Finding a reason to call it an mmo.

[Blobby]

This thread is not intended to spoil the game or to offend or insult any people.

It should serve to find something for me that has not yet been found in almost 400 hours of playtime.

I started the game like others, because on the one hand the mmo situation didn't look particularly good up to that point and I wanted to look for something that was fun to play on the one hand and also offered the opportunity to do this with other people. Through various Youtubers and streamers, I came across FF14, which was highly praised at that time. By taking a closer look at the videos and praising the gameplay and community, I gave the game a chance. To myself I can say that I already had various MMOs behind me, from Guildwars, WOW, Tera, Wild Star, Black Desert, Planetside and so on.

Games that I always had fun until the human factor moved more and more into the background through updates and it later felt like a single player game, only with other players who behaved like NPC. No communication, no interaction with each other, mass guilds without the feeling that they need you as a Human beeing eather then a XP bonus push, for the next upgrade.

So, like so many others, I set out to test this game and I had to say that for story, gameplay, graphics, sound and everything else that makes a good game, I would give the game an A +. I was happy to level my characters up to this point, which led to the fact that I also bought the game and the add ons. But after playing more and the more and more dungeons and raids, I got more and more feeling what I tried to ignore at first, and yet later, from my point of view, had very much come true.

Where is the MMO in this game. I'm not talking about the players in the cities who are standing there and waiting for the next invite. Before I even came here, I had various, let's say negative experiences, which is why I asked this question and which brought me to this point to write here.

Let's start with the lvln in the game. The level is designed to be 100% solo, if we leave out the dungeons and raids for a moment. You don't need someone to do the normal things or to get your lvl, which is useful for people who play differently than others because of their work and different jobs. there are also fates that you can handle on your own, which is also good.

However, when we go to the dungeons and raids, you come into real co-op contact with other players for the first time, as these cannot be mastered alone. But something is missing here, which I personally consider important for an MMO and that is a minimum of communication or interaction with one another as people. Every dungeo nrun, every raid begins and ends from beginning to end with just these 3 following words: "Hi, gg, bb" No interaction no nothing. the feeling that the others just don't want to have anything to do with each other, because it would be too laborious to ascribe more now because it would not be worthwhile and cost time. Something that I have unfortunately already seen in other MMOs.

With the boss fates it looks even worse, the people here gather, knock on it and then they all scatter very often without even writing a gg.

I am not saying that everyone is and nobody should feel addressed here, but from the mind that I have already encountered over 200 I had not even the slightest bit of something that could be called an interesting communication at all.

Of course I can imagine what the next say "join an FC, there you will find people with whom you can talk and do something." I also implemented this suggestion because I knew from other MMOs that there would certainly be people there who could know what you can do together and where you can talk. But even here, after an unsuccessful search and a long look and wait, I did not find anything that showed any beginnings, which indicated that it did not work the same as in the dungeons. I visited little Fc who had advertised that they would help newcomers, which was good for me as a newcomer, but every time I found a guild where those who advertised had actually only done their daily and you were now here alone. What is understandable is that as a player you don't need any people apart from the dungeons and raids. And for this you will find people through the tools to pass them.

I had also tried the medium and large FCs and despite the addition of discord, guild housing and so on, it all felt the same. You come on, said hello, tries to find a communication or a reason at all so that the others can talk to you or interact with you in-game and log out after you have passed a few lvl just as lonely as you are logged in.

The worst, however, was when I was able to unlock the mission for my NPC people through the mahlstrom, whom I could accompany into the dungeons myself. That sounded good, but the feeling of walking around with these NPCs seemed to feel the same as with other players up to this point in the game. A rather scary silence which was the same as the dungeon runs with people. And something in me posed the question here. A question e.g. Josh strife hayes also presented himself several times in his videos. I would take something out of a game and replace it with something else. Would I even notice that I am missing it or that it is gone?

In this case, I asked myself the question, if I could now play every dungeon content with npc, would it feel different than it is with the players here at the moment? If you were to ask me the question now, I would answer it with no, because until now I have lacked what defines an MMO, the interaction with people both in-game and outside. Having one reason to master the daily things together, what it seems and the behavior that I have experienced here seem to have been rejected by many for a long time.

This is not my part, on the contrary. When I see that someone has low hp, I get off my mount, switch quickly as a healer and heal the person up so that he or she does not die. Boss fates, where the wipe was about to happen because the tanks died, I tried to help despite everything, even when I wasn't in the group. And I don't do my dailies for dungeons because I get stamps, but because I know that there is someone who, like me, has a long wait and wants to go further. The rewards themselves tend to mess around with me because I don't know what to do with them, since most of it is actually more useless than it would help me.

