Mentor Voting System

[Sir McCannonarms]

I'm going to forgo the typical conversation starter about mentors and just get on with the idea.

Would it be beneficial for Square Enix to implement a separate voting system for mentors that all non-mentors can partake in after a dungeon/trial/etc? Would be similar to the commendation system but would allow players to leave a positive or negative vote. If a mentor accrued enough negative votes they would lose their mentor status for "x time" (e.g. couldn't use the symbol, mentor chat or use the mentor roulette). On the other hand, if you got a certain amount of positive votes during a period of time (each week), you would receive a bonus of some sort (xp, tombstones, gil, items, whatever.)

Just tired of running into people parading around with a symbol that is supposed to indicate their willingness to help others when often they are not. It's unfortunate because, without a doubt, there are great mentors who really care about helping sprouts and other players in general but there seems to be a good deal of individuals that tarnish the symbol.

Anyways, rant and idea over.

*Note: If you were in a party prior to the queue, those players couldn't vote for you in the same way you cannot when commending someone.

[Oberon]

Escrito originalmente por 357 Magnum Ace:

I agree with the others that it'll be abused if there is an institutionalized stick.

Almost certainly, if not by trolls, then by people who just hate mentors in general, of which there is a pretty sizable amount.

[Mad Marduk]

Escrito originalmente por Sir McCannonarms:

Man I hit a nerve apparently.
It's an MMORPG man, everyone has a role. You don't have to adhere to it if you don't want to. But if you're a DPS your main purpose is to deal damage, if you're a tank your main goal is to pull and maintain enmity, if you're a healer your objective is to keep the party alive.

You found the bad mentor that your OP was talking about I guess. And all the new heals/dps that party with him will have that poor example to follow.

[Oberon]

Escrito originalmente por Mad Marduk:

Escrito originalmente por Sir McCannonarms:

Man I hit a nerve apparently.
It's an MMORPG man, everyone has a role. You don't have to adhere to it if you don't want to. But if you're a DPS your main purpose is to deal damage, if you're a tank your main goal is to pull and maintain enmity, if you're a healer your objective is to keep the party alive.

You found the bad mentor that your OP was talking about I guess. And all the new heals/dps that party with him will have that poor example to follow.

Seriously. Like I said before, I don't know how "the tank is the one who should be pulling enemies" is a statement that someone could argue with.

[357 Magnum Ace]

Escrito originalmente por The Mayor of Murder Town:

Escrito originalmente por 357 Magnum Ace:

I agree with the others that it'll be abused if there is an institutionalized stick.

Almost certainly, if not by trolls, then by people who just hate mentors in general, of which there is a pretty sizable amount.

I can't really blame some players for the sentiment. I usually keep my crown off and am content to just give the XP bonus and some guiding words if we are wiping. Which actually isn't that often.

[weiss]

Why? Dungeon pulls don't last long enough for a healer to run out of MP. They just need to press lucid dreaming at about 75% and then press it again on CD. They should be above 50% MP for most of the dungeon.

tell this the whm crybabys which refuse to use solace, rupture, assize and co because using that is a potency loss, am not kidding, look at this comment https://gyazo.com/b9e3bed7dfe2e44878ad3bc58ff7f61b

WHM´s like that deserve to get out of MP and never get MP back and their mp pool should be forever empty because they complain about 85 and 100 potency loss rather then spending 0 mp for a solace or rupture that they never can continue playing healer. ... i really cant understand WHM´s lately, they complain about MP issues but answer themselfs why they have MP issues >_>.

sorry for the offtopic but i had to show this torwards mosleys comment xD.

[Sunny]

Dungeons are easier and faster when everyone knows their role and just does it. Is this 100% true 100% of the time? No. Is it close enough for casual gameplay? For the love of little green apples, yes.

