Some of these jobs are depressing.

[RiisWolf]

It honestly makes me believe the devs legitimately have no idea what it is they're doing with these jobs. Some of the players they pander to are definitely not helping, in created quite a number of problems. I hate saying this but clearly some players hate change, no matter what it is nor if it is for the better. Fracture's gone? Job's ruined. Power Slash is gone? DRK is ruined. BRD is using the harp more often? I ain't going to go over an example surround BRD cause I ain't singing that song. It's all one big mess. And I fear that the devs will screw something up further or cave to the players demanding stupid things that'll only make things worse. Like homogenizing all tanks because one tank can do a thing the other can't. So here are some of the jobs:

WAR: Yes them. Heavensward was the best. But clearly the devs don't want it to be so simple. So Stormblood onward, they did something that kneecapped the flow and functionality of the warrior. Adding an HP based attack has always been stupid on a tank unless they are meant to be THE off tank. WAR is clearly meant to be THE main tank. Wrath generation is slow, but that was OK when the we had 1 wrath attack to use (I know we got 2, but you pick one or the other), now we have 3. Onslaught could be more than what it is, like it could hit multiple targets or generate wrath. They took out some of the life stealing AGAIN. And stripped off the infuriate upgrade and made it a Shadowbringer trait instead of the multiple charges even though 1 minute is too long to justify the 2 charges. Now they created this late bloomer problem that shouldn't exist like this in the first place. And even with the perpetual 10% buff the potencies are on the low side. Was it to make GNB look better? What is the big idea here!?

BRD: They should have never made the archer a bard but it is what it is, so let's build on that. Only that ever since Heavenswards they've been straying away from being a bard and more of a ranger. I know I'm gonna get flak for this but I think they should have kept the cast times on BRD. You drew the arrow. You played a harp. Your music hurts your enemies as much as it helps your allies. But NO. You are the hyper mobile arrow shooty job because the players complained too much, instead of making an actual ranger job. They could have simply allowed you to move while casting and fixed 90% of the complaint right there. Or they could have simply stop homogenizing the ranged damage dealer so excessively. But no, let's just make this Pretend Ranger the Job. Do they even play the harp anymore?

SCH: Just because AST exists does not mean you nerf the buffs to make them look good. They are obviously the auto-healer, but building on that took far too long to get around to that. Removing the aethercharge upgrade makes no sense and ruin 2 should have been axed. It's literally the SCH's "scathe" now. I love the new embrace but why is it 150 potency? The fairy isn't affected by your traits so not only does it have less potency than WHM's regen, it is far weaker than it, maybe weaker than medica2's regen. It should have stayed at 300. It's bad enough she targets the most injured player first.

AST: It was never good. I never a healer job done so incompetently in an MMO. Weak potencies. Basic abilities. And SOMEHOW the randomly weak, short, OR NOW weak short buffs is supposed to make up for that??? And you are meant to be the replacement healer!? This job is over balanced. No it is not because it has a Cure1, Cure2, esuna, AoE, special AoE, like everyone else. WoW did this too with standand,quick,heavy heals and they got their healer identities right. AST exemplifies why it doesn't like healers have uniqueness from each other because that's all of what AST is outside of the cards. They could have some kind of star link heal that chains across players, but that's too much for simple SE and simple players. It needed the MCH treatment from day 1. As long as it remains in the form that it is now, it will always need fixing.

SMN: It works. It would have been golden if it wasn't nerfed. It seems it's a bad case of having all the angles covered because it's clear that the effectiveness of the changes are hurt significantly by being able to put out less hits. The Bahamutt's shockwaves hit less times, but its potency was never buffed. If the potencies were buffed then it'll all be better. Now I know it's not new that the changes to these jobs make them so incomplete they are now incapable of beating the latest SSS dummies they could beat before the expansion changed it. But this is a problem for ultimate and will probably is the root of their problems at level 80.

GNB: Purely aesthetics. Their swords are generally on the short side. Shorter than the average paladin sword. This makes their stance look dumb, lame and overly edgy. Some may come here and say "WELL IT'S MORE REALISTIC" or "WE DON'T WANT GIANT SWORDS". First, no it's not. The way they handle the weapon makes it look like they are NOT using short swords. You don't rest short swords on your shoulder and most wouldn't handle a short sword with two hands (burst strike). The GLD/PLD acts like they're holding short swords. Nobody here wants giant gunblades. But it says a lot when they're obnoxiously consistent with how long the katanas are (even the rapiers and greatswords), yet when the gunblades it seems like someone didn't have enough time to scale them properly. The handling and posturing suggest they should rival the katanas in size. It's very distracting. Also the sounds they make with most attacks don't have much OOMPH or BAM to it unlike Solid Barrel. . .. .Also also the victory stance is dumb.. . .. Also also also, why is the hand on the middle of the hand instead of the top half, closer to the trigger!? It really looks like the weapons weren't scaled properly. Seriously why are they mostly short???