But, even if I made this little gesture that made an MMO so special, not to get something afterwards, the counter-reaction was the same until now. Helped those who don't die? He / she saddles up without a thank you. Refueled the Fate Boss while the group scratches their people? Not even got a heal and after the down from the boss I was left lying there without anyone giving me at least a thank you. Dungeon corridors? As before, hi gg and with a little luck a bb.

For me, it's something frustrating to play this game right now. The story and what the game offers is fun, but as far as the human factor is concerned, it feels very cold here. This dances. Just not talking because of this, time could be lost. Just don't interact too much. what is important to me in an MMo seems to be very rare here. A picture between day and night to be honest, when you see everyone doing each other and having fun with youtubers and streamers and then outside the camera it looks like it feels very much like two worlds.

What I want and look for is simply the reason why I can call this game a mmo for myself. One part is there, the content of the game, but a single player game also offers something like that. The other part is important and that is a reason to come online and be happy because you know there are people there to have fun with.

But if the main part of the game is designed so that people don't have to interact a lot, the FC only seem good for bonus for people and dungeons and raids serve quick runs, then that is quite frustrating when you expect something like human interaction. As said, I have 400 hours behind me and it feels like a single player game with npc instead of people.

[rank 1 mmo erper]

Holy moly
This could have been summarized in 10 words or less you know.

I have had plenty of chat with people in dungeons, no idea what you're talking about. Mayhap it is you who is sitting in silence?

You have also got to take into consideration that PLENTY of people do not feel comfortable conversing with strangers.

It's your choice at the end of the day if you want to interact with other people to get that social aspect. Just like in real life, nobody is going to come to you. Just because you do not have these experiences, doesn't make it any less of an MMO. People really are complaining that a game gives the player freedom to play how they want...

"I can't make any friends in an online game so I come to the forums to whine about it"

[Blobby]

Nguyên văn bởi Glut:

Nguyên văn bởi Sunny:

It's weird when people rewrite the definitions of things to prove that something isn't what it literally is. MMO has a defined meaning, and "I don't like reality being this way" doesn't somehow magically change the meaning of the words?

It's a massively multiplayer online game. That's what it is. People ignoring your attempts to engage them in a dungeon (you DID make attempts to engage people, right?!) doesn't somehow invalidate that the game...is an MMO. Because it's a massively multiplayer online game. That's literally what it is.

Nguyên văn bởi Kethriss:

Because it's an online game that is massively multiplayer. If you and hundreds of other people are all connected to the same server and playing in the same play space, it's an MMO. Objectively. From the very definition of the genre.

Anything else is a No True Scotsman argument. Just because I can go about my business without being forced to interact with you doesn't make it not an MMO.

I dont think you understand the OP's post. Its about if the game feels like a mmorpg or not. MMOs usually have huge open worlds where you interact with others. I agree with OP, This game doesnt feel like a MMORPG, it feels like a storydriven lobbygame. Not a MMORPG

You could describe it that way. If I consider that the interaction with each other only counts for many, so that one gets there marks/points or progresses in the story, then I could understand why so many tend to have no interest in an interaction. For example, let's take ARR's first two raids, which give 200 to 300 tokens, so people only go in there because of the brands, not because of the game or the interaction with people. You can find the same principle everywhere in the game, which is why the atmosphere here is rather ice cold. I can understand why it is said that the FF 14 community is better than the wow community. If you consider that in the wow chat you were to hear the a ... l " insert skills" jokes and including "your mother" jokes, you basically don't hear anything here.

And if nobody does any communication, you can't say that you are worse in the community than the other game. As I said, I hope it will get better. I am now in Heavensward and so far the same ice cold and inhuman atmosphere is unfortunately here in this part of the game, which is why my hopes for finally some MMO feeling are still open.

[Jim Lahey]

Yet again... This game is as social as you make it.

I just finished having a massive 8 man wrecking crew that I recruited consisting of complete randoms going around and annihilating fates.

Took me a whopping 40 seconds after posting it in /shout in Central Thanalan to get that together.

And guess what, since we had 8 people together, we did some raids that we happened to have quests fro together. Annihilated them as well and then proceeded to go into eachother's quest required dungeons.

It took zero effort to get together. All it took was me being social and using the game's built in chat feature to get it together.

[Sunny]

"Hey folks, how's it going today?"

When I toss that out at the start of a dungeon, like 90% of the time the chat continues for the whole run.

Also, make **1** sassy comment at the start of either of the no-skip-cutscenes dungeons and you will not be able to get people to shut up for the entire run. DING DING DING DING DING DING goes the chat. Such devastation! This was not my intention! If you're lucky you'll start seeing "CID" markers go down, too.

[Rin]

Usually the people that talk (type) the most are the healbots in raids or people just slacking for the sake of slacking and being (or at least hoping to be) carried by having to push 4 buttons tops. In other words; low effort players, as they have plenty of time to type but not willing act out their role in-game.