[Oberon]

Escrito originalmente por Chiro:

Why? Dungeon pulls don't last long enough for a healer to run out of MP. They just need to press lucid dreaming at about 75% and then press it again on CD. They should be above 50% MP for most of the dungeon.

tell this the whm crybabys which refuse to use solace, rupture, assize and co because using that is a potency loss, am not kidding, look at this comment https://gyazo.com/b9e3bed7dfe2e44878ad3bc58ff7f61b

WHM´s like that deserve to get out of MP and never get MP back and their mp pool should be forever empty because they complain about 85 and 100 potency loss rather then spending 0 mp for a solace or rupture that they never can continue playing healer. ... i really cant understand WHM´s lately, they complain about MP issues but answer themselfs why they have MP issues >_>.

sorry for the offtopic but i had to show this torwards mosleys comment xD.

It's one of those things where a statement is technically true but is taken at face value. People are told that Afflatus Rapture is a potency loss, which is technically true, but it ignores that it's only actually true if you spam Solace just for the flowers. Using Solace instead of Cure 2 when you need to heal someone, and it's no longer a problem.

The point about Assize being a potency loss is just...baffling, to be honest.

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Chiro:

Why? Dungeon pulls don't last long enough for a healer to run out of MP. They just need to press lucid dreaming at about 75% and then press it again on CD. They should be above 50% MP for most of the dungeon.

tell this the whm crybabys which refuse to use solace, rupture, assize and co because using that is a potency loss, am not kidding, look at this comment https://gyazo.com/b9e3bed7dfe2e44878ad3bc58ff7f61b

WHM´s like that deserve to get out of MP and never get MP back and their mp pool should be forever empty because they complain about 85 and 100 potency loss rather then spending 0 mp for a solace or rupture that they never can continue playing healer. ... i really cant understand WHM´s lately, they complain about MP issues but answer themselfs why they have MP issues >_>.

sorry for the offtopic but i had to show this torwards mosleys comment xD.

WHM only really has MP issues in savage. Dungeon pulls don't last long enough and dungeon bosses don't require enough healing.

I imagine that person is advocating for tetra, bene, assize, liturgy, asylum, etc. over afflatus as those don't eat a GCD (or MP). Whatever point they were trying to make about assize is just wrong. It's an oGCD on a job that doesn't have to weave much. I guess they don't play WHM much.

[Nuheni]

From september :

Escrito originalmente por je suis:

Thumbs up or thumbs down given in a message after the run, that would not go away until you voted.
* (Insert name here) was your mentor during this event, please rate his / her / their performance.*
Maybe a small reward like a title for x number of likes, and warnings and eventually bans for x number of dislikes.
Of course some people would rate down, no matter how good the mentor actually where, but it would be better than nothing.

So yeah, i agree

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Escrito originalmente por The Mayor of Murder Town:

Seriously. Like I said before, I don't know how "the tank is the one who should be pulling enemies" is a statement that someone could argue with.

Because it isn't. Tank IS the leader and this was already explained before. People follow the leading person and I see nothing wrong with someone leading the party. No need for chaos with everyone trying to pull when it doesn't do anything better for the party or for the tank.

I can hardly believe you both argued with each others AGAIN for so long about something like this. Reading both your posts, you're the one who's right and as I said before, tank and healer need to work together to make the party's experience better. Tank is leader, healer is tank's support and DPS are the killing tools of both. Not sure why it's hard to understand to some.

Oh, come on. Healers have DoTs that they need to put up ASAP so that they can heal. Waiting for the tank to pull for you so you don't bruise their ego is silly. It's a lot easier for the tank to take aggro than it is for a healer to get their DoTs up.

And tAnK sEtS tHe PaCe is abritrary. If the rest of the team wants to go faster, they shouldn't be bottlenecked by the person who has to press 2 buttons and cycle buffs. No one wants to spend 25 minutes in Sastasha instead of 10 because the BK mentor with all 90s wants to single pull.

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Escrito originalmente por MOSLEY:

Oh, come on. Healers have DoTs that they need to put up ASAP so that they can heal. Waiting for the tank to pull for you so you don't bruise their ego is silly. It's a lot easier for the tank to take aggro than it is for a healer to get their DoTs up.

