Griever as a Primal?

[Chronoreaper]

Seeing as many Elder Primals can exist once they're given form (Bahamut, Odin, Warring Triad) and that new ones can be created still even from a similar image (3.5 trailer one not spoiling guys) and i got thinking, What if Griever from FFVIII was used as a base for a future primal in FF14? such as from a continent where a beast tribe couldn't summon there primal anymore and opted a new religon (Warring Triad basically) or just a new one in general?, granted they could fall back onto using a woman based on Ultimecia (maybe not a time mage) who became obsessed with the perfect primal or some ♥♥♥♥ like that so it gives options for phases that reference the hybrid forms for the two.

Really love how Griever was designed back then and be awesome to see him reimagined on here hell for a title for him i'd go with Griever, Lord of the Infinite (FFVIII time magic reference basically) or Griever, King of All Beasts.

[Oberon]

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

such as from a continent where a beast tribe couldn't summon there primal anymore

There is no such limit. You just need a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of Aether, typically from Crystals, and a lot of willpower. This is how Gilgamesh managed to summon Enkidu by accident. So if a Beast Tribe was in a location where they couldn't summon their usual primal, they wouldn't be able to summon any Primal. The area would have to be so devoid of Aether that a Primal wouldn't be able to maintain their form outside of the initial supply...and we wouldn't want to go there anyway because pretty much everything we do relies on Aether.

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

and opted a new religon (Warring Triad basically) or just a new one in general?

When you get down to it, there's no difference between the Warring Triad and the Beast Tribes outside of scale.

[LZXio]

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

such as from a continent where a beast tribe couldn't summon there primal anymore

There is no such limit. You just need a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of Aether, typically from Crystals, and a lot of willpower. This is how Gilgamesh managed to summon Enkidu by accident. So if a Beast Tribe was in a location where they couldn't summon their usual primal, they wouldn't be able to summon any Primal. The area would have to be so devoid of Aether that a Primal wouldn't be able to maintain their form outside of the initial supply...and we wouldn't want to go there anyway because pretty much everything we do relies on Aether.

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

and opted a new religon (Warring Triad basically) or just a new one in general?

When you get down to it, there's no difference between the Warring Triad and the Beast Tribes outside of scale.

Actually there is a difference, but lets skip that shall we? In all seriousness though, from what I've understood you can basically summon any living creature that will have the personality the worshippers think they have (which explains why Garuda always behaves the way their followers think she will, save for one time where it goes wrong, the same also goes for Titan), and their power will vary depending on the amount of aether they received prior to being summoned. So, yes, OP, it could, as long as they could fit it in the game's story.

[Gabby]

Shirayuki474 eredeti hozzászólása:

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

When you get down to it, there's no difference between the Warring Triad and the Beast Tribes outside of scale.

Actually there is, all of 3 them has worshipers which looks the same way as their god while there is no single primal except for Bahamut where their worshipers would look familiar.

Someone forgot Good King Moggle Mog.

And Shiva.

King Thordan looks exactly like one would have imagined him, just way bigger, as well as his Knights of the Round.

Arguably Ifrit looks a lot like Amalj'aa.

Lakshmi looks like a giant snake lady and is the primal of a tribe of snake ladies.

Susano may well look like a Kojin under that suit of armor.

Most of the Primals actually have something about their physical appearance which marks them as looking similar to the people who summon them. Even if it's subtle. But some are brought about from myths and legends that don't require them to have any similarities. In the same way some Earth religions have worshipped Gods with no humanoid or human appearance to them.

Religion, and their Primals, all vary.

[Chronoreaper]

Sorry guys had to sleep (aussie here) basically when i meant they cannot bring there primal out i meant the Warring Triad because they're all elder primals from a old era and the same continent that Bahamut was summoned (sorry its hard to spell it for me) and one of them is reptile centaurs which we see at the last unlocked zone in HW and because they're locked up tight the Triad cannot be summoned its the entire basis of why the Garleans came there to learn to lock up primals so they can't be resummoned.

Also i figured go with the Ultimecia route because we only just get a glimpse of a primal taking form in 3.5 the whole Griever, Lord of the Infinite instance in the story we see the Ultimecia replacement literally create him and we get to see the end process of a created being who wasn't born of religon or myth and was born to be infinitely more powerful then the rest (maybe not literally but adds to his personality), also if he had to be forced to be a actual element as it seems implied now (ie Ravana is Fire/Earth = Sword Hive) i'd say give Griever the Light/Dark = Infinite or something like that.

[Oberon]

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

Sorry guys had to sleep (aussie here) basically when i meant they cannot bring there primal out i meant the Warring Triad because they're all elder primals from a old era and the same continent that Bahamut was summoned (sorry its hard to spell it for me). and one of them is reptile centaurs which we see at the last unlocked zone in HW and because they're locked up tight the Triad cannot be summoned its the entire basis of why the Garleans came there to learn to lock up primals so they can't be resummoned..

We've already seen that the worshipers would rather attempt to break their Primal out of containment than make up a new one. They're tempered, after all, so they're not just going to drop one God for a new one.

[Chronoreaper]

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

Sorry guys had to sleep (aussie here) basically when i meant they cannot bring there primal out i meant the Warring Triad because they're all elder primals from a old era and the same continent that Bahamut was summoned (sorry its hard to spell it for me). and one of them is reptile centaurs which we see at the last unlocked zone in HW and because they're locked up tight the Triad cannot be summoned its the entire basis of why the Garleans came there to learn to lock up primals so they can't be resummoned..