Then you have the weirdos who only come to talk because they're unsocial irl or happen to be like I dunno... american? Which happen to be an issue in their own way.

[Jim Lahey]

Nguyên văn bởi Bork Bork:

Usually the people that talk (type) the most are the healbots in raids or people just slacking for the sake of slacking and being (or at least hoping to be) carried by having to push 4 buttons tops. In other words; low effort players, as they have plenty of time to type but not willing act out their role in-game.

Then you have the weirdos who only come to talk because they're unsocial irl or happen to be like I dunno... american? Which happen to be an issue in their own way.

You can type and fight at the exact same time if you are smart enough and know how to fight with your controller.

Maybe i'm just gifted then, I can carry a dungeon, chat up a storm while using my full Gunbreaker rotation and all while properly tanking through ex raid mechanics too.


Oh, but guess this, people can also talk between fights as well.


People like you are the very rare and occasional "Toxic" players like your self who come along and just ruin the fun for everybody with comments like these.

[Etraux]

I always find this whole 'game not social' discussion hilarious. Remember when Classsic WoW released and the first thing good ol' 'bring back social element to MMOs' community did was to try and make auto group finder addon work? I member.

But I digress. If you talk to people in games they usually answer. Hell, even Destiny 2, with it's constantly broken chat that nobody uses anyway, people manage to communicate and make friends through sacred Tower Dance Ritual.

Talk to people and you will get your social element or be that guy in the corner from the memes and complain that no one talks to you, it's that simple

[Drakzen]

That's a whole wall of text alright.

It's as social as you want to make it. One issue is that no world chat or grand company chat exists so it depends on how many people are doing stuff in your area.

Many discord channels also exist to make it easier to talk with large groups of people since we have no world chat type thing as well.

[Raansu]

If you wanna chit chat in the middle of a dungeon then get a premade group and chitchat while in discord. No one has time to be typing in chat while trying to fight mobs in a dungeon.

There's plenty of places in the game where you can chat with random players. You're just not going out of your way to interact with people. Instead you want them to instigate the conversation with you.

And yes I'm going to give you the FC comment. Join a FC or a LS. The entire point of them is to form a community. There's a reason the game doesn't have a general chat and its because they want people chatting either locally in /say or in their FC or LS so the chat box doesn't get flooded with 100's of people in a general chat.

Just because you refuse to seek out other players to interact with doesn't mean the game is lacking in MMO content. The problem here is 100% you.

[Tr0w]

Nguyên văn bởi Fluffy Bunny of Despair:

While the zonest in ARR are quite small in comparison, later on they get bigger. ARR was not designed with flying in mind after all.

And sorry, i just do not agree that "open worlds" is a requirement for MMOs.

Not every mmo has a open world structure.

I can see where the complaint is coming from bur to claim MMO = open world is just a bit much. Specially since MMO literally means Massive Multiplayer Online. Not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Map Online.

Gacha? Have you even played the game? i am starting to wonder.

And as for the human interaction you crave. Most of my dungeon runs are filled with chatter. Then again, i don't sit there in silence waiting to judge people as no one writes.
Just play Lalafell and start every dungeon with "Did you know that Lalas are the superior race in ff14? And yes, you may pet me for 300k gil" And i promise you, you will drown in human interaction.

The problem with the world design is that the game was originally designed around the PS3, they've gotten bigger but not by much because now it it's designed around the PS4. Hopefully with the PS5 out the zones will get more interesting in Endwalker.

[Raansu]

Nguyên văn bởi Tr0w:

Nguyên văn bởi Fluffy Bunny of Despair:

While the zonest in ARR are quite small in comparison, later on they get bigger. ARR was not designed with flying in mind after all.

And sorry, i just do not agree that "open worlds" is a requirement for MMOs.

Not every mmo has a open world structure.

I can see where the complaint is coming from bur to claim MMO = open world is just a bit much. Specially since MMO literally means Massive Multiplayer Online. Not ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Map Online.

Gacha? Have you even played the game? i am starting to wonder.

And as for the human interaction you crave. Most of my dungeon runs are filled with chatter. Then again, i don't sit there in silence waiting to judge people as no one writes.
Just play Lalafell and start every dungeon with "Did you know that Lalas are the superior race in ff14? And yes, you may pet me for 300k gil" And i promise you, you will drown in human interaction.

The problem with the world design is that the game was originally designed around the PS3, they've gotten bigger but not by much because now it it's designed around the PS4. Hopefully with the PS5 out the zones will get more interesting in Endwalker.

Endwalker will still be bound by the PS4 limitations, so don't get your hopes up. We wont see optimization's with the PS5 in mind until likely the next expansion when they will phase out the PS4 like they did with the PS3.

[RED-01]

I gave up reading when I got to the ''solo'' part...
Every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MMO I have ever played in my LIFE can be played solo till max level...
All of those games he mentioned I played AND WAY MORE..
FFXIV is still one of the FEW games that to go through the story you HAVE to ally with other people and do dungeons and raids.

