Dark Knight in Shadowbringers.

[Drakon]

As it has been a little over 2 months since the release of Shadowbringers, how do you all feel about DRK? Do you prefer the rework or do you prefer it's previous iterations and why do you prefer that version?

I for one do not like the rework they had done to the class in ShB. This is why:

TLDR at the bottom, if you don't wanna read it all.

WARNING THIS IS A SOMEWHAT LONG READ

DRK first and foremost suffered a huge decrease in CPM (from around 45-47 CPM to 36-37 CPM), this makes the class very slow overall. This huge change in CPM is caused due to the removal/rework of a lot of DRK abilities and utilities.

Blood Weapon: Reduces weaponskill cast time and recast time, spell cast time and recast time, and auto-attack delay by 10% and converts physical damage dealt into MP. Recast was 40s and lasted 15s before. Now it is 60s recast and lasts 10s (9.8s), the buff mentioned in the start is removed.

Losing one of our main self sustain abilities, Sole Survivor. This ability marked a target with a status known as "Another Victim," this means that if the target is killed before this effect expires(15s), you get back 30% of your max HP and MP, if you fail to kill it before then, you would get 20% of both. Recast was 120s.

Blood Price: Restored MP everytime you got hit by a mob, the effect lasted 15s and recast was 40s, now imagine using this skill on a wall to wall pull followed by a Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain spam to continuously steal HP from all the mobs. Noe removed, this was also a very amazing tool for MP management.

Quietus: The change they did to Quietus was a huge hit to our AoE MP generation, Pre-ShB, Quietus restored 480 MP per mob hit. Very powerful ability due to it's MP generation capability in Dungeons. Changing it's potency from 160(210 if DA enhanced before) to 210 does not make up for that. In ShB, it is a Decimate clone as the only difference is that Decimate is 40 potency higher, in SB, what made this ability unique was how much MP it could generate and how it could be enhanced. Now it generates 500 MP only, no matter how many mobs are there.

Bloodspiller: It was a great ability to use because it was your big hitter, the animation for it and the sound it makes as the sword hits the ground. It was amazing and could be enhanced with Dark Arts for a total of 540 potency, 650 Potency if used in Dark Arts + Grit, or no buff for 400 potency or just Grit alone for 475 potency. The issue this move had previously was that using it with Grit and Dark Arts meant no Darkside, which was a 20% loss in potency, which meant you did not do 650 potency but around 520 instead. They could have easily fixed this by adjusting potencies, but instead now it is just another Fell Cleave. Also, BS is not animated to be a move which you spam 5 times, Fell Cleave has a clean and smooth animation and you can feel the weight behind the axe. Seeing a DRK to 5 somersaults in a row is weird.

So many jobs are heading towards this Gauge and Burst window style, PLD with Requiescat window, WAR with IR window, MCH as well and now DRK. Out of the 4 tanks, 3 now share a very similar burst window. PLD and MCH obviously have it's own twist. DRK has a watered down IR. Who is to tell if they add something like this soon to their NIN rework, they already slapped a gauge onto NIN for whatever reason.

Abyssal Drain: Previously was on a recast of 2.50s, a simple move at first which does increased enmity generation. It did 120 potency damage to all mobs in a radius of 5y. If this ability was paired with Dark Arts, it would also absorb a portion of the damage dealt as HP. I will talk about this ability a bit later about how well it synergized with a few other abilities.

Darkside: Used to be a toggle ability which provided a 20% damage increase at the cost of stopping MP regeneration. It was an important move which allowed you access to THE iconic DRK ability and a few more.

Salted Earth: It created a patch on the ground of 5y in radius. It was on a recast of 45s and did 75 potency of damage to all mobs within the radius, lasted for 21s. This is now on a recast time of 90s, lasts 15s and does 60 potency of damage to mobs within the circle. A huge nerf.

Carve and Spit: It used to be a 100 potency oGCD which provided you with 2 options, Attune to Dark Arts and use the move to increase it's potency to 450 or use it without Dark Arts and hit for 100 potency, but gain MP to make up for that potency loss. This allowed you to use CnS the way you needed it at the moment. Not a just push when it is off CD.

The Blackest Night: Previously it would give you a 20% total HP shield or 10% if used on a party member, if the whole shield is absorbed, you get 50 Blood. This is important for my later topic. Costs 2400 MP before. This is not a DPS neutral ability as it is now.

