Genocide Run is the "Prophecy" (SPOILERS.)

[ZombiBatz]

This is something that I only realized when watching someone play through Undertale. They're in Waterfall reading all the signs, When realized something quite interesting. "The Angel, Who's seen the surface, will come back and the Underground will go empty." Now, the biggest thing that caught my eye was "Will Come Back." Implying that whoever this Angel is, has seen both the Surface and the Underground Before. Frisk has never seen the Underground himself because any Humans that have gond down there have died, and Chara, while now a demon, has been in stasis up until Frisk begins his Genocide. So Who else could be this Angel of Death? Chara. Now I'm not saying Genocide run is Canon, but it's certainly looking like that's what the Prophecy fortold. Thoughts?

[Pizzarugi]

Hey, thanks for finding more evidence that defends my hypothesis which claims you are actually Chara.

To save you the hassle if you can't be bothered to read, my hypothesis covers the claim that you are Chara. Frisk, if going the pacifist route, is Chara trying to absolve his sins of the past by taking on a new name and identity.

I completely missed that sign, I might have to revisit it and add it as a point to my thread.

[Theawolf]

Saving, Loading, and Resetting are all canon. The Genocide run is canon alongside the other two endings. Interesting theory though. I feel like the Prophecy is intentionally vague.

Consider this: The first playthrough you do, you cannot get a True Pacifist ending. When you come back for your True Pacifist ending, you 'have seen the surface' and 'come back', and when you are done, the 'underground goes empty' except for a single flower.
The same is true of the Genocide ending however. most people don't do it as their first run, so they first clear the game and 'see the surface' then they come back and make the 'underground go empty' by murdering everyone.

The prophecy speaks of nobody who is actually in game. the 'Angel' in the prophecy is YOU as the player. Thoughts?

[Goust]

You are the angel either way. It is said that some believe the angel will bring death and some believe it is a savior. In both true pacifist and genocide you are fulfilling the prophesy.

[Basileus Basileon]

Chara is definitely the "angel" during the genocide run, but Asriel destroys the barrier himself in the mercy run, and his final form looks like an actual angel, so it may very well refer to both characters.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

I think the idea is that there are different interpretations of the prophecy... genocide run is the angel of death interpretation, and pacifist is the savior of the monsters interpretation. Keep in mind I have yet to finish the game yet myself.

[tikiman572]

Given the fact that this game deals with multiple timelines, it could very well be inferred that the Genocide Playthrough, the Neutral Playthrough, AND the Pacifist Playthrough, are all Canon. It's just that they each took place in different timelines. Which makes things somewhat scary because all it takes, really, for everyone (that being everyone across all timelines) to have a bad time is for just ONE timeline where Chara ends up waking up. Because if he awakens, then he's going to start going across all the timelines one by one and start destroying them all. All Chara needs is to win ONCE whereas for us? We gotta keep up that winning streak or we're all gonna be screwed!

If Toby Fox decides to continue with Undertale's story, I'd like to see him explore this sort of thing. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if each of our playthroughs of Undertale, to him, would be considered a new timeline and that by just one of us having done the Genocide route, it's given him the go ahead to create a sequel where we ALL feel the consequences of that one person who decided to give the proverbial devil the means to end everything.

[racknae]

Asriel is the angel in Pacifist.

Chara is the angel in Genocide.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by dedxenon:

Asriel is the angel in Pacifist.

Chara is the angel in Genocide.

Technically, you're the angel in both.

For Asriel to be the savior angel, he would've needed to fulfill the prophecy entirely on his own without any outside influence. You made Asriel take the souls of all your friends so he can recreate his original form, then you saved them all one by one before saving Asriel himself. Only then did he finally take the power of the human souls and all of the monsters in the underground to break the barrier.

For Chara to be the death angel, they would need to not be dead. Chara came back to life and then destroyed the world after you killed every monster underground and used your determination, EXP and LOVE to resurrect them.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by dedxenon:

Asriel is the angel in Pacifist.

Chara is the angel in Genocide.

Didn't it say the angel comes from the surface?

[racknae]

Originally posted by DarkLordWiggles:

Originally posted by dedxenon:

Asriel is the angel in Pacifist.

Chara is the angel in Genocide.

Didn't it say the angel comes from the surface?

I don't think that's explicitly stated. It says the angel has seen the surface.

