FINAL FANTASY XIV Online

FINAL FANTASY XIV Online

Tito 20 ABR 2022 a las 6:43 p. m.
Why so anti-addon?
This is probably just me being an RP centric guy and being spoiled by all of the community made addons that were in WoW, but man, I feel like if the dev team was more supportive of community made Addons, it would make this game even better. I understand that they want to prevent the optimization/automation of gameplay like raiding through parsing addons and damage numbers etc. , but what about the other stuff?

To give an example: I absolutely hate that this game does not have chat bubbles.. I remember seeing on Reddit before that some people prefer it being this way because Limsa would be "flooded with text on screen" but I don't think that would be as big of a problem as people think since other MMOs with Chat bubbles show that it's not that bad at all unless everyone is literally on top of each other chatting at the same time like 100 people in a tavern or something like that.
Última edición por Tito; 20 ABR 2022 a las 6:46 p. m.
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Mostrando 181-195 de 297 comentarios
Atlas 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:28 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por MOSLEY:
Publicado originalmente por Anakha:
ReShade is explicitly allowed, IIRC, because it's an overlay that makes the game look different.

I don't think it is. GShade lists the game as "whitelisted", meaning that they directly support FFXIV. A lot of people misinterpret this to mean that the FFXIV devs have explicitly stated that they're okay with people using GShade.

That being said, they clearly don't care if people use ReShade or Gshade because they've shared screenshots that were taken using these shaders in the past.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/86742-ENB-Injector-for-FFXIV-%28wip%29?p=1408111&viewfull=1#post1408111

"Utilizing such a tool would not violate any agreements customers have with Square Enix, and we don't plan on doing anything to restrict users from accessing it.

The thing to remember when it comes to things like ReShade, G-Shade, ENBs, overlays (Discord, Steam, GeForce etc), is that they are fine because they do not read or modify game files at any point. They all hook into DirectX directly, which is not protected in the TOS. They are not disallowed in the current Terms of Service. They won't actively endorse them, however, because that just invites risk on their part in case people have technical issues from using things like that. Their TOS very clearly disallows anything that reads or modifies the game directly, and things like Discord or ReShade / G-Shade do not do that.
Última edición por Atlas; 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:29 a. m.
Aphelium 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:32 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Atlas:
Publicado originalmente por MOSLEY:

I don't think it is. GShade lists the game as "whitelisted", meaning that they directly support FFXIV. A lot of people misinterpret this to mean that the FFXIV devs have explicitly stated that they're okay with people using GShade.

That being said, they clearly don't care if people use ReShade or Gshade because they've shared screenshots that were taken using these shaders in the past.

https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/86742-ENB-Injector-for-FFXIV-%28wip%29?p=1408111&viewfull=1#post1408111

"Utilizing such a tool would not violate any agreements customers have with Square Enix, and we don't plan on doing anything to restrict users from accessing it.

The thing to remember when it comes to things like ReShade, G-Shade, ENBs, overlays (Discord, Steam, GeForce etc), is that they are fine because they do not read or modify game files at any point. They all hook into DirectX directly, which is not protected in the TOS. They are not disallowed in the current Terms of Service. They won't actively endorse them, however, because that just invites risk on their part in case people have technical issues from using things like that. Their TOS very clearly disallows anything that reads or modifies the game directly, and things like Discord or ReShade / G-Shade do not do that.
Sane people will not say things like "Discord is third party" or "But Muh Gshade" As we know it's permitted.
What bothers most people, for what I've seen, Is that people openly taking screenshots with body mods, NSFW mods, clothing mods, etc. are virtue signaling others that have party buff timers and such. What bothers them is the blatant hypocresy and stupidity some people are displaying.
weiss 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:38 a. m. 
The thing to remember when it comes to things like ReShade, G-Shade, ENBs, overlays (Discord, Steam, GeForce etc), is that they are fine because they do not read or modify game files at any point. They all hook into DirectX directly, which is not protected in the TOS. They are not disallowed in the current Terms of Service. They won't actively endorse them, however, because that just invites risk on their part in case people have technical issues from using things like that. Their TOS very clearly disallows anything that reads or modifies the game directly, and things like Discord or ReShade / G-Shade do not do that.