''WHY IS IT A MMO?''

Level
Stats
Dungeons/raids
Many people play it and you can find them in BULKS out in the world
Lore/story
And even pvp if you will

These are the pillars of an MMO...I have played MMOs since they exist and they never went out of these parameters..
Then those noobs come on board and they want to present their super IDEAL things of WHAT A MMO IS.
Give me a break lad..gtfo.

[[UPRPRC] Harlequina]

Nguyên văn bởi Dr0W:

The problem is how current day MMO business is nowadays and that's in most games out there.

I play MMOs since it was something completely new and magical to get to play with other people. Since a time where the game was designed to be beaten as a group, not as a single person. I feel you, and I feel sadness when the things you mentioned happen, but those are happening at all modern mmos.

The game is designed for you to be able to play it as a single player game if you wish, and most people nowadays like it that way. It's not that that person wasn't grateful that you healed them: Healing come so easily that they might not even have noticed someone healed them.

That's why I, and many people, went for WoW classic when it was released. For me it was not about the nostalgia of an outdated game with clunky mechanics, but about a game that was designed to be social. People would need to stop, rest, regen mana and they would talk in the meantime. If you were a warrior-like class, you'd kill a lot but you'd need to either rest or spent a ton in healing items. If you had a friend who is a healer, that would mean that you'd be killing at least 3x more while sharing 50% of the exp with him, so it was worth it.

But most people don't want that, they just want to log in, click click and see stuff happen. They don't want to go through the drama of having to have friends when they just want to be able to play a single player game if they wish to.

What you're missing is how MMO games were, back in the day. I hate to be the bearer of sad news but nowadays you'll only find what you're really looking for in old mmos. And in that regard, FFXIV isn't different from any 2021 MMO you'll see out there.

Good post. Yes, the novelty of talking with other people in a big RPG world is gone. It just isn't anything special. People have done it. People talk a lot with others online elsewhere too. There isn't a widespread hunger to socialize in a setting like this anymore.

That doesn't mean you can't do it, People will usually respond if you start something up. It just means the general playerbase won't as often or as actively seek out talking with others about random ♥♥♥♥. They'll just play the game on their own for the most part, because they can.

[Tr0w]

Nguyên văn bởi Elder Druid:

I gave up reading when I got to the ''solo'' part...
Every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MMO I have ever played in my LIFE can be played solo till max level...
All of those games he mentioned I played AND WAY MORE..
FFXIV is still one of the FEW games that to go through the story you HAVE to ally with other people and do dungeons and raids.

''WHY IS IT A MMO?''

Level
Stats
Dungeons/raids
Many people play it and you can find them in BULKS out in the world
Lore/story
And even pvp if you will

These are the pillars of an MMO...I have played MMOs since they exist and they never went out of these parameters..
Then those noobs come on board and they want to present their super IDEAL things of WHAT A MMO IS.
Give me a break lad..gtfo.

Raids only became a pillar with WoW and now they're the the focus of 90% of mmos made which ruins every mmo aspect. If you'd played mmos since they existed you'd know that. in EQ raiding was just players gathering huge groups to take out high level world monsters, there was no infrastructure built around raiding.

[Fluffy Bunny of Despair]

Nguyên văn bởi Tr0w:

Nguyên văn bởi Elder Druid:

I gave up reading when I got to the ''solo'' part...
Every ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MMO I have ever played in my LIFE can be played solo till max level...
All of those games he mentioned I played AND WAY MORE..
FFXIV is still one of the FEW games that to go through the story you HAVE to ally with other people and do dungeons and raids.

''WHY IS IT A MMO?''

Level
Stats
Dungeons/raids
Many people play it and you can find them in BULKS out in the world
Lore/story
And even pvp if you will

These are the pillars of an MMO...I have played MMOs since they exist and they never went out of these parameters..
Then those noobs come on board and they want to present their super IDEAL things of WHAT A MMO IS.
Give me a break lad..gtfo.

Raids only became a pillar with WoW and now they're the the focus of 90% of mmos made which ruins every mmo aspect. If you'd played mmos since they existed you'd know that. in EQ raiding was just players gathering huge groups to take out high level world monsters, there was no infrastructure built around raiding.

So because EQ didn't support proper raiding, raiding destroys mmos?
I fail to follow that logic.
But either way you twist it it falls short anyway.
You can have a good game with raiding. Just as you can have a good game without it. Its just a difference target audience.

I play MMOs since Ultima Online. And for me the big difference is not only player numbers but also balance. Back then, balance wasn't such a main focus.
Ultima Online as Tamer you could destroy tens of players with a dragon.

Games change. Thats just how it is. And how profitable the Mobile market is, i fear, sadly, that we will soon go way more in that direction.