They really dumbed down red mage didnt they?

[Valkurm Emperor]

I've been playing it for a few days now and it's not really a red mage. Most abilities are just variations on "do more damage".

The classic red mage has access to many black and white magic spells. Yet at 56 i have some black magic and a bunch more black magic that the game has decided to call white magic for some reason and 1 actual white magic spell as a single cure. I've also no status effect or enhancing spells. Where's poison, blind, sleep ect?

Im all seriousness i think this job might have been better suited under the job title "Mystic Knight" From FF5.

[Yenkei]

XI was the wild west of MMOs and didn't care so much for it's balance, but It's kind of jobs just wouldn't work in XIV because encounters aren't designed to support that kind of game.

RDM sure isn't a jack of all trades in XIV, but it's still pretty good at soloing content and plays fine for what they were able to do with it. Enfeeblements just don't really exist in XIV in general outside of 'Bad Breath' on BLU and if you count things like 'Reprisal', 'Feint', and 'Addle' from role actions. The only enhancing magic on RDM is a party buff you'll use every 2m, and you will get another white magic spell 'Verraise' later on at 64 (which does work with dualcast).

For the most part RDM in XIV just does damage. They don't have as big of a kit as they do in XI but 'Vercure' and 'Verraise' are both really good utility and help a lot when you need them. It's the only DPS that has that level of support that it has and is really useful in progression, pugs, and in general. 'Verraise' is pretty situational, but 'Vercure' is something you'll use even if you're not using it to heal someone, because it procs dual cast.

Edit: Not saying it's great compared to XI by the way, but XI's RDM is a hell of a standard to be competing against, so just take XIV's version for what you will.

[Drakzen]

Balancing issues. If you give 1 class such as Rdm the full range of skills it will become OP and be the only class worth playing, like in XI where certain classes where better than others.

This can lead to situations where people will get kicked or denied from parties because they aren't X class.

The other option is to have it like Blu currently is, created as it was in their single player games but limited in what content it can do because it is OP.

[Valkurm Emperor]

How about not designing these jobs to be OP? 11 is not the first game to feature RDM. its been around since FF1 and has never been considered OP. BLU is another issue, it was never the most powerful class in XI or other FF games. Designed properly it can work.

Trying to make things perfectly balanced might sound good but it leads to homogenization and a lack of creativity.

[Oberon]

Originally posted by Valkurm Emperor:

Yet at 56 i have some black magic and a bunch more black magic that the game has decided to call white magic for some reason and 1 actual white magic spell as a single cure.

Aero has been White magic more often in the series than Black, while Stone has never been affiliated with any particular alignment. That said, both are signature damage spells of WHM in this game, so maybe that's why.

You're also only six levels in to the job, way to early to complain about its kit. When you've unlocked the enhanced melee combos, VerHoly, and VerFlare, then we can talk.

That said, RDM swapping between melee and spellcasting while also serving as an emergency back-up healer is spot-on with how it was played in FF1.

Originally posted by Valkurm Emperor:

Where's poison, blind, sleep ect?

Bio is a SMN spell, blind is nowhere to be seen, and Sleep is the most useless spell in the game.

[Nico Yazawa]

They dumbed down EVERYTHING in Shadowbringers, we used to meme it by calling it "Casualbringers"

Honestly, it's the expansion that introduced the Easy and Very Easy difficulty for solo instances, so little did we know our meme turned out to be reality.

[Nico Yazawa]

Originally posted by The Mayor of Murder Town:

Originally posted by Valkurm Emperor:

Yet at 56 i have some black magic and a bunch more black magic that the game has decided to call white magic for some reason and 1 actual white magic spell as a single cure.

Aero has been White magic more often in the series than Black, while Stone has never been affiliated with any particular alignment. That said, both are signature damage spells of WHM in this game, so maybe that's why.

You're also only six levels in to the job, way to early to complain about its kit. When you've unlocked the enhanced melee combos, VerHoly, and VerFlare, then we can talk.

That said, RDM swapping between melee and spellcasting while also serving as an emergency back-up healer is spot-on with how it was played in FF1.

Originally posted by Valkurm Emperor:

Where's poison, blind, sleep ect?

Bio is a SMN spell, blind is nowhere to be seen, and Sleep is the most useless spell in the game.