i still remember where yoshida joked about those MMO mouse part too. where he said that we would need to ban those aswell because they have a 3rd party tool to modify the mouse buttons which THEN affect ingame the controls and giving you actively an adventage over someone which does not use a mouse with multible buttons.
the video i mean is this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU
he mentitions it at around the 4minute mark. (ya need to activate subtitles tho)
its aswell the famous video where he joked about discord aswell and why not ban discord too etc.
Aphelium 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:40 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
The thing to remember when it comes to things like ReShade, G-Shade, ENBs, overlays (Discord, Steam, GeForce etc), is that they are fine because they do not read or modify game files at any point. They all hook into DirectX directly, which is not protected in the TOS. They are not disallowed in the current Terms of Service. They won't actively endorse them, however, because that just invites risk on their part in case people have technical issues from using things like that. Their TOS very clearly disallows anything that reads or modifies the game directly, and things like Discord or ReShade / G-Shade do not do that.

i still remember where yoshida joked about those MMO mouse part too. where he said that we would need to ban those aswell because they have a 3rd party tool to modify the mouse buttons which THEN affect ingame the controls and giving you actively an adventage over someone which does not use a mouse with multible buttons.
the video i mean is this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU
he mentitions it at around the 4minute mark. (ya need to activate subtitles tho)
its aswell the famous video where he joked about discord aswell and why not ban discord too etc.
They mentioned those as an example of how broad the deffinition of "3rd party" is, and why they said "nothing is permitted".
They never intended people to say that discord or ghsade are 3rd partys and hence not allowed unironically, something that bothers me that people is doing right now.
weiss 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:44 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aphelium:
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:

i still remember where yoshida joked about those MMO mouse part too. where he said that we would need to ban those aswell because they have a 3rd party tool to modify the mouse buttons which THEN affect ingame the controls and giving you actively an adventage over someone which does not use a mouse with multible buttons.
the video i mean is this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU
he mentitions it at around the 4minute mark. (ya need to activate subtitles tho)
its aswell the famous video where he joked about discord aswell and why not ban discord too etc.
They mentioned those as an example of how broad the deffinition of "3rd party" is, and why they said "nothing is permitted".
They never intended people to say that discord or ghsade are 3rd partys and hence not allowed unironically, something that bothers me that people is doing right now.
yes, i know. but you know how peoples are. hence why i said "he was more joking about it" and yet come still peoples with "why not banning discord then?" >_>.
Aphelium 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:47 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
Publicado originalmente por Aphelium:
They mentioned those as an example of how broad the deffinition of "3rd party" is, and why they said "nothing is permitted".
They never intended people to say that discord or ghsade are 3rd partys and hence not allowed unironically, something that bothers me that people is doing right now.
yes, i know. but you know how peoples are. hence why i said "he was more joking about it" and yet come still peoples with "why not banning discord then?" >_>.
Most people do not say that unironically, they are also using it as an example of it being a 3rd party addon that helps with clears
Xeno comes to mind, as he was totally right stating that it is a 3rd party, and it DOES help with clears, as having voice communication helps a ton. he doesn't believe it should be banned "duh" but since the refusal to specify what is allowed, and what is not in text, the 3rd party is still so ample, that you cannot be sure what to use what what not to.

He was making a point, he doesn't think people that use discord should be banned.
weiss 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:51 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aphelium:
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
yes, i know. but you know how peoples are. hence why i said "he was more joking about it" and yet come still peoples with "why not banning discord then?" >_>.
Most people do not say that unironically, they are also using it as an example of it being a 3rd party addon that helps with clears
Xeno comes to mind, as he was totally right stating that it is a 3rd party, and it DOES help with clears, as having voice communication helps a ton. he doesn't believe it should be banned "duh" but since the refusal to specify what is allowed, and what is not in text, the 3rd party is still so ample, that you cannot be sure what to use what what not to.

