What exactly is Chara? (spoilers)

[Breadfortress 2]

I know there's a lot of theories and rumors about Chara, but what has consistently been bothering me is the simple question of what makes Chara a demon. Chara was presumably the first fallen child (a human) and demons are typically considered to be monsters. You simply cannot be classified as both a human and a monster, so what the heck IS Chara? What makes a being both a human and a demon or what takes over a human's essense and replaces it with that of a monster? Apparently this question only led me to more questions.

I've asked myself this question over and over and the only answer I've come up with is the idea that Chara is a demon due to the fact that it lacks a soul and determination while still being a living human. The reason I see this possible is the idea of the player literally reincarnating this being simply by creating a character. Flowey has stated in the genocide route that he has called for Chara by name in sadness and desparation, yet in the end Chara kills Flowey and claims to have used the player's determination and soul to rise to power. Chara has stated it doesn't matter where or when its name is called, yet Flowey made it clear that only the player was powerful enough to be responsible for bringing Chara back into existance from beyond the grave.

All of this, however, begs another question that ties into Chara's existance: what is Frisk? Oddly enough, I believe that the answer to this lies in Chara's existance, so bear with me for a moment. When the player kills all of the monsters in a genocide run, Chara embodies all that is physically gained: HP, ATK, DEF, GOLD, EXP, LV. When you give it your soul, it says that it does not understand the player's "perverted" desire for recreating the world again and again to gain knowledge of every possibility. Thus, when the player goes on a pacifist run and gains nothing physically due to killing nothing, Chara is robbed not only of power but of its existance as the character that the player controls. It is then that Frisk is born as a new name that the player's character grants itself for such a pacifistic occasion.

When I thought of the question of "what makes Chara a demon" I did not expect to come up with my own theory. I want to hear whether people think it's a good one and I especially want to hear any altenative ones. Holy crap, I did not expect to be so invested in this.

[Pizzarugi]

I can't answer everything in the OP, but I have created a hypothesis on who you are and how you link to Chara. It might answer your question on who Frisk is, at the very least.

I believe Frisk is actually Chara, trying to absolve himself of his past misdeeds during the pacifist route. The Chara you meet in the genocide route is actually a haunting, a fragment of your past memory that haunts you for murdering everything that wanted to be friends with you. When he takes your soul in exchange for the ability to rebuild the world, it's actually figurative and is in fact robbing you of whatever kindness you may had for the world, thus reuniting you with your past and becoming whole and evil once again.

[Dread Arkive]

Copy - Paste from similar topic

Chara was the first fallen human, and it is also the inborn propensity for doing evil things that the other "Chara" got his name from. The Chara you sell your soul to doesn't really "exist" any more than the part of yourself that wants to help your friends, or donate to charity. He/She/It is a concept rather than a character in a literal sense. Of course, this is just my personal take/theory. The human Chara that met Asriel merged souls with him after he died, then after Asriel died he ceased to exist in terms of his human "self", leaving only traces of his evil in Asriel/Flowey. He isn't some ghost/demon that has been lurking in the Underground, waiting to "possess" you...you brought him there with you from the moment you were born.

[LNCR Steel]

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

I know there's a lot of theories and rumors about Chara, but what has consistently been bothering me is the simple question of what makes Chara a demon. Chara was presumably the first fallen child (a human) and demons are typically considered to be monsters. You simply cannot be classified as both a human and a monster, so what the heck IS Chara? What makes a being both a human and a demon or what takes over a human's essense and replaces it with that of a monster? Apparently this question only led me to more questions.

Chara isn't a monster, plainly and simply. Chara's the first human to have fallen into the Underground, as the previous posts said. Chara isn't really a 'demon', per se. They're just a human. But, there is a hint as to what they are as a concept.

Toby said on his Tumblr to name your file after you. Now, doesn't that sound funny?

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

I've asked myself this question over and over and the only answer I've come up with is the idea that Chara is a demon due to the fact that it lacks a soul and determination while still being a living human. The reason I see this possible is the idea of the player literally reincarnating this being simply by creating a character. Flowey has stated in the genocide route that he has called for Chara by name in sadness and desparation, yet in the end Chara kills Flowey and claims to have used the player's determination and soul to rise to power. Chara has stated it doesn't matter where or when its name is called, yet Flowey made it clear that only the player was powerful enough to be responsible for bringing Chara back into existance from beyond the grave.

Indeed, Frisk was the one who brought Chara back, though not from simply going down there. They were brought back for the purpose of power, the power that Frisk wanted, and the power that Chara wants.

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

All of this, however, begs another question that ties into Chara's existance: what is Frisk? Oddly enough, I believe that the answer to this lies in Chara's existance, so bear with me for a moment. When the player kills all of the monsters in a genocide run, Chara embodies all that is physically gained: HP, ATK, DEF, GOLD, EXP, LV. When you give it your soul, it says that it does not understand the player's "perverted" desire for recreating the world again and again to gain knowledge of every possibility. Thus, when the player goes on a pacifist run and gains nothing physically due to killing nothing, Chara is robbed not only of power but of its existance as the character that the player controls. It is then that Frisk is born as a new name that the player's character grants itself for such a pacifistic occasion.