Small correction here, Poison/Blind/Sleep used to be in the game. Still "technically" kind of are.

Poison isn't so much Bio as a dot for ACN/SMN, but it exists as its own thing, Poisoning Potion, Potent Poisoning Potion and etc. They were actually used in early ARR as it was an extra DPS to apply on mobs and fights. Blind used to exist in "Flash" but Gladiator/PLD no longer has that, Blinding Potions still exist I believe. Sleep/Repose still exist, but have very niche uses and point. In early days, Sleep/Repose were killer in PvP as before they neutered PvP, you had your entire toolkit PLUS pvp specific actions, sleeping a group and then using Cometeor was deadly. Outside of PvP, sleep is used rarely in Eureka, don't think it's even necessary (or usable?) in Bozja.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Ninja used to have 2 different kind of poisons to apply to their weapon, but they ended up getting removed.

[Aylon]

Originally posted by Koishi Komeiji:

They dumbed down EVERYTHING in Shadowbringers, we used to meme it by calling it "Casualbringers"

By "We" you mean you and a couple of edgelords on reddit who are way too obsessed with this game despite the fact that you don't even play it.

[✚ Mariel ✚]

RDM is a very easy class to play. It has a simple rotation thats easy to learn and you can do with your eyes closed, it has maneuverability, a personal heal, and a combat res. It makes very short work of story battles. However, in exchange for its ease of use and support capabilities its actually on the low end damage wise of dps classes.

Its an excellent training wheels class for new players but most will graduate to black mage or something for the increased dps. RDM continues to be useful for learning fights though since it aids in raising when players die a lot so they can continue to experience the fight and learn it, and its high maneuverability allows for mistakes in positioning. You would want to swap to a different class when you have the fight on farm though.

[Jin-]

Originally posted by Koishi Komeiji:

They dumbed down EVERYTHING in Shadowbringers, we used to meme it by calling it "Casualbringers"

Honestly, it's the expansion that introduced the Easy and Very Easy difficulty for solo instances, so little did we know our meme turned out to be reality.

Sadly this is true. FFXIV is going WoW Retail route more and more.
Easy and Very Easy were a strange decision since solo instances were already Very Easy level lol and im not even savage player

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Yenkei:

XI was the wild west of MMOs and didn't care so much for it's balance, but It's kind of jobs just wouldn't work in XIV because encounters aren't designed to support that kind of game.

RDM sure isn't a jack of all trades in XIV, but it's still pretty good at soloing content and plays fine for what they were able to do with it. Enfeeblements just don't really exist in XIV in general outside of 'Bad Breath' on BLU and if you count things like 'Reprisal', 'Feint', and 'Addle' from role actions. The only enhancing magic on RDM is a party buff you'll use every 2m, and you will get another white magic spell 'Verraise' later on at 64 (which does work with dualcast).

For the most part RDM in XIV just does damage. They don't have as big of a kit as they do in XI but 'Vercure' and 'Verraise' are both really good utility and help a lot when you need them. It's the only DPS that has that level of support that it has and is really useful in progression, pugs, and in general. 'Verraise' is pretty situational, but 'Vercure' is something you'll use even if you're not using it to heal someone, because it procs dual cast.

Edit: Not saying it's great compared to XI by the way, but XI's RDM is a hell of a standard to be competing against, so just take XIV's version for what you will.

XI wasn't even remotely close to being "the wild west of mmos", That goes to the likes of UO and EvE.

[Yenkei]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

XI wasn't even remotely close to being "the wild west of mmos", That goes to the likes of UO and EvE.

This post is about Final Fantasy and Red Mage. I mentioned XI specifically because it's the only other Final Fantasy MMO.

I can argue and say "UO and EvE weren't even remotely close to being the wild west of mmos, it goes to X and X." It's completely arbitrary.

[Tr0w]

Originally posted by Yenkei:

Originally posted by Tr0w:

XI wasn't even remotely close to being "the wild west of mmos", That goes to the likes of UO and EvE.

This post is about Final Fantasy and Red Mage. I mentioned XI specifically because it's the only other Final Fantasy MMO.

I can argue and say "UO and EvE weren't even remotely close to being the wild west of mmos, it goes to X and X." It's completely arbitrary.

