Gender Discussion? Spoilers -_-

[LEAPFROG8462]

So I get that the game has to stay gender nuetral to allow the player to choose their own name. But even so, the story should be built around the player having a gender, and at first i thought, Girl! Makes sence, you have the option to date Papyrus, and to a lesser extent Sans. Seems legit. But things get all mixed up when Alphys shows up. And as the dialog states Alphys is a girl, so the whole dating prospect should be out of the picture. BUT NO, the ENTIRE hotland (Nuetral and passifist) is Alphys trying to keep her cool whildst talking to the player. And toward the end a letter which the player delivers to Alphys is mistaken as a love letter from the player, and you and her go on a date. Where she confesses to love Undyne, who is also a girl, as proven by monster kid in his dialog, and by frikkin LOOKING at her.

Now dearest reader prepare for conclusions:

If we are a boy: Papyrus is a Homosexual, perhaps Sans too, Alphys can be both bisexual and a lesbian. Though she prefers Undyne, her dialog suggests that she may also have intrest in the player. And we are gay as well, by dating Papyrus.

If we are a girl: Papyrus and Sans are clear. And Alphys is still lesbian, and always will be due to her love for Undyne.

Genders not a thing?: So if that were true, why would they lable characters with "she" or "he." Or maybe, genders are a thing, but they don't influence... eh... you know...

Before i wrap this up i will state that i do not have a problem with them or real people being lesbian or gay, no problem at all, i just want to know which one Undertale's cast are meant to be.

Now, to conclude, the path with the least amount of labels would be our character being a boy. But either way, Alphys is lesbian. Which im fine with, but i feel it does not fit the story well. So i ask you, what are your thoughts? I would love to hear them :D

And if you can help it, dont rub my nose in someone else' thread. Thank you


EDIT BASED ON COMMENTS: I would like to clarify a few things:
I undertand that all these "dates" were silly get togethers that are meant to connect you to the characters better, i only talk about them seriously because it's about the only evidence i have to conclude what gender Frisk is and direction of the other characters.

I get that this is meant to be up to you to decide your own fate, and by that logic we could be any combinatoin of genders and it mostly dosent matter. But that logic makes for a bad converstion. Im only making the assumption that we go on every date we can, and use that to try to determain what the characters INTENDED genders and preference would be.

Quit assuming that this is consuming my life, im not taking this that seriously. I have beaten the game in every way i can, and i only want to delve into logistics. So if you're thinking "Who the heck cares?" You dont have to voice your distaste, i have feelings too :)


~LEAPFROG

[Michelozzo]

After getting the hang out option with Papyrus, I can safely conclude that he is most definately just a skeleton looking for friends, and is not inviting anyone to the bone zone, regardless of their genitalia situation. He's just so wonderfully idiot savant about...well everything that he thinks dating is a usual way to get friends too.

As for the sans 'dates' implying some kind of affection, never gone out for lunch with a buddy before? Two people at a restaurant having a meal together =/= date. Plus he's far too chill to worry about romance methinks, he can't even take care of his pet rock for cryin' out loud!

[135dB of screaming cockatoo]

Ahh, looks like this discussion really blew up.

It seems Frisk has two options in regards to their gender:
-They're ambiguous, for whatever reason. Player projection like some people were saying, or maybe just general mysteriousness? The rest of the cast just uses neutral pronouns to be polite.

-They're nonbinary; Frisk has a clear-set gender, which is neither female nor male. (I've seen a lot of believable points in defense of this, so I think I'm inclined to believe it more.)

So, yeah, that's the general knowledge on this topic.

[JayKaye]

Salted Squid の投稿を引用：

Ahh, looks like this discussion really blew up.

It seems Frisk has two options in regards to their gender:
-They're ambiguous, for whatever reason. Player projection like some people were saying, or maybe just general mysteriousness? The rest of the cast just uses neutral pronouns to be polite.

-They're nonbinary; Frisk has a clear-set gender, which is neither female nor male. (I've seen a lot of believable points in defense of this, so I think I'm inclined to believe it more.)

So, yeah, that's the general knowledge on this topic.

Male and female are sexes, not genders. Unless you're a mutant you only get the two choices. And gender is just a bs social construct based on gender roles and expectations that in an ideal egalitarian world wouldn't even exist. But don't tell transexuals that, without discriminatory gender expectations they wouldn't exist either.

But no it's entirely player choice. You want to interpret Frisk as a trigender pyrofox, sure. Whatever. The game purposely does not give you any information that would contradict that, even going so far as to give you the purposely gendered items (manly bandana and tutu) at roughly the same time.

[LEAPFROG8462]

Dragon Paladin の投稿を引用：

LEAPFROG8462 の投稿を引用：

I could have missed that, where did they flat out say that they were goat people?

Go back to talk to the turtle and one of the question options is asking if Asgore and Toriel are goats.
He answers back with what I said.

Cool, thanks

[LEAPFROG8462]

purripi 愛 の投稿を引用：

Oh my god who the hell cares, just play the game, what the hells the point of DISCUSSING genders of characters.

We have already played the game, what more is left than to discuss useless matters. Feel free to not comment if its not to your liking.

[LEAPFROG8462]

The Immutable の投稿を引用：

Alright I'm about to blow your ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ MIND.

None of the dates were sexual or romantic, unless YOU CHOSE TO MAKE THEM THAT WAY.