"What's the point in all this?" You might ask. Well, does any of this bother you? Does the direction or lack there make you concerned about anything? Or even their tendencies?
Or am I going to have a response as if I killed a dog like a JoJo villian?

If anyone was to ask, what job would never make this list, then it would be the White Mage. Even if it got set aside in the meta it'd never be because it was bad, it'd be just because of some random reason that does not result in higher raid damage numbers. We all know the only thing the raiding meta cares about is the numbers. It was always good. Even when the lilies were nothing more than a mostly useless addition in Stormblood. They always have one of the best AoEs in the game.That's Final Fantasy's White mage for ya. So simple and powerful.

[P00CH]

I'm sorry for your opinion.

[Aishikai]

Imagine typing all of this just to inform others of how bad your opinions are

[VanGoghComplex]

I'm a little bummed about the simplifying they did to DRK, but now that I'm getting used to the new flow, it's still a fun class to play.

Maybe you should play some more, OP.

[Mandodo]

Lost me on cast time on bards

that ♥♥♥♥ broke the damn job

[Omega24]

actually what i think is funny is that posts like this sprout up with the OP spouting gibberish.

[RiisWolf]

Opprinnelig skrevet av VanGoghComplex:

I'm a little bummed about the simplifying they did to DRK, but now that I'm getting used to the new flow, it's still a fun class to play.

Maybe you should play some more, OP.

It's been 3 weeks. We don't need a whole expansion to get used to it, and getting used to it doesn't mean liking it. Heck, just look at how marvelous MCH was. People TOTALLY loved that both times. I sure didn't. Or AST 3.0. I got used to it. Nobody liked it. it gets buff continuously and now we're back to square 1.
I do love the new DRK tho.

Opprinnelig skrevet av rocketskates69:

Lost me on cast time on bards

that ♥♥♥♥ broke the damn job

No. . . That would be MCH, who should have never been designed around that in the first place. It's a freaking gun. What do you need time for!? To think about shooting them with your weak gun-fu??? MCH should have been more mobile than BRD.
Now that might sound weird to you. "Then why do you like cast time on bard?" You might ask. Simple. You are DRAWING the bow. Your not Sonic "Lagolas" the Hedgehog. You're an archer with a harp. They could have gone somewhere with that but nope, Sonic "Lagolas" the Hedgehog is it. And already I see bards complaining about how bard is straying further away from being a bard and that dancer has better supportive abilities. Which would almost be surprising if they weren't blindly begging for it to start with. We wanna be DPS, y'all demanded. No some twinkly support twerp with a harp who has a bow, y'all said. But don't do anything to our Foe Requium or we're out of the job, y'all cried AFTER its removal was announced. And if you find this to be so unfathomable that it can't be real, then I don't know what to say to you, if there is anything to say.

[Mandodo]

Opprinnelig skrevet av RiisWolf:

Opprinnelig skrevet av VanGoghComplex:

I'm a little bummed about the simplifying they did to DRK, but now that I'm getting used to the new flow, it's still a fun class to play.

Maybe you should play some more, OP.

It's been 3 weeks. We don't need a whole expansion to get used to it, and getting used to it doesn't mean liking it. Heck, just look at how marvelous MCH was. People TOTALLY loved that both times. I sure didn't. Or AST 3.0. I got used to it. Nobody liked it. it gets buff continuously and now we're back to square 1.
I do love the new DRK tho.

Opprinnelig skrevet av rocketskates69:

Lost me on cast time on bards

that ♥♥♥♥ broke the damn job

No. . . That would be MCH, who should have never been designed around that in the first place. It's a freaking gun. What do you need time for!? To think about shooting them with your weak gun-fu??? MCH should have been more mobile than BRD.
Now that might sound weird to you. "Then why do you like cast time on bard?" You might ask. Simple. You are DRAWING the bow. Your not Sonic "Lagolas" the Hedgehog. You're an archer with a harp. They could have gone somewhere with that but nope, Sonic "Lagolas" the Hedgehog is it. And already I see bards complaining about how bard is straying further away from being a bard and that dancer has better supportive abilities. Which would almost be surprising if they weren't blindly begging for it to start with. We wanna be DPS, y'all demanded. No some twinkly support twerp with a harp who has a bow, y'all said. But don't do anything to our Foe Requium or we're out of the job, y'all cried AFTER its removal was announced. And if you find this to be so unfathomable that it can't be real, then I don't know what to say to you, if there is anything to say.

