcd on monk.

Its completely doable.

Try getting a 1.5 gcd with current raiding tier items. 1.94 is pretty standard as far as monk setups go.

[Raansu]

Seraphita eredeti hozzászólása:

ランス eredeti hozzászólása:

The original PSO there was a huge difference in game play. It was straight up a lobby system and ran through the zones the same way you would have in Diablo 2. PSO2 was the same way. New Genesis added an open world to be more "MMO" style, but the original PSO was not an MMO.

FF14 is also a huge lobby system in which we connect to duties to run a linear dungeon and beat things dead. It's just that FF14 has an open world. We spend half of our time crawling dungeons. So I mean... Not much difference. PSO could basically connect with any rooms.

No its not....its not even in the same realm. Have you ever even played PSO back on the dreamcast? PSO isn't even close to an mmo,

[Raansu]

The private servers were set up exactly that same....You have clearly never played PSO.

An MMO is a persistent world.

A dungeon crawler is games like PSO or Diablo 2. I'll never understand why people will go out of their way to call PSO an MMO and then they will turn around and wont say the same thing about the Diablo games which is what PSO is based off of.

[Raansu]

PSO is not PSO2 and PSO2 still isn't an MMO either regardless of what that third party site wants to claim it to be. New genesis has an open persistent world so yes that one is an MMO.