[spoilers] Sans Knows who Flowey is

[Pizzarugi]

I'm sure this might be common knowledge, but since I've seen no info about it on the wiki or it talked about on the forums, I'm gonna go ahead and post here just in case.

I've decided to do a reset after a forced neutral pacifist run. In a frantic fit of DETERMINATION, I've been repeatedly fighting Asgore time and time again. I'm convinced, given the change of dialogue when you reduce him to low HP, there might be a secret way of getting him to stop fighting without critically injuring him.

Unfortunately, my attempts at beating him repeatedly has yielded no new results from Asgore, the dialogue from Flowey keeps changing everytime, however. First he simply mentions that he doesn't want friends unless they're someone like him. After that, he tells you to go talk to Papyrus and ask him about a Flowey Fan Club which he (Papyrus) actually started at one point.

But here's the interesting details: The third time, Flowey asks if you talked to Papyrus then immediately says he knows you didn't. And for what it's worth, he would've invited his "garbage brother" to join the club. He proceeds to warn you that Sans should NEVER learn about you and what you can do. Finally, Flowey says that Sans has caused him to make several resets in the past!

So, yeah, that's all I have to say. Sans is aware of Flowey, he knows what Flowey is capable of, and he DUNKED HIS SORRY ♥♥♥ multiple times before you came along.

This discovery of the new dialogue with Flowey...
Has filled me with DETERMINATION!

I must continue my fights with Asgore. Surely I'll get some more interesting dialogue out of Flowey if nothing else.

[windblade]

That is interesting. There's a few things to note, however. First, based on what you said, Sans still may not know anything since Flowey had the ability to save and reset before you came along. Sans would forget everything that happened. He's said he knows that the resets are happening, but he also clearly experiences memory loss with everyone else. Second is that flowey isn't actually all that strong without the six human souls, (Toriel managed to blow him away, after all) and he's stated elsewhere that he never manged to obtain them before now because Asgore would never show them to him until you came along.

A better title is "Flowey knows who Sans is".

[ComeOnAndSam]

Sans has power of time and space, which likely means he's fought flowy countless times.

But flowy has a similar ability because of determination, which is an even stronger power than whatever Sans can do since he remembers every reset crystal clear.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by windblade:

That is interesting. There's a few things to note, however. First, based on what you said, Sans still may not know anything since Flowey had the ability to save and reset before you came along. Sans would forget everything that happened. He's said he knows that the resets are happening, but he also clearly experiences memory loss with everyone else. Second is that flowey isn't actually all that strong without the six human souls, (Toriel managed to blow him away, after all) and he's stated elsewhere that he never manged to obtain them before now because Asgore would never show them to him until you came along.

A better title is "Flowey knows who Sans is".

Yes, I forgot to consider that Sans is merely a time traveler, but not a time manipulator like you and Flowey. Sans is just as subject to time manipulation as everyone else, it's just that he's aware of it happening.

Originally posted by SamJa:

Sans has power of time and space, which likely means he's fought flowy countless times.

But flowy has a similar ability because of determination, which is an even stronger power than whatever Sans can do since he remembers every reset crystal clear.

It's also possible that it's more than just determination that gives Flowey this power.

[Pizzarugi]

It appears there is no more dialogue from Flowey after the fifth time you defeat Asgore. On the fourth meeting, Flowey asks if you're trying to be his friend then realizes you only want to see what he has to say before throwing him away "like a used toy".

On the fifth and later encounter, he repeatedly asks if you have something BETTER to do.

[Vorebait]

Sans doesn't know exactly 100% what is going on, but Sans is aware that something is going on in regards to time and space. I don't believe Sans knows Flowey, but has met Flowey in different timelines and has defeated him.

I've tried mentioning the idea a few times already before, but I do believe Sans at least understands some basics of quantum mechanics. Especially given the book in his home is about the observational effect in regards to QM. That is to say, subatomic particles exists in multiple states at once until they encounter a form of matter (the observer).