[tikiman572]

Hey, something to think about here but... who or what even STARTED this prophecy in the first place? Perhaps a comforting story to ensure the denizens of the underground did not lose hope that simply spiraled out of control? Or perhaps something more, like someone or something influencing the past to bring about a desired future? After all, we DO know that Sans is capable of time traveling (he even has a picture of you in the secret lab behind his house that hasn't even been TAKEN yet) and then, of course, there is the ever mysterious W. D. Gaster.

Of course, this being the case, that someone or something was attempting to bring about a desired end through careful manipulation of the past, one must question why so much was left to us to get right instead of planning for every single possibility? I can only surmise that such a thing, even for W. D. Gaster, just isn't possible; that while a lot of things could be planned for, a certain amount of uncertainty would still be left in play that could very well cause the entire thing to go awry. More or less, if I'm right, then whoever it was that seeded the prophecy was doing their best attempt at a Batman Gambit.

This is, of course, if the prophecy being concocted by an outside party and then manipulated so that it becomes true, is even true. There's so much to this game that the truth is often very hard to find and in all honesty, I doubt we're gonna learn the truth behind this prophecy anytime soon.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by tikiman572:

Hey, something to think about here but... who or what even STARTED this prophecy in the first place? Perhaps a comforting story to ensure the denizens of the underground did not lose hope that simply spiraled out of control? Or perhaps something more, like someone or something influencing the past to bring about a desired future? After all, we DO know that Sans is capable of time traveling (he even has a picture of you in the secret lab behind his house that hasn't even been TAKEN yet) and then, of course, there is the ever mysterious W. D. Gaster.

Of course, this being the case, that someone or something was attempting to bring about a desired end through careful manipulation of the past, one must question why so much was left to us to get right instead of planning for every single possibility? I can only surmise that such a thing, even for W. D. Gaster, just isn't possible; that while a lot of things could be planned for, a certain amount of uncertainty would still be left in play that could very well cause the entire thing to go awry. More or less, if I'm right, then whoever it was that seeded the prophecy was doing their best attempt at a Batman Gambit.

This is, of course, if the prophecy being concocted by an outside party and then manipulated so that it becomes true, is even true. There's so much to this game that the truth is often very hard to find and in all honesty, I doubt we're gonna learn the truth behind this prophecy anytime soon.

From what I remember with the intro cinematic, the delta rune (that explains the prophecy) has been around before the monsters were even exiled. It could've been established they were going to be exiled before even being exiled, but then later freed (or destroyed).

[tikiman572]

If that's the case, then something HAD to have a general idea as to what was going to happen well before it happened. The mystery deepens...

[Iron]

The prophecy is actually about Asriel AND Chara. Both of them, or more specifically, one of them, is the angel. Either you do the pacifist route and Asriel destroys the barrier, then everyone goes onto the surface, leaving the undergound empty, OR you do genocide, Chara takes over and kills everyone, and this of course leaves the underground empty.

Notice how it says "empty" and not "they die" or "they leave". Its vague on purpose. The prophecy is fulfilled either way, but its up to YOU exactly how it comes to pass.

[Pizzarugi]

Originally posted by ☸GIVE ME THE: SPIDERS☸:

The prophecy is actually about Asriel AND Chara. Both of them, or more specifically, one of them, is the angel. Either you do the pacifist route and Asriel destroys the barrier, then everyone goes onto the surface, leaving the undergound empty, OR you do genocide, Chara takes over and kills everyone, and this of course leaves the underground empty.

Notice how it says "empty" and not "they die" or "they leave". Its vague on purpose. The prophecy is fulfilled either way, but its up to YOU exactly how it comes to pass.

Originally posted by T Fur 2 Pizzarugi:

Technically, you're the angel in both.

For Asriel to be the savior angel, he would've needed to fulfill the prophecy entirely on his own without any outside influence. You made Asriel take the souls of all your friends so he can recreate his original form, then you saved them all one by one before saving Asriel himself. Only then did he finally take the power of the human souls and all of the monsters in the underground to break the barrier.

For Chara to be the death angel, they would need to not be dead. Chara came back to life and then destroyed the world after you killed every monster underground and used your determination, EXP and LOVE to resurrect them.

It's quite possible Chara is the good and evil angel (depending on playthrough), if you base Chara on my hypothesis I linked in the first comment. If you don't, it's impossible.