Rogue leveling is horrible

[Vhayne]

So I got sick of WoW, and wanted to re-try FFXIV. I decided to level up a rogue since I want to try playing a ninja. Well, I'm level 21 so far, and I'm shocked at how "simple" the combat is.

Let me explain.

Engage mob with throw attack (hits for about 22)
Use Spinning Edge (hits for about 22)
Use Gut Slash (hits for about 40 when combo'd off of SE)

Repeat SE and GS over and over again (TWO BUTTONS) until mob is dead.

Oh, and I can use Assassinate every 40 seconds when the mob is less than 20%, and that "special" skill hits for a whopping 50 damage or so. Usually doesn't even kill the mob.


So, looking through the upcoming skills, it doesn't seem like anything is going to change, except when maybe in a group setting, and I can get behind the mob for a different skill.


The reason I'm here complaining about this, is that this game is revered. Tons of people seem to love it. I don't hate it at all, I'm just not sure how you can consider this gameplay "good". Am I missing something? It's boring as hell!

I keep reading, "It gets better at 50, 70, etc."

How in the heck did you even make it that far with combat like this?! It's like, "here man, bang your head into this wall for the next 30 hours...trust me though, it will begin to feel good around 20 hours in." Seriously?

[Tempus animae]

At Level... 30..? 35? You learn Jutsus and can make Hand signs... Depending on what sign, how many and in what order you get different skills from it... Ninja stuff^^

And Leveling is super fast in FF14... Your first Class/Job is the slowest, but it gets a lot faster.^^

I just started Rouge a week ago and Im a Lv. 53 Ninja atm... Its not my main class/Job. so im sure, you can Level even faster, If you want too^^

...I only use the throw attack if I have to back away from the target to dodge AOE's

Combos get longer and can have more "branches" if you level a bit...

[Vhayne]

Yeah, that sounds good. So level 30 or 35, basically once I become a ninja instead of rogue right?

I just can't wrap my head about why the company and players are okay with the early gameplay design like this. I mean, unless you are really determined, most people are going to quit before reaching 30+.

I can see this simplistic approach for levels 1-10 maybe. But even that might be pushing it. Telling someone that the game they are playing won't even be fun and engaging until they reach half the levelcap means there is something wrong. :(

[Tempus animae]

XD Yea FF14 keeps holding our hand for far too long and many changes SE did to it made it even easyer... You say its boring/easy, but you would be surprised how many player still struggle with it XD

I kinda miss some of the stuff that was removed... In earlyer versions you had to level several Classes/Jobs to learn importans skills or unlock Jobs... now...

Changeing the low Levels is probably to much work? So it gets better later on...
Then again, it was made so much simpler/easyer...

Don't be disapointed, when you turn into a ninja... You learn hand signs from Job Qusts...
The Level 35? Quest only teaches you how to summon and trow gigant Shuriken...

the real "Naruto-"Stuff comes a bit later XD

[Oberon]

You're making sure to update your gear, right? Specifically gear with high Dexterity.

[Vhayne]

I will try and stick with it. I'm determined to make it to max level with one class at least. I'm just perplexed why, considering how many love this game, it's a nightmare to level up. And I've played most, if not all of the mmos, many to "endgame".

[Vhayne]

Originally posted by The Mayor of Murder Town:

You're making sure to update your gear, right? Specifically gear with high Dexterity.

Oh yes. Always checking the market board for new stuff that I can use. I actually just finished the dungeon trainer thing to get my 30% exp ring, so I have that set of gear too.

It's not that the leveling is "slow" really. It's just that the combat is so simple that it feels extremely boring. I mean, I despise questing in WoW, and the combat there is also boring as hell to me. However, you do have many more skills to use and work with.

[Rion]

Rotations can become a nightmare on some classes at high levels. So it's true that pre-30/40/50 are somewhat simple. Even more, some classes have to completely re-learn rotations once they reach a certain levels. Sadly you just have to endure till then, so your statement is somewhat correct: leveling %classname% is horrible. But after that there is whole lot to learn about your class and how to be really effective with it.

P. S. I'd like to hear your opinion again after 50/60/70.

[Xastral]

Originally posted by Vhayne:

Yeah, that sounds good. So level 30 or 35, basically once I become a ninja instead of rogue right?

I just can't wrap my head about why the company and players are okay with the early gameplay design like this. I mean, unless you are really determined, most people are going to quit before reaching 30+.