TBN right now is a 25% total HP shield regardless of whether it is used on you or your party. If
the shield is absorbed, it provides you with a free use of Edge/Flood of Shadow. Costs 3000 MP. Recast is still 15s.

A huge gripe I have with the move is how the meaning of this ability is ruined, TBN is class quest wise, a shield which converts pain into blood. How does getting a free Eos/Fos equal to getting blood? This ♥♥♥♥♥ on one the best class quests the DRK storyline has had.

Delirium: This ability used to extend the duration of Blood Weapon and Blood Price by 8s and 16s respectively and gave some MP. Blood Gauge cost was 50. Using this ability meant you got 8s more where your character is 10% faster and 16s more of gaining MP everytime a mob hit you. Very powerful cooldown which was worth it's cost. Recast was 80s.

Sad that they would butcher that move like this. Delirium in ShB is yet another CD where your gauge ability becomes free for 10s, essentially just requires you to spam x5 of an ability just like a certain other tank (PLD at the very least has to press a different move as a finisher for it's spam). I don't know if it is because SE want to homogenize everything, they ran out of ideas or they just cannot come up with something which is actually good, what was wrong with old Delirium? Recast is now 90s.

Dark Mind: Needs to be reverted back to 30% magic damage reduction, especially when the others have abilities to block all types of damage by 20%, why does DRK only block magic for 20% as physical moves would still do the same amount with or without DM. 30% reduction was fair as it was magic only.

[Drakon]

Dark Arts:

Finally, we come to the biggest change they have done to the class which I hate with a passion. Removal of Dark Arts. An ability which provided a 140 potency increase for certain abilities and an added effect to the ability such as Blind for Dark Passenger, Lifesteal on Abyssal Drain. This was THE iconic DRK ability.

Now I get that many players hated the Dark Arts spam in SB, but this was what defined what a DRK was and fit extremely well with it's job identity. The biggest issue with Dark Arts in SB was the spam, not Dark Arts itself . The ability had potential to be better if SE took the time to make the enhancements worth it or provide an additional effect for certain moves, or heck allow the use of a combo which can only be accessed when you are attuned to Dark Arts. This can give you the choice on what you want to use when you are attuned with DA, use an enhanced potency ability, additional effect or choose to use a combo which can only be used in DA. They could have just increased it's recast time to 10s or 15s, now that fixes the DA spam people complained about. If DA was on a 15s recast, you would use it on an average of 4 times a minute, just the same amount EoS is used now.

They could have made it so Dark Arts could be used to enhance your defensive abilities as well. Example: DA + TBN creates a shield which absorbs damage done and restores it as HP, or if shield is broken, it explodes causing X potency of damage to all mobs nearby. Just an example that's all. Dark Arts had potential to be better.

Instead, it is now a buff you get when TBN breaks which just gives you a free EoS/FoS. Is this what happens when you attune to the Darkness within you?

It's funny how they replaced the Dark Arts spam with another spam.

Plunge: This extends to PLD and GNB as well. Giving their closers 2 charges just means that in the end it is an ability which does damage and happens to be a gap closer. Suprisingly, the best gap closer is WAR because it costs Gauge, which means if used on CD, it is a DPS loss and therefore is only used in very rare occasions outside of IR. Gap Closers should be unusable if we are within 5y of the target. Let them serve their actual purpose.

Another issue DRK has is that most of their oGCDs are at 60s, as such there are many gaps where there is no ability to press except for your 1 2 3 combo and the occasional BS.

Now if you were doing to a wall to wall pull with a DRK, you can use TBN followed by Dark Arts + Abyssal Drain to life steal from all the mobs and when TBN breaks it provides you with 50 Blood which can be used to increase Blood Price to last 16s longer and Blood Weapon to last 8s longer or on Quietus to gain 480 MP per mob hit, all this with BW and BP also added in would synergize so well with the class depending on when you need each. All this provided you with constant HP drains, a powerful shield and lots of Blood to spend to regain MP to use on your abilities. If you are getting low on MP, Sole Survivor can be added in to the mix. Each ability accented one another.

If every tank gets the same Defensives and are viable everywhere, then the one becomes most valued is the one which does the most DPS. SE cannot prevent a meta from forming by making every tank close to one another and ridding them of their niches, A meta will happen and will always happen no matter how hard they try. There will always be the best tank combo, best healer combo, and best DPS pair.