Speed shots yo. Look it up on youtube, it's a legit thing that humans now can do lol. I don't want to cast a bow and neither did the community, thats why it was changed LOL

I'm very happy with BRD and the way it is now and with MCH as well. Maybe your not good at the jobs?......?

[Ralf]

Opprinnelig skrevet av RiisWolf:

Fracture's gone? Job's ruined.

Eli5 why?

[RiisWolf]

Opprinnelig skrevet av rocketskates69:

Speed shots yo. Look it up on youtube, it's a legit thing that humans now can do lol. I don't want to cast a bow and neither did the community, thats why it was changed LOL

I'm very happy with BRD and the way it is now and with MCH as well. Maybe your not good at the jobs?......?

1) You do realize that by your logic that means you didn't like the 1.5 cast time was because you sucked with it. That you found one of the easiest jobs in the game too much to work with. Now that can't be true now wouldn't it? Cause you wanted the cast time gone so that you could move. We all know the answer to that. So please, don't come to me with this baby garbage.

2) Nobody here said it had to be slow. In fact the changes they've brought after Stormblood is making you shoot less. In Heavensward, you had 5 oGCD arrow attacks (that don't have a cast time), and bloodletter could reset at all times. Empyreal Arrow was a weaponskill so it could be affected by haste and speed. In Stormblood, 4 oGCDs arrow attacks, 2 removed, 1 must be charged during Wanderers and bloodletter could resets only during mage's ballad. Army only gives haste. Now in Shadowbringer 4 oGCDs, the songs no longer proc at 50% of critical DoT ticks but instead go on a flat 20% rate of any DoT tick which mellows and lessens proc, Empyreal is now an ability so you can't use it more often thanks to haste anymore, everything else is the same as stormblood which means. Yes you are shooting less and shooting slower than you ever were in Heavensward, unless you just sucked.

3) I even said they could have easily allowed movement during the cast time. You know, a simple fix to the root of everyone's strife with the cast times. It was always the movement you wanted, NOT being able to shoot fast, and especially not back then because you'd be crying to me about how much TP that'll eat up.

[RiisWolf]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Ralf:

Opprinnelig skrevet av RiisWolf:

Fracture's gone? Job's ruined.

Eli5 why?

Some, albeit very few, Monks and Warriors actually think the "depth" this weak and useless DoT added made the job(s). Y'know, more buttons to press. Just like DRK's Scourge. All of this instead of questioning why couldn't those DoTs be made better. It didn't matter if they were useless or so middling it was a detriment half the time. I hear the DRK's are wanting it back for some reason.
Could it be because Sonic Break exists? A DoT like Fracture and Scourge done RIGHT?

[Remedy]

Opprinnelig skrevet av RiisWolf:

Interesting insight.

Which jobs would you recommend me to try, as a newcomer, to either be most fun or most efficient? RDPS, Healer, Tank?
Currently playing as lvl 74 ninja.

[Battlefoxx]

You've put a lot of time into this, I can see that. Take my spin on this though.

WAR: Hard to say if it were designed with being "THE Main Tank" in mind. For me, it felt more like it was designed with DAMAGE in mind, and barely any utility to compensate. ShB changed this so that their offense helps the MT (by giving them any Lifesteal you get for 6 seconds, admittably not much) and that they can survive a lot of things thrown at them instead if needed. Raw Intuition gives them much more sustain than you'd think now - Lifesteal would be simply overkill. It was, however, the defining trait of the WAR - stay alive in the fight by facing the danger head-on. This is missing now - unless you count 6 seconds of "I has lifesteal nao". I don't, neither do you. They still feel powerful though.
And eh, even if Upheaval scales on their current HP, I still like to d!ck-punch monsters whenever I get the chance for it. More punches > waiting to line up the perfect Falcon Punch.

BRD: Yeah they kinda don't use music a lot... while they rotate songs every 30s, all this does is change the way they output DPS, not much else. Troubadour in SB made them more unique (if also a bit of a hassle at times...), and MP / TP songs are no longer a thing for them. This is a ranged DPS's job in general now.
I personally think that having a cooldown that makes BRD become a "turret" for either 1 shot or a shorter duration wouldn't exactly hurt them... no need to make it a permanent thing (yes you do have to nock an arrow, pull the string etc...but many MMOs disregard this), as people may as well play magical DPS then. They fill that quota.
BRD feels more like an Archer than a bard right now, though they still do support the team with - gasp! - songs, aside from the main 3. Minne, the Cleanse Song - things like that. It's there, but not as dominant. Or can you imagine a character attacking by singing only? (Actually...)