Nobody told you to flirt with Papyrus. In fact, you only get ONE CHANCE to, on the very first turn of the fight. If you don't, you don't go on a date, you just hang out. Undyne is very explictly going to make you her BEST FRIEND. Alphys's date is just roleplay, even though she is in fact very bisexual, since she has a crush on both Undyne AND Asgore (AND the human AND you, the player. And Toriel??).

I know its not for sexual gain. But we are supposing that it is to use as evidence to determain the gender of Frisk. I know they're all just silly and meant to bond the player with the main characters. Dosent make for good discussion.

[LEAPFROG8462]

Michelozzo の投稿を引用：

After getting the hang out option with Papyrus, I can safely conclude that he is most definately just a skeleton looking for friends, and is not inviting anyone to the bone zone, regardless of their genitalia situation. He's just so wonderfully idiot savant about...well everything that he thinks dating is a usual way to get friends too.

As for the sans 'dates' implying some kind of affection, never gone out for lunch with a buddy before? Two people at a restaurant having a meal together =/= date. Plus he's far too chill to worry about romance methinks, he can't even take care of his pet rock for cryin' out loud!

You make a great point, I go for lunch with my bud IRL, dosent mean im gay. This is why i wasnt comfortable making any concrete conclusions about sans. Cuz to be honest that is probably the case where he is just being a good friend. BUT in the odd world that he is hitting on us, that would be evidence. Again i will say, i know these dates are totally for funzies, i get that. But i only think about these critically becaue in this odd world where everything has a meaning, it would be evidence of their sexual direction.

[LEAPFROG8462]

purripi 愛 の投稿を引用：

Oh my god who the hell cares, just play the game, what the hells the point of DISCUSSING genders of characters.

I care. Caring shows care for the game. I love this game, i want to know everything about it. If you dont care, i dont need to know about it. Go elsewhere. Thank you :I

[LEAPFROG8462]

LEAPFROG8462 の投稿を引用：

Fusion の投稿を引用：

Goats have intercourse to breed.
So why shouldn't anthromorphized goats have intercourse to breed?

It is not confirmed that Torial and Asgore are goat people. Though it strongly favored in that direction.

Correction when talking to the turtle merchant in the waterfall area he says they are goat people.

[Iido]

You know something odd I noticed, they're goat people, right? So why do they have paws, instead of hooves? One could argue it's so they'd be able to hold things (which would of course require opposable thumbs) but it really makes them look more like Mimigas than goats, to me anyway. :P Especially with those big floppy ears.

[JayKaye]

Fusion の投稿を引用：

The Immutable の投稿を引用：

Male and female are sexes, not genders. Unless you're a mutant you only get the two choices. And gender is just a bs social construct based on gender roles and expectations that in an ideal egalitarian world wouldn't even exist. But don't tell transexuals that, without discriminatory gender expectations they wouldn't exist either.

But no it's entirely player choice. You want to interpret Frisk as a trigender pyrofox, sure. Whatever. The game purposely does not give you any information that would contradict that, even going so far as to give you the purposely gendered items (manly bandana and tutu) at roughly the same time.

You're thinking of transgenders.
Transexuals are people that have undergone genetalia surgery.

And they do that because gender expectations lead them to believe that men and women are drastically different enough that you can have the "wrong" sex for your lifestyle.

[LEAPFROG8462]

Stanley (~IidoTheFox~) の投稿を引用：

You know something odd I noticed, they're goat people, right? So why do they have paws, instead of hooves? One could argue it's so they'd be able to hold things (which would of course require opposable thumbs) but it really makes them look more like Mimigas than goats, to me anyway. :P Especially with those big floppy ears.

They are intended to be anthropomorphic, which means they have human qualities. So yes goats have hooves, but they are allowed to have hands. And with the logic of "why no hooves" the same could be said about them not going "Baaa"

[Pizzarugi]

The Immutable の投稿を引用：

Fusion の投稿を引用：

You're thinking of transgenders.
Transexuals are people that have undergone genetalia surgery.

And they do that because gender expectations lead them to believe that men and women are drastically different enough that you can have the "wrong" sex for your lifestyle.

Sexual dimorphism is proof that men and women are drastically different. Science doesn't lie.

[Pizzarugi]

LEAPFROG8462 の投稿を引用：

Stanley (~IidoTheFox~) の投稿を引用：

You know something odd I noticed, they're goat people, right? So why do they have paws, instead of hooves? One could argue it's so they'd be able to hold things (which would of course require opposable thumbs) but it really makes them look more like Mimigas than goats, to me anyway. :P Especially with those big floppy ears.

They are intended to be anthropomorphic, which means they have human qualities. So yes goats have hooves, but they are allowed to have hands. And with the logic of "why no hooves" the same could be said about them not going "Baaa"

Just adding onto your comment.

Further proof that they're simply anthropomorphic can be seen from the dog sentries all around the snow region. Greater Dog has (albeit super muscular) hands to hold his spear, Lesser Dog has hands to hold his sword and shield, the Dogi also have humanoid hands in order to wield their massive axes. They all have humanoid feet as well.

[Pizzarugi]

Fusion の投稿を引用：

T Fur 2 Pizzarugi の投稿を引用：

Just adding onto your comment.

Further proof that they're simply anthropomorphic can be seen from the dog sentries all around the snow region. Greater Dog has (albeit super muscular) hands to hold his spear, Lesser Dog has hands to hold his sword and shield, the Dogi also have humanoid hands in order to wield their massive axes.

Greater dog actually doesn't have hands. He operates his suit by magic.

Right, forgot that bit. Toby pilots a suit of battle armor...

Still, there's the other examples.