If every tank is close in terms of DPS, then does that mean that it is balanced? They are all close to one another now because some have lost their utility and flexibility. PLD has great party utility and self sustain, yet it does more DPS than a WAR and DRK who do not have as much utility. It is balanced in numbers only. Before it was justified that a tank was lower in DPS because they had more tools to help, that is not the case anymore.

This is because of the maximizing DPS style we are headed towards, if not already there, everything we do is to make sure the boss is killed a few seconds faster as it is the difference between a wipe and clear due to the strict enrage timers. They need to focus on better boss design rather than what we have now. Tankbuster x3, High HP and strong auto attack damage does not equate to a good boss. Creative and Challenging bosses is what they should work on. They balance everything around Savage and fun class design is now an after thought.

I feel that soon they will balance everything around TBN and not Dark Knight as a whole.

Now about the new abilities they have given us in ShB.

Edge of Shadow/Darkness: This is supposedly our Dark Arts replacement without all the pre-planning or choice DA offered. This is an ability which costs 3000 MP and has a potency of 500 (350 if Darkness). Outside of your opener, the only time you are to use this ability is when you hit 6000 MP as to always have TBN available for TBs. It also gives you a buff called Darkside, which unlike it's previous iteration is just a 10% damage dealt increase and lasts for 30s upto 60s. The average use of EoS/D is 4 times a minute. Which means that managing Darkside is not even a factor anymore as it just happens if you do your rotation and it does not even end unless the boss has a huge cutscene or transition in the middle of the battle. Since 4 EoS/D a minute means you get 120s worth of Darkside per minute, it is just an easier Storm's eye buff to keep.

Flood of Shadow/Darkness: Deals damage with a potency of 300 (250 if Darkness) to enemies in a straight line and is the AoE equivalent of EoS/D.

Now these 2 abilities are very similar to a Samurai's kenki dump skills Shinten (ST) and Yaten (AoE). Just has a potency difference and a new animation. For a Samurai, these are just moves you use to make sure you never overcap on Kenki and for DRK to never overcap on MP (if you can even properly generate MP anymore). This shows how unoriginal the rework for the DRK is, the class is even more unoriginal that I first thought it was in ShB.

A Dark Knight is a Warrior who happens to know magical Shinten.

Living Shadow: Esteem is a glorified DoT who happens to have a flashy animation, it does not provide anything useful to the DRK, it is just something you press once every 2 mins and in most fights you don't even see him due to the amount of players or if you are focusing on the boss and party instead. A very annoying issue with this move is how long it lasts as compared how long the text says. It states that Esteem is summoned to battle and lasts for 24s, but he only starts his attacks at 18s and if the boss moves, his whole combo is interrupted and will not finish as he has to run towards the boss if Plunge was already used. Every attack Esteem fails is a 400 potency loss.

Stalwart Soul (aka Disco lights): Our newly introduced AoE combo which grants 20 Blood and restores some MP (600 if I recall) and does damage with a potency of 160 to all enemies within it's radius. New combo for Unleash is nice and all since they're pretty much throwing one to every tank. Except you get this ability at level 72, remember that the other 3 tanks get theirs at 40. So from Sastasha (if you are unlucky to get it synced) to all of the endgame dungeons in Stormblood, you do not have an AoE combo available for you to use. Just keep spamming that Unleash and FoS with the occasional AD and SE till then.

[Drakon]

Dark Missionary: Dark Mind but for the whole party, the magic damage reduction needs to be higher, 10% is too little, especially when it only reduces damage taken from magic only moves.
Same can be said for Heart of Light, as it is just a reskin of the same move.

Next on the list is about the issue with DRK in lower levels (Before 70).

Before you get to 70, you do not have access to your main defensive ability, TBN. For the lower levels atleast, let DRKs have an absorb shield with the same cooldown as TBN but for only 10% of it's max HP and does not provide the new DA buff when it break and at 70, it gets upgraded to TBN, this would prepare newer DRKs to learn how TBN works and are well prepared for when it gets upgraded to TBN.

TBN has an issue which will get worse as gear improves, the more HP you get, the less likely trash will be able to break it. If TBN does not break, it feels punishing. Old TBN was in my opinion better due to how weak it was compared to new TBN and the fact that it provided Blood instead of a free use of EoS/FoS. Blood which can then be used to gain MP, Damage or extend your buffs.

