Shadowbringers tank and healer changes upset me

[mirta000]

https://youtu.be/-8u5Cs618Vs

Same post but in text:

"Tanks lose their DPS stance and their tank stance now has no drawback to staying in it. All skills do the same amount of emnity, so the rotation that you do no longer matters. Astrologian loses card RNG to a point that all cards grant some sort damage increase. White Mage loses protect, gains extra insta-heals. Scholar fairy is simplified. Mana is now capped at 10 000, healer damage dealing is discouraged.

Some players are happy about this, but for me, for me RPGs are about build diversity and getting good at your class, among other things. Build diversity was very scarse as it was and rotations on all support classes have now been significantly simplified. Meaning learning a class is easy. And if one of the things that was holding you in this game was getting satisfaction out of your mastered rotation, that perfect health juggle on a tank, going to DPS stance at just the right time... Then what now?

This also makes supports very much a one trick pony. Tanks got reduced to DPS with aggro stance, healers now just heal. As a person that always played just support, I am now a bit at a loss of what I want to do. I could go with White Mage. I mean they're getting minimal changes as a class. However White Mage was always very simple to play and there are rumours on requiring to overheal to use your bigger damage abilities, meaning either way, I will either be standing there doing nothing, or spamming heals on already healthy people.

Due to slow moving MMO market, it also means that I can't just turn around and go to a competitor. There aren't many competitors out there. And while, frankly, I hoped that Shadowbringers will be insanely good because I wanted to have an MMO for the next two years to play, Square Enix doesn't really need me. In the grand scheme of things, I could move on to a random ability World of Warcraft server, as while it suffers under great RNG, it offers build diversity, literally no-one would care. So before you get upset over this video, know that I'm sharing my opinion just to make myself feel somewhat better and get it off my chest. And now that I've done that, this is it. I am greatly dissappointed with Shadowbringer support changes and that's that."

I am just... Really saddened by it.

[galacticcorgi]

Oh no, how dare they simplify it and do away with overcomplicated bullcrap because your e-peen might weep.

But for real, it's an MMO. Build diversity never works. Even in WoW, you only have, like, one VIABLE build. Otherwise you're just not optimal. I mean, you could play an Ice Mage in FFXIV right now. That's a "build." But it's not viable.

[mirta000]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

Oh no, how dare they simplify it and do away with overcomplicated bullcrap because your e-peen might weep.

But for real, it's an MMO. Build diversity never works. Even in WoW, you only have, like, one VIABLE build. Otherwise you're just not optimal. I mean, you could play an Ice Mage in FFXIV right now. That's a "build." But it's not viable.

Like I said, I'm currently on a random ability WoW server and honestly everyone kind of enjoys the creativity. "Use spells to provoke that have a high threat generation? Go for it. Wearing heavy armour on a healer because it had the right enchant? Go for it.". It is the most cooperative fun MMO experience that I had had in a while.

I don't miss waiting 30 minutes on a mob respawn, nor the 40 man raid organization, but I honestly think that some points of old MMOs and creative private servers could be reincorporated back into the industry. FFXIV for the most part was most fun in HW. And most classes had several builds. People used VIT melds to bypass iLvl need in Savage content. Tanks experimented with dropping their health in favour of DPS by wearing DPS accessories. And it was fun.

[galacticcorgi]

mirta000 lähetti viestin:

Anakha lähetti viestin:

Oh no, how dare they simplify it and do away with overcomplicated bullcrap because your e-peen might weep.

But for real, it's an MMO. Build diversity never works. Even in WoW, you only have, like, one VIABLE build. Otherwise you're just not optimal. I mean, you could play an Ice Mage in FFXIV right now. That's a "build." But it's not viable.

Like I said, I'm currently on a random ability WoW server and honestly everyone kind of enjoys the creativity. "Use spells to provoke that have a high threat generation? Go for it. Wearing heavy armour on a healer because it had the right enchant? Go for it.". It is the most cooperative fun MMO experience that I had had in a while.

I don't miss waiting 30 minutes on a mob respawn, nor the 40 man raid organization, but I honestly think that some points of old MMOs and creative private servers could be reincorporated back into the industry. FFXIV for the most part was most fun in HW. And most classes had several builds. People used VIT melds to bypass iLvl need in Savage content. Tanks experimented with dropping their health in favour of DPS by wearing DPS accessories. And it was fun.

They didn't have "several builds." they had "most optimal build and then people not wanting to adapt and change for the new optimal build." Because a lot of tanks want to be DPS without the queues. Straight up.

[galacticcorgi]

Sorry, Steam errored on me and wasn't posting, and then posted four times. ._.

[mirta000]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

They didn't have "several builds." they had "most optimal build and then people not wanting to adapt and change for the new optimal build." Because a lot of tanks want to be DPS without the queues. Straight up.

