Why so anti-addon?

[Tito]

This is probably just me being an RP centric guy and being spoiled by all of the community made addons that were in WoW, but man, I feel like if the dev team was more supportive of community made Addons, it would make this game even better. I understand that they want to prevent the optimization/automation of gameplay like raiding through parsing addons and damage numbers etc. , but what about the other stuff?

To give an example: I absolutely hate that this game does not have chat bubbles.. I remember seeing on Reddit before that some people prefer it being this way because Limsa would be "flooded with text on screen" but I don't think that would be as big of a problem as people think since other MMOs with Chat bubbles show that it's not that bad at all unless everyone is literally on top of each other chatting at the same time like 100 people in a tavern or something like that.

[RopeDrink]

This is probably just me being an RP centric guy and being spoiled by all of the community made addons that were in WoW, but man, I feel like if the dev team was more supportive of community made Addons, it would make this game even better.

The only way that would be true is for very basic and cosmetic QOL, like UI improvements.

Let's be honest. If you're going to mention WoW + Addons together, then it's going to be things like Deadly Boss Mods, Damage Meters, and all the things that have put Blizzard (and the players) into a bad corner.

Freely allowing that sort of thing means Blizz have to account for it in their own fight designs, and by extension, addons pretty much become mandatory if you wish to take any kind of content seriously.

As a result, new players are lamped with more barriers and the game becomes somewhat less accessible, whereas in FFXIV, those issues don't exist and you can dive right in, and the developers don't have to spend as much time considering external sources when creating their content.

If you want a DPS meter, you can get one easily, but you are expected to keep it hush, because nobody has time for people bludgeoning other players or stroking their ego with a damage-meter-stick, and you don't have to worry about whether Joe Soap or Jane Bloggs has [insert addons here] before doing certain content, or updating 20+ addons every time there's a new patch, and so forth.

Honestly, I'm sick and tired of worrying about addons every time I head back to WoW.

[miqz]

Originally posted by casuality:

Originally posted by miqz:

And how was anything i said beyond that? might not have pointed it out this time but that doesn't still change that squares gm's are also more often than not absolutely useless and reporting people is much harder than it should be
Towards bots, of course you dont see them cause they run around in 20 character trains in some servers clipped underground to farm mobs/xp, the game is absolutely infested with bots and square does absolutely nothing about it, even non botfarmers just run bots for days on end without catching bans

Can you post proof that the game is infested with bots? Sounds like those flat earther types that assert something is true without any evidence to support their claims. :cuphead:

M8 i've got no need or desire to prove anything to you, you're free to live in your little bubble where you pretend that every single popular marketboard doesn't have new alts spamming RMT sites every day, the fact that they can just literally run underground is why you dont see them that often outside of situations like when balmung opens' up and is filled with tons of sprouts suddenly following eachother
And even beyond that i KNOW people who bot, who've never gotten any repercussions of it cause square just doesn't do anything about it

[Veezora]

Originally posted by miqz:

M8 i've got no need or desire to prove anything to you, you're free to live in your little bubble where you pretend that every single popular marketboard doesn't have new alts spamming RMT sites every day, the fact that they can just literally run underground is why you dont see them that often outside of situations like when balmung opens' up and is filled with tons of sprouts suddenly following eachother
And even beyond that i KNOW people who bot, who've never gotten any repercussions of it cause square just doesn't do anything about it

What would you recommend Square do to address or permanently solve botting?
Free trials are already limited in their functions to prevent bots using them for gold farming/tells.
Some in-game sensors may detect if your character moves too quickly (teleporting) and take action.
RMT accounts DO have action taken on them, with large numbers being banned in waves. Nevertheless, they do persist, because there is an industry dedicated to this stuff.
GMs and GM time are limited, and to go around squashing every bot directly is untenable.

It may not seem like it, but the botting issue has massively improved since the early days of the game, where every few moments you would receive a /tell from a gold seller, leading many people to disable the feature until they implemented reporting from the chat log, and the sweeping change was.. silence. I can't recall the last time I had a bot message me directly. So yes, it still persists, but to say Square takes no action to counter it is untrue.

[miqz]

Originally posted by Veezora:

Originally posted by miqz:

M8 i've got no need or desire to prove anything to you, you're free to live in your little bubble where you pretend that every single popular marketboard doesn't have new alts spamming RMT sites every day, the fact that they can just literally run underground is why you dont see them that often outside of situations like when balmung opens' up and is filled with tons of sprouts suddenly following eachother
And even beyond that i KNOW people who bot, who've never gotten any repercussions of it cause square just doesn't do anything about it

What would you recommend Square do to address or permanently solve botting?
Free trials are already limited in their functions to prevent bots using them for gold farming/tells.
Some in-game sensors may detect if your character moves too quickly (teleporting) and take action.
RMT accounts DO have action taken on them, with large numbers being banned in waves. Nevertheless, they do persist, because there is an industry dedicated to this stuff.
GMs and GM time are limited, and to go around squashing every bot directly is untenable.

It may not seem like it, but the botting issue has massively improved since the early days of the game, where every few moments you would receive a /tell from a gold seller, leading many people to disable the feature until they implemented reporting from the chat log, and the sweeping change was.. silence. I can't recall the last time I had a bot message me directly. So yes, it still persists, but to say Square takes no action to counter it is untrue.

Except that it's not, they could do the literal same thing that any other games does towards botting
You can do all your gathering with a script and there's practically no chance of you ever catching a ban, it's gotten worse over time, why would they message you directly when they can just print gil with other means
Every singular house placard before the change aswell, 100% had bots clicking it, it's how a lot of people scam said bots out of cash by using retainers. Square is absolutely incompetent even compared to blizzard with dealing with bots

[causality]

Originally posted by miqz:

Originally posted by casuality:

Can you post proof that the game is infested with bots? Sounds like those flat earther types that assert something is true without any evidence to support their claims.