I can see this simplistic approach for levels 1-10 maybe. But even that might be pushing it. Telling someone that the game they are playing won't even be fun and engaging until they reach half the levelcap means there is something wrong. :(

u have not play Black desert online :P its even longer before u start playing the Real class but like everyone said after ur first 60/70 ur alt gonna lvl so fast that u wont mind that mechanic

[Arndell]

Most agree here, but the "It gets better later" is not the usual time invested fallacy, it genuinely does.

The development style knows what the games strengths are and it's not afraid to let other aspects fail to ensure it's strengths are good.

They have to pick between end game balance and leveling quality, they picked end game class balance and simply balance leveling content to ensure it's possible but not required to be enjoyable (hitting 2 buttons on repeat is better than struggling through 20 mins of rotations just to find out it's impossible because the balance is off)

PvP is terrible, but they also completely separate the skills you learn and gear system from it, so once again it's "passable" but not fun, all the focus goes into PvE while PvP remains a static system with set gear and skills to use.


You came from WoW so you understand what happens when they try and make both leveling and end game work as one, on top of keeping PvP within the same system.
The entire world gets scaled to level, ruining a large sense of character progression and both PvP and PvE balance is screwed up to the extent both are frustrating.



TL:DR - FF14 plays to it's strengths while not being afraid to let it's weaknesses be weak, the leveling gameplay is weak but imo it's carried by the story, which while not that good, it really gains quality at 51+ and maintains it so far.

[echelon]

Originally posted by Vhayne:

So, looking through the upcoming skills, it doesn't seem like anything is going to change, except when maybe in a group setting, and I can get behind the mob for a different skill.

As everyone has said, once you hit 30 and get your job it will start to pick up.

Here is the Ninja Actions page:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1665219595

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1665219659

[Lightning Lunatic]

Speaking as someone who's leveled all the combat jobs to 70... it DOES get better as you get further in. You can unlock Ninja at 30 after finishing your class story quests, as said above. Ninja actually has one of the more complex rotations for melee DPS, with weaving in your signs and whatnot. It REALLY starts coming online once you hit 45 and learn your last Mudra, giving you access to Huton (increasing your attack speed and lowering your GCD) and Suiton (which makes Trick Attack usable in combat!!). And you just keep getting more utility and offense from there.

This is really the case with just about all the jobs. The leveling is a bit of a chore, but the end-game is pretty all right. Story starts out not so bad, but takes off in Heavensward and keeps going strong. Patience and persistence is the order of the day.

Small tip to save you a bit of gil: as you go through the main story, don't buy gear upgrades for your main job. The various quests and sidequests actually do a pretty good job of giving you gear upgrades as you go, especially once you hit Heavensward content.

[Arndell]

Originally posted by Lightning Lunatic:

Small tip to save you a bit of gil: as you go through the main story, don't buy gear upgrades for your main job. The various quests and sidequests actually do a pretty good job of giving you gear upgrades as you go, especially once you hit Heavensward content.

To add to that tip, you are probably aware of those "Tomestones of Poetics" you have been getting.

Those are extremely plentiful and you will reach the 2000 cap on them many times, do not be afraid to spend them in the "Mor Dhona" zone at Revenant's Toll.

From those vendors you can buy a full set of end game level 50 gear, that will easily see you to level 60 without needing to replace it, then once you are at 60, poetics can once again be used to buy a full set of level 60 gear that will easily see you to 70, as the main quest line will then drip feed you upgrades as you progress.

[i++]

How do i unlock the ninja?

[Tempus animae]

Originally posted by xxxTenTaChael:

How do i unlock the ninja?

Join the Rouge guild and Level up to Lv. 30. Do all the Guild Quests(Every 5 Level).

After that the Guild will have a Quest that will lead to a new Quest NPC. Do the Quest from that NPC and you get a Job Cristal. Equip that to your Rouge and done.

[paxtheconfused]

The reason its feels a bit hollow is because of that new role action system that replaced cross class skills. you used to be able to take skills from other classes and that expanded the early rotations and plugged up a few weak points in some of the early game. Also, the rogue was one of the first classes added in, so the early lack of direct skills of the rogue tree was hidden because of the utility of its skills being supported by cross class offensive skills. I also think that after a few major rebalances, the early power level is a bit too even among the low leveled classes. Tanks and healers can even put out more dps early on becuase of instant dots or aoe attacks, or at least thats what it feels like.