He was making a point, he doesn't think people that use discord should be banned.
i dont think that it really helps with clears, sure. it makes the communication easier but ... discord has a delay aswell and peoples may hear things 1~up to 5 seconds later depending on their connection etc. if the raidleader cant compensate that is discord useless xD.
Aphelium 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:55 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
Publicado originalmente por Aphelium:
Most people do not say that unironically, they are also using it as an example of it being a 3rd party addon that helps with clears
Xeno comes to mind, as he was totally right stating that it is a 3rd party, and it DOES help with clears, as having voice communication helps a ton. he doesn't believe it should be banned "duh" but since the refusal to specify what is allowed, and what is not in text, the 3rd party is still so ample, that you cannot be sure what to use what what not to.

He was making a point, he doesn't think people that use discord should be banned.
i dont think that it really helps with clears, sure. it makes the communication easier but ... discord has a delay aswell and peoples may hear things 1~up to 5 seconds later depending on their connection etc. if the raidleader cant compensate that is discord useless xD.
Having a shot caller in discord 100% helps. I'd say is even better than cacbot.

IDK what connection you're used to, but 1 second voice delay it's only for side to side of the planet. If your discord is having 5 seconds delay, you shouldn't be playing online games, lol. That means something is really wrong with your connection, and you'd be laggin to hell and back.
Oberon 13 MAY 2022 a las 8:59 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
The thing to remember when it comes to things like ReShade, G-Shade, ENBs, overlays (Discord, Steam, GeForce etc), is that they are fine because they do not read or modify game files at any point. They all hook into DirectX directly, which is not protected in the TOS. They are not disallowed in the current Terms of Service. They won't actively endorse them, however, because that just invites risk on their part in case people have technical issues from using things like that. Their TOS very clearly disallows anything that reads or modifies the game directly, and things like Discord or ReShade / G-Shade do not do that.

i still remember where yoshida joked about those MMO mouse part too. where he said that we would need to ban those aswell because they have a 3rd party tool to modify the mouse buttons which THEN affect ingame the controls and giving you actively an adventage over someone which does not use a mouse with multible buttons.
the video i mean is this here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_i6mjiGerU
he mentitions it at around the 4minute mark. (ya need to activate subtitles tho)
its aswell the famous video where he joked about discord aswell and why not ban discord too etc.

To be fair, he's joked about a lot of things that he ended up doing anyway. He played off FC rank 30 as a joke right before he did it anyway. He can be hard to read sometimes.
weiss 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:02 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Aphelium:
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
i dont think that it really helps with clears, sure. it makes the communication easier but ... discord has a delay aswell and peoples may hear things 1~up to 5 seconds later depending on their connection etc. if the raidleader cant compensate that is discord useless xD.
Having a shot caller in discord 100% helps. I'd say is even better than cacbot.

IDK what connection you're used to, but 1 second voice delay it's only for side to side of the planet. If your discord is having 5 seconds delay, you shouldn't be playing online games, lol. That means something is really wrong with your connection, and you'd be laggin to hell and back.
i didnt said that i have those issues. however, i am aware of the delay.
for example; i play with an australian friend a lot FF14 together, we do nearly everyday the daily roulettes together etc. when i start talking comes it a split second later into his hear. thats already enough to tell someone too late that he should go now to the A mark because of how FF14´s snapshot mechanic works AoE wise.

sure is an experienced raidleader better then cactbot. because he knows when what happens and thats how he leads the group and that the group is aware of what comes BUT!
he can make mistakes aswell while cactbot would be perfect on point with its callouts.

so in my opinion is cactbot way more worse then discord. because discord gives you still the possibility of human mistakes/errors while cactbot dosnt has those mistakes except the creators of said plugin did something wrong.
Última edición por weiss; 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:09 a. m.
Delta 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:31 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por The Mayor of Murder Town:
Publicado originalmente por Delta:
The video is irrelevant as it is not obtained through any Square Enix owned or ran systems.