This opens up the idea of the multiverse which would help aid explain whats going on in Undertale. It may seem like a far stretch, but the simple fact is that all the choices you make in the game give you different endings/outcomes. The multiverse idea is that...all those choices you make exist in different universes/timelines. Which means theres a near infinite amount of universes in existance. And that kind of relationship between choices (in the idea of the multiverse) and the choices you are able to make and the outcomes in Undertale just further, to me, makes that idea probable in the context of Undertale.

[Crystalitar]

Its interesting yeah, and it feels neat if you have found something you have not seen mentioned before.

But yeah, seen this before on the gamefaqs undertale secret stuff. On the segment of trolling flowey. I want papyrus fanclub now

[Shuno]

Flowey admits that Sans caused him several of his resets, but that doesn't mean that he never won in a fight.
Determination can do wonders. Flowey just needs to attack in a right time.

Also it's interesting that Papyrus is the only one who Flowey still finds worthy to talk with after countless resets.

[Reeber]

Well ofcourse there's a multiverse in Undertale. Your game is one universe, mine is another.
Sans said "our reports showed a massive anomaly in the timespace continuum. timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting..." "until suddenly, everything ends."
New games, reloads, resets, endings, the universe stops the moment you close the game. And I'm guessing the everything ends refers to your universe being erased semi permanently.
The only way to keep it running is by playing.

[Kevzy]

^ ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[ComeOnAndSam]

Originally posted by windblade:

It's also possible that it's more than just determination that gives Flowey this power.

I like the idea that Sans is a human monster fusion, but he can't be. Flowey steals his soul multiple times, but nothing special comes out of it. Youd think the exponentially strongest monster in the underground would have an amazingly powerful soul, but he doesn't. His powers must come from more artificial means.

[DarkLordGig]

Originally posted by T Fur 2 Pizzarugi:

I'm sure this might be common knowledge, but since I've seen no info about it on the wiki or it talked about on the forums, I'm gonna go ahead and post here just in case.

I've decided to do a reset after a forced neutral pacifist run. In a frantic fit of DETERMINATION, I've been repeatedly fighting Asgore time and time again. I'm convinced, given the change of dialogue when you reduce him to low HP, there might be a secret way of getting him to stop fighting without critically injuring him.

Unfortunately, my attempts at beating him repeatedly has yielded no new results from Asgore, the dialogue from Flowey keeps changing everytime, however. First he simply mentions that he doesn't want friends unless they're someone like him. After that, he tells you to go talk to Papyrus and ask him about a Flowey Fan Club which he (Papyrus) actually started at one point.

But here's the interesting details: The third time, Flowey asks if you talked to Papyrus then immediately says he knows you didn't. And for what it's worth, he would've invited his "garbage brother" to join the club. He proceeds to warn you that Sans should NEVER learn about you and what you can do. Finally, Flowey says that Sans has caused him to make several resets in the past!

So, yeah, that's all I have to say. Sans is aware of Flowey, he knows what Flowey is capable of, and he DUNKED HIS SORRY ♥♥♥ multiple times before you came along.

This discovery of the new dialogue with Flowey...
Has filled me with DETERMINATION!

I must continue my fights with Asgore. Surely I'll get some more interesting dialogue out of Flowey if nothing else.

I am doing multiple pacifest palythroughs myself to see if anything happens. I''ll post some more if I find anything.

[Reeber]

Hey Gig! What do you think, your game or Undertale, which has the worse Genocide mode?

[DarkLordGig]

Originally posted by Meridia:

Hey Gig! What do you think, your game or Undertale, which has the worse Genocide mode?

well since I am not a nerd. I guess mine is the worst!!!

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by SamJa:

Originally posted by windblade:

It's also possible that it's more than just determination that gives Flowey this power.

I like the idea that Sans is a human monster fusion, but he can't be. Flowey steals his should multiple times, but nothing special comes out of it. Youd think the exponentially strongest monster in the underground would have an amazingly powerful soul, but he doesn't. His powers must come from more artificial means.

I was implying that Flowey has the power, Flowey and Frisk both. Sans is just a monster. :P