SCH: The fact SCH has to actually do something now is a welcome change. This even makes Dissipate a very viable cooldown, as the faerie heals about 15-20% of what you do. Disspate grants 20% healing potency. Yes, you do not get the auto-heal... nothing that Whispering cannot fix for those 30s, plus you yourself get to target the healing. As you said, the faerie targets the most injured. You yourself heal whoever you want, and even get 3 Aetherflow for that.
SCH has to actually do their healing now and got LOTS of tools for that. The removal of Bane for them further nudges them towards that direction; you only get to damage things if you do not need to heal anymore. Beforehand, you may as well claim you're a DPS with a running HoT - that is not something a healer should be saying.
I will however stress that Art of War is the worst Healer AoE out of the three. 150 Potency won't save the fact it's close-range, meaning you can potentially get smacked by an AoE.

AST: Not playing them myself, but I saw a handful of them pull their weight. Cannot say more than that.

SMN: Playing them a lot right now, and personally I believe they are not weak. At all. Their power got more shifted towards utility (Phoenix) but saying that their damage is nerfed is incorrect. Their *burst* got nerfed (Bahamut Wyrmwave). Their DPS is certainly higher thanks to Firebird Trance, making every second Trance considerably more powerful (at 80, this seems to be a mini-Bahamut - so that's where part of the lowered DPS from Bahamut went in).

GNB: Yeah, those SFX need a bit more power behind them. Swords itself seem fine, though if we compare them to what Squall in FF8 is using, they do seem short.
/vpose RIP. Q_Q


That aside, I see many people complain about DRK. The first 15-20s or so are still very PTSD-inducing due to having to press nearly all of your buttons, including Edge of Darkness. It's like the former DA - just instead of giving the next attack extra potency, it just fires out that potency instantly. It's not "an empty cooldown". Edge instantly does something.

Also, am I the only one who feels like WHM's Lv 80 ability is extremely underwhelming in terms of gameplay? It's literally "Let's take Largesse from SB and make it a Lv 80 CD with an extra 10% Damage reduction, no one will notice". The pretty wings won't change that. *ready to duck away from WHM mains*

[Mandodo]

Opprinnelig skrevet av RiisWolf:

Opprinnelig skrevet av rocketskates69:

Speed shots yo. Look it up on youtube, it's a legit thing that humans now can do lol. I don't want to cast a bow and neither did the community, thats why it was changed LOL

I'm very happy with BRD and the way it is now and with MCH as well. Maybe your not good at the jobs?......?

1) You do realize that by your logic that means you didn't like the 1.5 cast time was because you sucked with it. That you found one of the easiest jobs in the game too much to work with. Now that can't be true now wouldn't it? Cause you wanted the cast time gone so that you could move. We all know the answer to that. So please, don't come to me with this baby garbage.

2) Nobody here said it had to be slow. In fact the changes they've brought after Stormblood is making you shoot less. In Heavensward, you had 5 oGCD arrow attacks (that don't have a cast time), and bloodletter could reset at all times. Empyreal Arrow was a weaponskill so it could be affected by haste and speed. In Stormblood, 4 oGCDs arrow attacks, 2 removed, 1 must be charged during Wanderers and bloodletter could resets only during mage's ballad. Army only gives haste. Now in Shadowbringer 4 oGCDs, the songs no longer proc at 50% of critical DoT ticks but instead go on a flat 20% rate of any DoT tick which mellows and lessens proc, Empyreal is now an ability so you can't use it more often thanks to haste anymore, everything else is the same as stormblood which means. Yes you are shooting less and shooting slower than you ever were in Heavensward, unless you just sucked.

3) I even said they could have easily allowed movement during the cast time. You know, a simple fix to the root of everyone's strife with the cast times. It was always the movement you wanted, NOT being able to shoot fast, and especially not back then because you'd be crying to me about how much TP that'll eat up.

Yeah you suck at the job.

Nobody ever wanted bards to cast.

That's why it was changed.

Nobody wanted it.

Get over it, it's never going back.

Beating a dead horse now.

Move along, SE won't cater to the 1%

[Xilva]

I respect your opinion but I'll have to disagree with everything you pointed out. I won't bother to explain since I know you're already dead set on what you think about these jobs.

[Ruse]

That's your opinion, but everything about it is wrong.