DRK's MP generation:

Due to the removal of many utilities and factors which helped DRK generate MP, they now have only 1 proper method of MP generation and that is Blood Weapon and BW at his point is just a nerfed version of it's former self. Also given the fact that Blood Weapon does NOT last for 10 secs but rather 9.8s, it makes it much harder to hit 5 GCDs.

Outside of Blood Weapon, one can argue Delirium (Budget Inner Release) allows you to gain MP. Using Bloodspiller rewards you with 200 MP x5 which is 1000 MP. This is 1/3rd of the cost for TBN or Edge/Flood.

Siphon Strike generates 600 MP per hit and DRK regenerates 600 MP passively. SS you anyways use normally as it is the only ST combo DRK even has.

Outside of the opener, around the one minute mark of the fight, you are just using your 1 2 3 combo with the occasional Bloodspiller till Edge is back for use. This is due to how much abilities cost v/s how much MP you generate now.

Living Dead: Best way to fix it is to provide a healing increase buff when you are in Walking Dead, around 25%. Also when Walking Dead is active, there should be a marker on top of the DRK with a countdown for when WD will end. Makes it so healers are more aware of when to throw out heals to the DRK.

MP is a DRK's main resource and as such was why many abilities required MP, Blood gauge existed as a secondary. All of the DRK combos made sense that it costed TP. Whereas Unleash did cost MP because unlike the other 3 tanks, you used dark energy to create spikes on the floor or Unmend, where you shot a ball of Dark Energy at the target did, or even Dark Passenger, which is where you blasted mobs in line which Dark Energy. There were lots of options for you to choose on what to spend your MP on.

You had a lot of MP spenders, but also many different methods to regain MP. Blood also generated in a very different way as compared to the set amount per combo (outside of BW which gives 10 more Blood per attack).

Now it is 3 MP abilities and 3 Blood Abilities. 1 way to generate MP properly.

DRKs use more MP per move than a Paladin and recover less.

DRK combos:

As of now DRK is the only tank without a second combo. As such, we use HS > SS > SE combo only. Which gives 20 Blood and restores some HP and 600 MP. Now instead of removing the enmity combo altogether, was it not a better idea to rework what the combo could done?

Paladins have Goring Blade combo which leaves a DoT or the Royal Authority combo which allows them the use of Atonement x3 to regenerate MP.

GNB's have their Solid Barrel combo which gives them HP, a barrier and a cartridge. They also have their 6 hit combo every 30s.

WAR has 2 combos, Storms Path and Storm's eye, the first one heals them for a bit and gives a total of 30 Gauge. The second one gives a 10% damage buff for 30s and 20 Gauge.

They could have easily made the Power Slash combo into something like a High Potency MP regen combo or heck, bring Scourge back as a DoT combo finisher. Just give some options to choose from, pressing 1 2 3 over and over is painful compared to what the class could do before.

Souleater does not look good, the first 2 combos feel like you are swinging a greatsword around and you can feel the weight. Then comes the third combo where you do a jump like Mario with the heavy sword. Power Slash had weight behind the attack and then you proceeded to blast the enemy with dark energy. Kinda reminded me of this https://youtu.be/iGMtXqo1N9E?t=105

Scourge could be brought back as a DoT on 30s recast. Just for the animation alone it is worth having. For anyone wondering what Scourge is, https://youtu.be/rUx4izS_2lk?t=30

The class overall just needed some tweaking in Stormblood to Shadowbringers, not a whole rework making it an Edgy child of a Warrior and Samurai.

Simplifying classes will not help this game in the long run, once classes lose their diversity and complexity, this game will reach the same spot the classes are at in BfA.

TLDR
Dark Knight is now slower than it's previous iterations, does not have proper personal utility, other tanks have better raid utility and is very clunky and lacks proper MP generation tools like it once did. It has also taken a hit identity wise. It is an MP starved class. The whole class is an uninspired mess which was quickly put together for the sake of a rework or to cater to newer players who want everything simplified. Lost all it's complexity and cool animations. Homogenization has made the job take a huge hit toolkit wise or rather it is likely balanced over Savage content and the class' identity and fun is an after thought.

[AnonymousBard]

As someone who mains DRK and maxed him to 80. I love the rework.

He has a lot more flexibility outside of his Soul Eater rotation (which is mainly mixed in between other combos or during cooldowns).