And tAnK sEtS tHe PaCe is abritrary. If the rest of the team wants to go faster, they shouldn't be bottlenecked by the person who has to press 2 buttons and cycle buffs. No one wants to spend 25 minutes in Sastasha instead of 10 because the BK mentor with all 90s wants to single pull.

Oh, come on indeed. Sometimes I wonder if you really play this game. You can assume all worst scenarios you want, tank remains the leader. And they ARE the ones who set the pace. Why would it be any different? If the rest of the team wants to go faster, they're welcome to try. But you'll quickly realise they can't really do much without who? Oh yeah, the tank. lol

So what will it be? Are you going to report the tank for not being comfortable with pulling more? I did satasha and never had any tanks (as healer) that single pulled. Or rarely. Why must you make up situations that seem to benefit your argument when the truth really is not that bad? You can easily run and shoot dots at mobs while tank pulls. Problems...? None...

I mean, that isn't true. Dungeons are casual content. They can be beaten without a tank or healer. If a tank wants to play their toxic "you pull, you tank" game, it will be them that dies (if anyone) because a healer can just apply DoTs, kite and heal themselves, lol.

What does being comfortable with pulling more even mean? Pressing the same 2 button AOE combo that you were pressing before and a mitigation button? I'm not sure what there is to be uncomfortable with. This is like a healer using regen exclusively and telling you that they aren't comfortable with big heals.

The mentor single pulling Sastasha literally happened to me yesterday BTW.

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Escrito originalmente por MOSLEY:

I mean, that isn't true. Dungeons are casual content. They can be beaten without a tank or healer. If a tank wants to play their toxic "you pull, you tank" game, it will be them that dies (if anyone) because a healer can just apply DoTs, kite and heal themselves, lol.

What does being comfortable with pulling more even mean? Pressing the same 2 button AOE combo that you were pressing before and a mitigation button? I'm not sure what there is to be uncomfortable with. This is like a healer using regen exclusively and telling you that they aren't comfortable with big heals.

The mentor single pulling Sastasha literally happened to me yesterday BTW.

Okay so if you can do without a tank, go ahead? I'm just trying to teach people the right way to do things. Tank being the leader, healer being the support and dps being, well, the dps. Before you put any words in my mouth (And I know you didn't YET), i never said or applied the whole "you pull you tank" logic. I try to catch mobs up if a party member pulls them...

But yeah, I've seen party happen without tank and it resulted in everyone dying unless you pull single mobs. That sure would be efficient. /s You make it sound like you've never been tank and I do wonder why. I had anxiety as tank when I started because, believe it or not, tank has a role to play and they have to be good at it. Healer can't save us all the time. >.>

It's like you think being tank is nothing more than pulling and watching things happen and yet, I try to watch both myself and my party or the mobs when I tank. The whole enmity list isn't there just to be pretty. If you lose (somehow) a monster, you have to know how to quick react to catch it back, usually easily with a range attack or a taunt. Still, we have a job to do.

Tank is the one who starts the whole job for the team, it moves ahead and picks up mobs for the rest of the party. Tank is the one who stops the mass from killing everyone. Tank is the one who stops bosses from killing everyone. Tank is the real boss. It's the leader of the pack. Not healer, not DPS. Tank. Let them do their job and make sure you do yours well instead.

I'm not sure why you're trying to explain what a tank is as if I don't have thousands of hours logged on tanks. If someone else pulls something, I don't turn my stance off and sulk. I slap them with AOE and we don't have any problems.

The tank's job is to soak damage. It is not the tank's job to develop main character syndrome and whine if the party doesn't do their bidding.

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Oh and about this. Bad mentors happen. If healer was not comfortable, maybe it was the reason? If you are the healer, work with them and tell them you can heal them fine. Were there other newbies around and he didn't want to rush them? What's the actual story?

I was healing (well, would have been if they had been pulling enough to require it)... There weren't any sprouts in the party but assuming that someone can only handle single pulls in Sastasha because they have a sprout icon next to their name would be incredibly toxic anyway... Honestly, I think they were just forcing the party to go slow because they felt like they could. Some people seem to get a kick out of tanking like my grandma and complaining if anyone asks them to do something differently.