Skill speed and crit builds were both viable for a lot of classes. Building a support was a bit more intricate and depended on how well your your group sinergised. Talking about that, hey another thing that's kind of gone! Synergy! Because why bother with co-operation in a multiplayer game :D

[galacticcorgi]

mirta000 lähetti viestin:

Anakha lähetti viestin:

They didn't have "several builds." they had "most optimal build and then people not wanting to adapt and change for the new optimal build." Because a lot of tanks want to be DPS without the queues. Straight up.

Skill speed and crit builds were both viable for a lot of classes. Building a support was a bit more intricate and depended on how well your your group sinergised. Talking about that, hey another thing that's kind of gone! Synergy! Because why bother with co-operation in a multiplayer game :D

"Synergy is gone" aka "now there's literally no reason to shut out specific classes because you want to be The Most Optimal All The Time" aka "the SAM problem"

[mirta000]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

"Synergy is gone" aka "now there's literally no reason to shut out specific classes because you want to be The Most Optimal All The Time" aka "the SAM problem"

Now it's instead "let's pick 4 biggest numbers out of each sub-group of classes" with maybe the exception of Dancer that will push out both MCH and BRD as support DPS because they're getting actually useful buffs.
You no longer need to think about structure, it's just literally "muh big DPS" now.

[galacticcorgi]

mirta000 lähetti viestin:

Anakha lähetti viestin:

"Synergy is gone" aka "now there's literally no reason to shut out specific classes because you want to be The Most Optimal All The Time" aka "the SAM problem"

Now it's instead "let's pick 4 biggest numbers out of each sub-group of classes" with maybe the exception of Dancer that will push out both MCH and BRD as support DPS because they're getting actually useful buffs.
You no longer need to think about structure, it's just literally "muh big DPS" now.

That's all it was before, dude. Have you ever actually looked at how actual hardcore players played? There was one optimal thing.

Also, no, BRD is still going to be king because DNC is single-target buffs only. This is ALREADY being discussed on the Reddit by hardcore raiders.

[mirta000]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

That's all it was before, dude. Have you ever actually looked at how actual hardcore players played? There was one optimal thing.

Also, no, BRD is still going to be king because DNC is single-target buffs only. This is ALREADY being discussed on the Reddit by hardcore raiders.

Ever looked at Savage first clears in HW? They all had different strategies and most had different compos, because you actually needed to use your head.

And king of what? They're losing all their debuffing, synergize with nobody anymore and no longer have a lot of their rota. Why wouldn't you instead take the support that brings some sort of DPS increase? Same with AST, now that every card gives a damage up, why would you ever take a WHM over them?

[galacticcorgi]

mirta000 lähetti viestin:

Anakha lähetti viestin:

That's all it was before, dude. Have you ever actually looked at how actual hardcore players played? There was one optimal thing.

Also, no, BRD is still going to be king because DNC is single-target buffs only. This is ALREADY being discussed on the Reddit by hardcore raiders.

Ever looked at Savage first clears in HW? They all had different strategies and most had different compos, because you actually needed to use your head.

And king of what? They're losing all their debuffing, synergize with nobody anymore and no longer have a lot of their rota. Why wouldn't you instead take the support that brings some sort of DPS increase? Same with AST, now that every card gives a damage up, why would you ever take a WHM over them?

You realize the argue you're making now was the same made for SCH before, right? "Why take anyone not SCH because they can spend more time doing DPS?" Or WAR?

[Bongo Bongo]

Insert condencending post here cause most "much simplifed machanics."

Anakha the way you debate makes me want to fell cleave you irl.

[galacticcorgi]

Cezar Grey lähetti viestin:

Insert condencending post here cause most "much simplifed machanics."

Anakha the way you debate makes me want to fell cleave you irl.

How about actually paying attention to the way the game's actually played before whinging.

[Bongo Bongo]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

Cezar Grey lähetti viestin:

Insert condencending post here cause most "much simplifed machanics."

Anakha the way you debate makes me want to fell cleave you irl.

How about actually paying attention to the way the game's actually played before whinging.

How about you pay attention to my hours played and then try again.

Surely with over 2k hours logged I wouldn't know how the game is played. Like, are you daft or has anime over dose caused a lapse in better judgement? Most likely the latter.

[mirta000]

Anakha lähetti viestin:

How about actually paying attention to the way the game's actually played before whinging.

I suppose I missed it how the game was played in 4.8K hours logged :/

[Bongo Bongo]

mirta000 lähetti viestin:

Anakha lähetti viestin:

How about actually paying attention to the way the game's actually played before whinging.

I suppose I missed it how the game was played in 4.8K hours logged :/

Oh yeah dude. Almost 5k hours played. You obviously have no idea what theyre talking about -nudge nudge- lol