His old build was pretty much 1, maybe two rotations with an buff/debuff here or there. And you had to stick to those for optimal dmg output.

Now you can mix and match multiple abilities without risking optimization, while choosing an aoe rotation or a single target rotation; all without risking much optimization.

It's way to much to type for my point to be more fleshed out, but that's my TL;DR.

[Drakon]

Originally posted by ProjectTruth:

As someone who mains DRK and maxed him to 80.
I love the rework.

He has a lot more flexibility outside of his Soul Eater rotation (which is mainly mixed in between other combos or during cooldowns).

His old build was pretty much 1, maybe two rotations with an buff/debuff here or there. And you had to stick to those for optimal dmg output.

Now you can mix and match multiple abilities without risking optimization, while choosing an aoe rotation or a single target rotation; all without risking much optimization.

It's way to much to type for my point to be more fleshed out, but that's my TL;DR.

DRK is only busy now during it's opener as it includes a lot of double weaving, 6 if I recall properly. Outside of that opener, you are back to that one single rotation till it slowly builds up MP and Blood for use, around 2 SE combos at the very least for 1 Edge/TBN/Flood. If one of your oGCDs comes out of CD you just use it and wait for that again.

The class is MP starved until BW is off cooldown, even then BW does not give us enough MP to fill half of our MP bar even when paired up Delirium. 5 Bloodspillers only gives 1000 MP and BW gives 3000 MP(600x5). MP is everything to a DRK and we do not have many proper means of generating those.

AoE rotation is pretty much Unleash and Stalwart Soul with AD incase you're low, Quietus if it is available and Salted Earth. FoS if you hit 6k MP. Making Abyssal Drain have a recast time of 60s is a huge issue to it's self sustain and also the removal of Sole Survivor. Dark Knight was healing constantly before in AoE situations in SB. Stalwart Soul is also borderline useless (600 MP) compared to Old Quietus (480 MP per mob) and DA + Old Abyssal Drain.

That reminds me, Unleash and Stalwart Soul do not scale with Skillspeed. Which means if you use Blood Weapon in AoE, you get 2400 MP instead (600x4).

We do not have other combos in ST situations. BS spam is not even anywhere close to being a combo. Dark Knight's rotation is straightforward now. You do not have any pre planning, any choices or anything other than Mana (always have enough for a TBN) and Gauge to keep track of. Darkside is a buff which will never go away if you did your rotation normally.

[VanGoghComplex]

I don't like the rework. Compared to the previous iteration, 5.0 DRK feels a mile wide and an inch deep, has lost its character, and is nowhere near as fun to play in dungeons. It does feel a little better to play against bosses than the previous version, but that's my gut - I don't know if the numbers back it up.

[Drakon]

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

I don't like the rework. Compared to the previous iteration, 5.0 DRK feels a mile wide and an inch deep, has lost its character, and is nowhere near as fun to play in dungeons. It does feel a little better to play against bosses than the previous version, but that's my gut - I don't know if the numbers back it up.

I do not know how many people prefer 5.0 DRK v/s 4.5 DRK. By what I've seen in the forums and the discussion subreddit, more people tend to like the old DRK over the reworked one.

By what I understood from many people's complain about SB DRK is that Dark Arts was too spammy, the barest minimum they could have done to fix this issue is keep DA on a longer recast, 5s or 10s seems perfect, even 15s (although I do not prefer 15s+). Dark Arts was fine as an enhancement ability and is a unique concept which made DRK stand out.

Against bosses it feels better due to the simplified aggro generation I assume and now you do not need to worry about a BLM getting some lucky crits and taking aggro. Maybe due to the buff to the TBN shield or probably due to a simplified and easy rotation to do, so focusing on the boss and your party is much easier.

Dungeons wise DRK does not feel like a drain tank. No contant heals, no TBN Quietus DA Abyssal Drain Loop with the MP generation and haste utility we had before. Now the class feels like it revolves around TBN rather TBN just being a part of our kit.

[VanGoghComplex]

Originally posted by Aeda:

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

I don't like the rework. Compared to the previous iteration, 5.0 DRK feels a mile wide and an inch deep, has lost its character, and is nowhere near as fun to play in dungeons. It does feel a little better to play against bosses than the previous version, but that's my gut - I don't know if the numbers back it up.

I do not know how many people prefer 5.0 DRK v/s 4.5 DRK. By what I've seen in the forums and the discussion subreddit, more people tend to like the old DRK over the reworked one.