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Escrito originalmente por MOSLEY:

I'm not sure why you're trying to explain what a tank is as if I don't have thousands of hours logged on tanks. If someone else pulls something, I don't turn my stance off and sulk. I slap them with AOE and we don't have any problems.

The tank's job is to soak damage. It is not the tank's job to develop main character syndrome and whine if the party doesn't do their bidding.

Let me make it shorter, then. You sound like you don't know what a tank is. DESPITE having thousands of hours in the game. Also, if you bothered to read, I also made clear I do not quit if someone else pulls either. But... You also spent ALL this time arguing with Mayor then me that a tank's role isn't being a leader or the one that pulls mobs. Not sure I understand. lol.

Just like other times, you take a simple thing and make a BIG deal out of it. There's no need for days long threads on this matter. A tank's role is to lead the party and I've explained all of that. It's not about being main character and never was. It's about leading the party but also working with your healer for the best results. DPS are our offensive teammates. Not hard...

The tank consolidates damage.
The healer heals the tank.
The DPS burn the mobs.

That's how the holy trinity system works. There is no "leader" role.

If the tank isn't leading, someone else probably will. If you're standing near mobs that are usually pulled and people have DoTs to apply as quickly as possible, they're probably going to apply their DoTs. People other than the tank pulling isn't an issue, tank ego is an issue.

Complaining about the length of a conversation that you're actively continuing is an interesting take.

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

So you don't know what being toxic is...? Being a sprout means (sometimes) discovering a dungeons or else for the first time. It's factually not toxic to single pull if you're new. Not sure where you're pulling this out from. Being toxic is when you do something on the purpose of griefing the others or you're straight out rude to others for no reasons. Toxic.

Also, nowhere in your post did you mention a single attempt at communication with them. So you didn't even try to talk with them to tell them that they can go faster? You're gonna assume what they were thinking or you're not telling the whole story. Seriously, come on.

Assuming that someone needs you to go at a snail's pace and hold their hand while doing so is toxic.

I asked them to pull more and they just didn't say anything. If they aren't going to communicate then there isn't much to do except make assumptions.

[MOSLEY]

Escrito originalmente por Seraphita:

Escrito originalmente por MOSLEY:

The tank consolidates damage.
The healer heals the tank.
The DPS burn the mobs.

That's how the holy trinity system works. There is no "leader" role.

If the tank isn't leading, someone else probably will. If you're standing near mobs that are usually pulled and people have DoTs to apply as quickly as possible, they're probably going to apply their DoTs. People other than the tank pulling isn't an issue, tank ego is an issue.

Complaining about the length of a conversation that you're actively continuing is an interesting take.

Keyword: "Complaining". I am pointing out that you're wasting your time ignoring the role of a tank. Not complaining. Pointing out. You have fought with 2+ people about a thing you're wrong about. Don't pretend like parties have no leader roles. Tanks lead because they are the protectors. Healers are the party's support and DPS are the party's offensive team. -.-

You keep saying "the role of the tank" after I explain why that isn't the role of the tank... It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference who pulls the mobs as long as they get pulled. "The role of the tank" is to manage enmity (which the game literally does for them since ShB) and mitigate damage.

[Stormy Dawn]

I do agree the tank should be the one pulling, but it's certainly not the end of the world if either the Healer or DPS end up doing it etiher by accident or because the tank is going too slow or not doing the pull optimally.

Often times when a tank is chain pulling I'm attacking as the tank is still pulling, especially on a ranged class or Summoner. Often times the tank is losing threat to me by the time the pull is complete. Most of the time everything is fine because I'm running to the next pull the same as the tank, I line the mobs up I have incidentally taken threat with the tanks next AOE and bam! Problem solved. Oh on occasion I get a tank who gets mad at me for bruising their ego to which I basically tell them either take a couple seconds between pulls to get a significant threat lead (which annoys me when they do) or just deal with it. I'm not going to limit my up time for your shattered ego.