We've already seen that the worshipers would rather attempt to break their Primal out of containment than make up a new one. They're tempered, after all, so they're not just going to drop one God for a new one.

While i do fully agree with you apply a real world effics to that from the past, Christians weren't a gigantic relgion once upon a time like all of them so it is possible, also the reptoid centaurs were already close to where there elder primal was locked up so course they're gonna try to free them.

[Oberon]

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

We've already seen that the worshipers would rather attempt to break their Primal out of containment than make up a new one. They're tempered, after all, so they're not just going to drop one God for a new one.

While i do fully agree with you apply a real world effics to that from the past, Christians weren't a gigantic relgion once upon a time like all of them so it is possible, also the reptoid centaurs were already close to where there elder primal was locked up so course they're gonna try to free them.

Christians? What? Dude, I was talking about Sophia's followers. Like I said, they're tempered, brainwashed to worship their Primal and only their Primal, the only cure for which is a beheading. For a tempered subject to drop one Primal for another would be an absolutely massive turn in the story and completely undo everything we know about them.

[Chronoreaper]

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

While i do fully agree with you apply a real world effics to that from the past, Christians weren't a gigantic relgion once upon a time like all of them so it is possible, also the reptoid centaurs were already close to where there elder primal was locked up so course they're gonna try to free them.

Christians? What? Dude, I was talking about Sophia's followers. Like I said, they're tempered, brainwashed to worship their Primal and only their Primal, the only cure for which is a beheading. For a tempered subject to drop one Primal for another would be an absolutely massive turn in the story and completely undo everything we know about them.

Oh i thought you mean the devil guy my bad, yea Sophia i think is the embodiment of tempering since i think she had the original tribe then successfully started converting others, and never say never if something is possible the reverse is also possible but rather keep it in a straight line makes more sense that way.

[Oberon]

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

The Mayor of Murder Town eredeti hozzászólása:

Christians? What? Dude, I was talking about Sophia's followers. Like I said, they're tempered, brainwashed to worship their Primal and only their Primal, the only cure for which is a beheading. For a tempered subject to drop one Primal for another would be an absolutely massive turn in the story and completely undo everything we know about them.

Oh i thought you mean the devil guy my bad, yea Sophia i think is the embodiment of tempering since i think she had the original tribe then successfully started converting others,

Sophia is about Balance; she has enormous scales in her boss arena, she mentions the concept multiple times, and it appears in the lyrics for her battle theme as well. Tempering is just this thing Primals can do.

And no, she didn't have the "original tribe" since she was summoned around the same time as Sephirot, Zurvan and Bahamut; all of whom were summoned (Due to, as usual, the Ascians teaching them) in response to the invasion of Allag. There's also no reason to assume the Ascians weren't teaching about Primals since even before that.

Chronoreaper eredeti hozzászólása:

and never say never if something is possible the reverse is also possible but rather keep it in a straight line makes more sense that way.

Yeah, the reverse in this case is a beheading. Hence all the drama surrounding The kobold kid in the 3.4 story.

[Chronoreaper]

Forgot about that Kobold kid thing your right there, was odd seeing Titan behave that way intiailly, and i thought that primals might've existed since the first era since theres nothing stating they haven't.

[Drakzen]

How about as a voidsent? Diabolos is one and Griever does look like something that could be a voidsent xD

Also what is the Garleans unintentionally summon it? Griever, from what I have read, was created based by Ultimecia an a scan reveals that Squall believes it to be the most powerful, the Garleans see themselves as the most powerful.

That last one is just a thought but something to consider xD

[Gabby]

Tempering is literally a major plot element of the game. Your character is so special because s/he can't be tempered

Let's not pretend primals tempering people isn't the commonplace.

Chrono, I suggest you do some research on this subject since this conversation has a pattern of you saying what you think is true and then is having to correct you. You've got it wrong. :/

[Chronoreaper]

I never denied it! jeez people quit trying to nitpick away from the subject, all i did was suggest its possible if they decide to do it didn't say it happens already.

Also Drakzen i did think of that but i think voidsent come under there own subtype when compared to a primal and closest you might get are Anima (lot of people seem to want him) and Diabolos for those ones, with Griever if he has a element i'd combine Light and Dark to form that grey void between them or even go with Unaspected if thats possible.

[Gabby]

But it's not possible. You still don't seem to get what tempering means.

Voidsent is actually a classification for any monster who's nature and origin cannot be explained. However in the case of Diabolos we know he was summoned to Eorzea by a group of ancient Void Mages.

He very well may qualify as a primal as he was summoned via mortals channeling Aether. He apparently is unique in that he never went away because as an independent he fed off aether sources to sustain himself. However, there's no official confirmation of this.

[Oberon]

Seraphna eredeti hozzászólása:

But it's not possible. You still don't seem to get what tempering means.

Voidsent is actually a classification for any monster who's nature and origin cannot be explained. However in the case of Diabolos we know he was summoned to Eorzea by a group of ancient Void Mages.

He very well may qualify as a primal as he was summoned via mortals channeling Aether. He apparently is unique in that he never went away because as an independent he fed off aether sources to sustain himself. However, there's no official confirmation of this.

I had assumed that he actually was from the Void itself, that it actually wasn't summoning in the same sense that the Beast Tribes would use, but just opening a door to the Void and pulling him through.

Drakzen eredeti hozzászólása:

Also what is the Garleans unintentionally summon it? Griever, from what I have read, was created based by Ultimecia an a scan reveals that Squall believes it to be the most powerful, the Garleans see themselves as the most powerful.

Unlikely, considering the Garleans' inability to use Aether, hence the reliance on Magitek.