By what I understood from many people's complain about SB DRK is that Dark Arts was too spammy, the barest minimum they could have done to fix this issue is keep DA on a longer recast, 5s or 10s seems perfect, even 15s (although I do not prefer 15s+). Dark Arts was fine as an enhancement ability and is a unique concept which made DRK stand out.

Against bosses it feels better due to the simplified aggro generation I assume and now you do not need to worry about a BLM getting some lucky crits and taking aggro. Maybe due to the buff to the TBN shield or probably due to a simplified and easy rotation to do, so focusing on the boss and your party is much easier.

Dungeons wise DRK does not feel like a drain tank. No contant heals, no TBN Quietus DA Abyssal Drain Loop with the MP generation and haste utility we had before. Now the class feels like it revolves around TBN rather TBN just being a part of our kit.

Well said. I personally didn't mind the DA spam, but I only ever used it during dedicated DPS bursts, and that almost only ever happened on bosses. I probably was not optimizing my DPS very well, but I was certainly capable of my primary role as a tank.

[Drakon]

Originally posted by VanGoghComplex:

Originally posted by Aeda:

I do not know how many people prefer 5.0 DRK v/s 4.5 DRK. By what I've seen in the forums and the discussion subreddit, more people tend to like the old DRK over the reworked one.

By what I understood from many people's complain about SB DRK is that Dark Arts was too spammy, the barest minimum they could have done to fix this issue is keep DA on a longer recast, 5s or 10s seems perfect, even 15s (although I do not prefer 15s+). Dark Arts was fine as an enhancement ability and is a unique concept which made DRK stand out.

Against bosses it feels better due to the simplified aggro generation I assume and now you do not need to worry about a BLM getting some lucky crits and taking aggro. Maybe due to the buff to the TBN shield or probably due to a simplified and easy rotation to do, so focusing on the boss and your party is much easier.

Dungeons wise DRK does not feel like a drain tank. No contant heals, no TBN Quietus DA Abyssal Drain Loop with the MP generation and haste utility we had before. Now the class feels like it revolves around TBN rather TBN just being a part of our kit.

Well said. I personally didn't mind the DA spam, but I only ever used it during dedicated DPS bursts, and that almost only ever happened on bosses. I probably was not optimizing my DPS very well, but I was certainly capable of my primary role as a tank.

I used DA based on the priority list it had, I do not remember all of the priorities, but I haven't forgotten that CnS is at the top of the list. I would have to search up that old guide I had used for Stormblood DRK.

Syphon Strike should not have been enhanced by Dark Arts in my opinion, it created this whole situation where using DA on either SE or Siphon Strike would either be a DPS loss or gain depending on your luck. I'd say that SB DRK's rotation got a bit overwhelming in Savage and Ultimate due to keeping track of a lot of things while having a very high CPM. The class needed tweaking in the end, not a rework.

[Ganz]

Having mained DRK since the beginning of HW, i'm loving the new iteration of my favourite class since ShB release. Barring the fact that some abilities potencies are a bit low, the simplification in general of the job is something I'm thoroughly enjoying. I'm not MLG gotta be this good to ride the bus, but neither am I a braindead potato who doesn't know what cooldowns are and as such feel that there's just enough going on to keep me immersed without becoming overwhelmed.

[Urazz]

So the current version of the DRK seems to be more mana starved is the general consensus I'm hearing. Maybe if the mana generation is improved on the basic rotation by a decent margin, then it'll worth it.

[Geno Justice]

Let me have a sustain like War, PLD and a built in heal and shield like GNB. No idea why SE hated DRK's being big pull dungeon heroes when Wars literally spammed one cooldown and did the whirlwind thing and got health back like they had bloodbath back in heavensward.

Paladins have an amazing heal for sustain and have the potential to crit themselves too. GNB's as mentioned before have a built in heal and shield in the second hit of their combo while also having a regen and a 25 second cooldown 15% defense up.

Wars got nascid flash or whatever its called and its basically a bloodbath for 5 seconds which they can spam aoes and get a ton of health back.

Meanwhile I'm over here with a 60 second cooldown abyssal drain that doesn't heal for much and soul eater which is the third hit of the main combo (granted it does give more health back to you if you crit) but that means stopping your entire AoE to sustain yourself especially if you got a healer that is more focused on being a dps than topping you off.