So they should ignore proof that someone is violating TOS just because they don't own the source?

If actually law enforcement won't go after people for breaking laws on Twitch and Twitter because they know it won't hold up as valid evidence then neither can Square.

Fyi I am speaking of the many Twitch Streamers who openly gambled on Twitch while also living in places where gambling of any type is against the law and comes with jail time.

Or the many people who post on Twitch or Twitter Drinking(While under 21) and smoking pot( Very against the law at the time when the posts were made)

None of which saw any legal action taken against them.
Delta 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:36 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Silamon:
Publicado originalmente por Chiro:
he is just ignorant ... i slapped the ToS of FF14 into his face and he seriously said "irrelevant" ......... and many more dots
i dare to bet that you can not change his opinion even if a lawyer would say into his face "sorry but Square Enix would win here"
he would probably argue with that lawyer even tho the lawyer has a Juris Doctor (JD) diploma and delta has not ... >_>.
ToS tends to not hold up in court because it is a forced contract that most people don't bother to read.

In this case though, I think it would be allowed. It is stated many times in many places that mods are not allowed, he was clearly using mods on stream, theres not much room for debate on it.

Nope, they say not to use any type of third party tool which is ambiguity which is only a benefit to the person being affected by the contract and not the writer.

Thus it would be thrown out or the court would demand that Square defines it more clearly an comes back then the judge would decide if it implies or not.

Ps. There is no way it would imply no matter how they change it due to the fact anything that isn't FF14 would count as a 3rd party tool.
weiss 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:41 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Delta:
Publicado originalmente por Silamon:
ToS tends to not hold up in court because it is a forced contract that most people don't bother to read.

In this case though, I think it would be allowed. It is stated many times in many places that mods are not allowed, he was clearly using mods on stream, theres not much room for debate on it.

Nope, they say not to use any type of third party tool which is ambiguity which is only a benefit to the person being affected by the contract and not the writer.

Thus it would be thrown out or the court would demand that Square defines it more clearly an comes back then the judge would decide if it implies or not.

Ps. There is no way it would imply no matter how they change it due to the fact anything that isn't FF14 would count as a 3rd party tool.
delta, give up you are not a lawyer nor did you studied the stuff. many peoples told you already how wrong you are ... srsly.

anyways, like yoshida said in the video which i posted. he dosnt wants all this because of the efficiency thing. if they would accept the whole thing and saying nothing against it would FF14 quickly end up like World of Warcraft. noone of the FF14 community wants that nor want the FF14 devs that this happens.

the stuff which happens in WoW happens already too often behind curtains in FF14.
i heard from a case from a friend that he got kicked because the raidleader said "as samurai do you too less dps, bye" he ofcourse reported the whole situation but how the outcome was gets sadly not told by GM´s. sometimes wish i they are allowed to tell depending on how severe the harassment was xD.
Última edición por weiss; 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:42 a. m.
Oberon 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:42 a. m. 
Publicado originalmente por Delta:
Publicado originalmente por The Mayor of Murder Town:

So they should ignore proof that someone is violating TOS just because they don't own the source?

If actually law enforcement won't go after people for breaking laws on Twitch and Twitter

They're too busy committing extrajudicial murders for things that aren't actually crimes.

Oh but also there have been more than a few arrests because of people posting their crimes on Facebook. But I guess you planned on ignoring that.

Publicado originalmente por Delta:
then neither can Square.

And yet it works just fine for SE anyway. Is it really so difficult to not stream yourself breaking TOS?
Última edición por Oberon; 13 MAY 2022 a las 9:44 a. m.
AI Player 1 13 MAY 2022 a las 11:05 a. m. 
It seems weird to me to conflate a private business enforcing a ToS and actual police enforcing laws. They really aren't the same things at all.

When they say "no add-ons allowed" that gives them free reign to enforce however they see fit. By making a broad blanket statement, they ensure nothing they don't want can be loopholed or allowed on a technicality. There is no legal comparison to be made.
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Publicado el: 20 ABR 2022 a las 6:43 p. m.
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