M8 i've got no need or desire to prove anything to you

Good luck convincing anyone, much less SE without proof then.

[Oberon]

Originally posted by miqz:

Originally posted by Veezora:

What would you recommend Square do to address or permanently solve botting?
Free trials are already limited in their functions to prevent bots using them for gold farming/tells.
Some in-game sensors may detect if your character moves too quickly (teleporting) and take action.
RMT accounts DO have action taken on them, with large numbers being banned in waves. Nevertheless, they do persist, because there is an industry dedicated to this stuff.
GMs and GM time are limited, and to go around squashing every bot directly is untenable.

It may not seem like it, but the botting issue has massively improved since the early days of the game, where every few moments you would receive a /tell from a gold seller, leading many people to disable the feature until they implemented reporting from the chat log, and the sweeping change was.. silence. I can't recall the last time I had a bot message me directly. So yes, it still persists, but to say Square takes no action to counter it is untrue.

Except that it's not, they could do the literal same thing that any other games does towards botting

So...less than what they're doing now? Because bots are a problem in every game.

[♠♣The Jester♣♠]

Originally posted by titus:

This is probably just me being an RP centric guy and being spoiled by all of the community made addons that were in WoW, but man, I feel like if the dev team was more supportive of community made Addons, it would make this game even better. I understand that they want to prevent the optimization/automation of gameplay like raiding through parsing addons and damage numbers etc. , but what about the other stuff?

To give an example: I absolutely hate that this game does not have chat bubbles.. I remember seeing on Reddit before that some people prefer it being this way because Limsa would be "flooded with text on screen" but I don't think that would be as big of a problem as people think since other MMOs with Chat bubbles show that it's not that bad at all unless everyone is literally on top of each other chatting at the same time like 100 people in a tavern or something like that.

You can use add-ons, mods, and G-shade if you wish. The only difference is, if you use a mod that directly changes character models(ex. changing a Miqo'te tail into a fox tail)or falsely advertise the game that isn't a representation of the original product, that will 100% be a permanent ban.

[Sneep Snorp]

Addons are allowed just not offically endorsed as others have said. As long as its not something insane like that tells you what to do or guides you to hidden things but more along the lines of something like a damage meter its fine. The players that are banned for things like damage meters arent banned because they are using a damage meter its since theyll harass other players about their dps.

[Evilmincer]

When I am work, I use Ubuntu OS. So I have to use the Dalumud client in order to play. Now Dalumud client has a lot of addons you can use. However, if you come across addons that give you an unfair advantage over other players, and the staff finds out about it. You can get banned temporarily or perma.

Addons that can get you banned.
Anything that enhances visuals for nodes.
Anything that has indicators on what you need to do next.
Any kind of automation (bot) no matter how small it is.

Things that I have that I never got suspended over.
Quest Completest. (list quests that I haven't completed in certain lines)
Bag Organizer (auto sorts)

[Igni]

I would argue it also depends on how attached you are to your account.

If you spend thousands of hours, mostly on a single character unlocking lots of content for that character, you might be less inclined to take any risks because you have a lot to lose.

The same can be said for players who invest in the mogstation items. When you put hundreds of dollars into the game/sub/additional items, it seems silly to take risks.

And... that is what it is, a risk.

Will something happen to you if you have plugins for individual use that is not impacting other's enjoyment? Probably not.

Will something happen to you if you mention you have plugins or share information about it? Maybe, especially if the other party takes offense.

Will something happen to you if you start posting screenshots or videos of your mods in action? Probably (with exclusions such as graphics)

[Stormy Dawn]

Originally posted by DantesLight:

I would argue it also depends on how attached you are to your account.

If you spend thousands of hours, mostly on a single character unlocking lots of content for that character, you might be less inclined to take any risks because you have a lot to lose.

The same can be said for players who invest in the mogstation items. When you put hundreds of dollars into the game/sub/additional items, it seems silly to take risks.

And... that is what it is, a risk.

Will something happen to you if you have plugins for individual use that is not impacting other's enjoyment? Probably not.

Will something happen to you if you mention you have plugins or share information about it? Maybe, especially if the other party takes offense.

Will something happen to you if you start posting screenshots or videos of your mods in action? Probably (with exclusions such as graphics)

It kinda works the other way, too, though.

Sometimes you play so much you want to "spice up" your experience (for lack of a better term) with some add ons, mods and enhancements to liven up your experience and prevent things from becoming too dull, too quickly.

[galacticcorgi]

ReShade is explicitly allowed, IIRC, because it's an overlay that makes the game look different.

[Sardorim]

Add-ons would be bad.

Look at WoW.

Raids and the such are now designed around the assumption that EVERYONE has to use all the top add-ons. Many boss encounters will not do big tells as the Devs assumed you'll use the add-on that gives the Boss tells to you and tell you what to do.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Anakha:

ReShade is explicitly allowed, IIRC, because it's an overlay that makes the game look different.

I don't think it is. GShade lists the game as "whitelisted", meaning that they directly support FFXIV. A lot of people misinterpret this to mean that the FFXIV devs have explicitly stated that they're okay with people using GShade.

That being said, they clearly don't care if people use ReShade or Gshade because they've shared screenshots that were taken using these shaders in the past.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by Sardorim:

Add-ons would be bad.

Look at WoW.

Raids and the such are now designed around the assumption that EVERYONE has to use all the top add-ons. Many boss encounters will not do big tells as the Devs assumed you'll use the add-on that gives the Boss tells to you and tell you what to do.

WoW bad therefore addons bad.

Already a thing BTW. https://github.com/quisquous/cactbot