Back in heavensward and SB I would laugh as I'd pop rampart, blood price, dark arts, abyssal drain and sustain myself through even the hardest hitting mobs but now I have to pray for blackest night to give me another health bar (Shield health of course) and overall hoping the healer can keep me alive since I'm busy spamming AoE's to kill the mobs faster and I cant sustain because (lol abyssal drain 60 second cooldown)

End rant.

[Drakon]

Originally posted by Genocide Justice:

Let me have a sustain like War, PLD and a built in heal and shield like GNB. No idea why SE hated DRK's being big pull dungeon heroes when Wars literally spammed one cooldown and did the whirlwind thing and got health back like they had bloodbath back in heavensward.

Paladins have an amazing heal for sustain and have the potential to crit themselves too. GNB's as mentioned before have a built in heal and shield in the second hit of their combo while also having a regen and a 25 second cooldown 15% defense up.

Wars got nascid flash or whatever its called and its basically a bloodbath for 5 seconds which they can spam aoes and get a ton of health back.

Meanwhile I'm over here with a 60 second cooldown abyssal drain that doesn't heal for much and soul eater which is the third hit of the main combo (granted it does give more health back to you if you crit) but that means stopping your entire AoE to sustain yourself especially if you got a healer that is more focused on being a dps than topping you off.

Back in heavensward and SB I would laugh as I'd pop rampart, blood price, dark arts, abyssal drain and sustain myself through even the hardest hitting mobs but now I have to pray for blackest night to give me another health bar (Shield health of course) and overall hoping the healer can keep me alive since I'm busy spamming AoE's to kill the mobs faster and I cant sustain because (lol abyssal drain 60 second cooldown)

End rant.

Even in Akademia, Abyssal Drain is of no use, triple pull and drain when I'm low restores only 60-65%. There is no Sole Survivor as well for the extra sustain. I really miss the TBN Drain Quietus loop. It would be great if Drain was available on it's old recast, but costs the same as Edge/Flood.

[Drakon]

Originally posted by Urazz:

So the current version of the DRK seems to be more mana starved is the general consensus I'm hearing. Maybe if the mana generation is improved on the basic rotation by a decent margin, then it'll worth it.

I do wish it was easy to increase it's MP generation, but if MP generation was even increased, then Edge would just become more of a spam. If you add a recast to Edge, then the opener gets destroyed. They made Edge a bit too good that if any other MP spender was added, it would be looked down upon. Hell, even TBN has to give a free Edge or else it would just feel like a waste of 3k MP.

They kinda messed up the whole class due to the introduction of Edge/Flood and their insane potency and it being oGCD that unless you make Edge/Flood a no cost oGCD which is available every 20s and shares a recast timer with one another. Any sort of change to MP would just break the class.

Difference between SB DRK and ShB DRK's single target potency is 420 potency and if a double use of Edge is done, it is 920 potency difference.

SB: Hard Slash > Siphon Strike ^DA >Souleater is 150 + 250 + 140 + 300 = 840 potency or if you do a DA for even Siphon, it is 980.

ShB: Hard Slash > Siphon Strike ^Edge > Souleater is 200 + 300 + 500 + 400 = 1400 potency. Now if you use an Edge after Hard Slash as well, that is 1900 potency.

Edge has a stronghold over the whole class that unless they remove it or introduce an ability stronger than it, no new MP choices will be viable.

[Elazul]

Other than Living Dead still being a crap invuln I enjoy the new DRK. As for how to fix it? Hmm... perhaps remove the healing requirement completely and make it so you need to push the button a second time to turn off Walking Dead effect or you die. The skill places to high a burden on AST and SCH healers. WHM have Bene so they're good as long as they save it for LD.

[VanGoghComplex]

Originally posted by Elazul:

Other than Living Dead still being a crap invuln I enjoy the new DRK. As for how to fix it? Hmm... perhaps remove the healing requirement completely and make it so you need to push the button a second time to turn off Walking Dead effect or you die. The skill places to high a burden on AST and SCH healers. WHM have Bene so they're good as long as they save it for LD.

Living Dead is only crap if you put it up next to Hallowed Ground, and next to HG, both Holmgang and Superbolide are crap too.

Doesn't need fixed. It's basically a 10 - 20 second period for the healer to top you off. If a healer can't top a tank off in 10 seconds, something else is already wrong.