You can't argue that though, you have to compare them with other mmos and other mmos are completely rigid in comparison, featuring class systems, regulated progression and economies, etc. You can't pickpocket another player's house key in FF, WoW, etc and rob items from their player house. Nor can you kill another player unless they are in a different faction. Every facet is regulated which is the complete opposite of what labelling something the wild west means.

And no you didn't say that this was in regards to FF only, you said and i quote again "the wild west of mmos" and mmos includes far more than just FF11 and 14.

[Yenkei]

Originally posted by Tr0w:

]You can't argue that though, you have to compare them with other mmos and other mmos are completely rigid in comparison, featuring class systems, regulated progression and economies, etc. You can't pickpocket another player's house key in FF, WoW, etc and rob items from their player house. Nor can you kill another player unless they are in a different faction. Every facet is regulated which is the complete opposite of what labelling something the wild west means.

And no you didn't say that this was in regards to FF only, you said and i quote again "the wild west of mmos" and mmos includes far more than just FF11 and 14.

I'm not comparing them, I'm saying this post is about Final Fantasy and Red Mages. Those games are not Final Fantasy or Red Mages. That's why XI was the only one I mentioned.

This has nothing to do with other MMO's I said "I can argue and say _" because it's a pointless argument to be having, and wasn't even the point of what I said.

If you want to get into technicalities of what "Wild west of MMO's" might mean I don't really care, it's completely arbitrary and is not relevant to the post.

[Valkurm Emperor]

Originally posted by Koishi Komeiji:

Originally posted by The Mayor of Murder Town:

Aero has been White magic more often in the series than Black, while Stone has never been affiliated with any particular alignment. That said, both are signature damage spells of WHM in this game, so maybe that's why.

You're also only six levels in to the job, way to early to complain about its kit. When you've unlocked the enhanced melee combos, VerHoly, and VerFlare, then we can talk.

That said, RDM swapping between melee and spellcasting while also serving as an emergency back-up healer is spot-on with how it was played in FF1.



Bio is a SMN spell, blind is nowhere to be seen, and Sleep is the most useless spell in the game.

Small correction here, Poison/Blind/Sleep used to be in the game. Still "technically" kind of are.

Poison isn't so much Bio as a dot for ACN/SMN, but it exists as its own thing, Poisoning Potion, Potent Poisoning Potion and etc. They were actually used in early ARR as it was an extra DPS to apply on mobs and fights. Blind used to exist in "Flash" but Gladiator/PLD no longer has that, Blinding Potions still exist I believe. Sleep/Repose still exist, but have very niche uses and point. In early days, Sleep/Repose were killer in PvP as before they neutered PvP, you had your entire toolkit PLUS pvp specific actions, sleeping a group and then using Cometeor was deadly. Outside of PvP, sleep is used rarely in Eureka, don't think it's even necessary (or usable?) in Bozja.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Ninja used to have 2 different kind of poisons to apply to their weapon, but they ended up getting removed.

Why would they remove these abilities from classes?

[Oberon]

Originally posted by Valkurm Emperor:

Originally posted by Koishi Komeiji:

Small correction here, Poison/Blind/Sleep used to be in the game. Still "technically" kind of are.

Poison isn't so much Bio as a dot for ACN/SMN, but it exists as its own thing, Poisoning Potion, Potent Poisoning Potion and etc. They were actually used in early ARR as it was an extra DPS to apply on mobs and fights. Blind used to exist in "Flash" but Gladiator/PLD no longer has that, Blinding Potions still exist I believe. Sleep/Repose still exist, but have very niche uses and point. In early days, Sleep/Repose were killer in PvP as before they neutered PvP, you had your entire toolkit PLUS pvp specific actions, sleeping a group and then using Cometeor was deadly. Outside of PvP, sleep is used rarely in Eureka, don't think it's even necessary (or usable?) in Bozja.

Edit: Forgot to mention, Ninja used to have 2 different kind of poisons to apply to their weapon, but they ended up getting removed.

Why would they remove these abilities from classes?

Skill bloat. Some of them served no functional purpose (Sleep spells are still among the most useless spells in the game) and others only made the jobs more complicated than they needed to be. So they consolidated what they could and cut what didn't need to be there.