I don't think it's that, but rather the name belonging to Chara, and Frisk simply being their own person. The possession only happens when you go on the Genocide route, with the Neutral route seeming like only a piece of Chara exists, but it's not a total possession. You aren't completely evil, you're simply making your way through the Underground on your own terms. You kill when needed, you spare when needed. Maybe you had to defend yourself, or didn't know how to get through. You aren't Chara, you're simply Frisk with a few sins crawling on their back.

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

When I thought of the question of "what makes Chara a demon" I did not expect to come up with my own theory. I want to hear whether people think it's a good one and I especially want to hear any altenative ones. Holy crap, I did not expect to be so invested in this.

And thus, we come to the end, and what Chara is... at least when I think about it. Put bluntly...

Chara is you. And you are Chara.

Toby asking people to name their files after themselves is symbolic of this identity and purpose. Chara isn't the one seeking power, you are. Chara isn't seeking to increase their stats, you are. The entire Genocide run is an RPG player's typical instinct of killing anything and everything in order to become strong. Chara is the player interacting with Frisk's world. Flowey was trying to call you back in order to continue with the plan of destroying humanity, but he becomes terrified by the prospect.

You are Chara. And you are a monster, in the eyes of every single monster in the Underground. Including Flowey.

You are terrifying.

You are evil.

You are the Angel of Death, told by prophecy to return and make the Underground empty. You, not Frisk, not a demon, not anything else, are the reason Asgore's kingdom essentially goes extinct.

From the very first Froggit, all the way up to Asgore, you kill and kill and kill merely for power, and to see what happens. And what does it matter to you?

You have a SAVE file. You can reset anytime you want.

But then there's Frisk, in a last ditch effort to rebel after scattering so much dust. They don't want to erase the world, even though you politely offered the choice.

And when they turn you down, you don't take it well. You do not appreciate rebellion in your video game... so you erase Frisk, along with the world, and the entire timeline. You return to your slumber, and wait for the next genocide.

Besides... why does it matter to you at all?

Undertale's just a game...

[Breadfortress 2]

Originally posted by Steel:

And when they turn you down, you don't take it well. You do not appreciate rebellion in your video game... so you erase Frisk, along with the world, and the entire timeline. You return to your slumber, and wait for the next genocide.

Besides... why does it matter to you at all?

Undertale's just a game...

I like the idea that Chara embodying the player's twisted intent and of the choice of erasing the world being asked of Frisk, who's nothing more than a possessed human pawn at that point. However, there's one major problem that I see with the idea of Chara actually being the player. Chara states that it cannot understand the reason that the player re-creates and destroys the world, which is the simple reason of wanting to see what would happen if you did it. In fact, Chara states this after a second genocide run, which further proves Chara's ignorance of the idea.

Now it could be that when Chara is saying these things, it is speaking of Frisk and not the player. However, Frisk is not someone with the power to reset things, nor is he someone with so much curiousity that he would throw himself into a second genocide run just to see what would happen without a having soul. That is something that the player would have Frisk do, yet Frisk himself would never choose to do that. Even if Frisk was possessed there would be no payoff for Chara, a being that cares not for knowing what happens if you do something different, to re-do a genocide.

[LNCR Steel]

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

Originally posted by Steel:

And when they turn you down, you don't take it well. You do not appreciate rebellion in your video game... so you erase Frisk, along with the world, and the entire timeline. You return to your slumber, and wait for the next genocide.

Besides... why does it matter to you at all?

Undertale's just a game...

I like the idea that Chara embodying the player's twisted intent and of the choice of erasing the world being asked of Frisk, who's nothing more than a possessed human pawn at that point. However, there's one major problem that I see with the idea of Chara actually being the player. Chara states that it cannot understand the reason that the player re-creates and destroys the world, which is the simple reason of wanting to see what would happen if you did it. In fact, Chara states this after a second genocide run, which further proves Chara's ignorance of the idea.

Now it could be that when Chara is saying these things, it is speaking of Frisk and not the player. However, Frisk is not someone with the power to reset things, nor is he someone with so much curiousity that he would throw himself into a second genocide run just to see what would happen without a having soul. That is something that the player would have Frisk do, yet Frisk himself would never choose to do that. Even if Frisk was possessed there would be no payoff for Chara, a being that cares not for knowing what happens if you do something different, to re-do a genocide.

Haven't done a genocide run myself, so I didn't know these bits. I always figured Chara was the analog of the player, but the fact that she wants to erase the current world and move on to the next, I figured that was implying that she wanted to destroy this timeline and move on to another, carrying on the genocide.

After all, if you have access to timelines, you have many more worlds to destroy. It still embodies the player's desire to become powerful. But, perhaps Frisk is still in there, twisted himself in Chara's desire for strength.

It's... honestly hard to say without asking Toby himself. I still say Chara embodies the player, but perhaps Frisk and Chara, together, represent the player. Chara represents their desire for power, while Frisk embodies their curiosity.

Chara not understanding why you want to destroy the world and recreate it, instead of just moving on, some little hint of Frisk there maybe wanting to turn back the clock and try things again, or not live with the guilt of murdering all those people.

Hmm... yeah. Yeah, I still say Chara embodies the player, but perhaps it's a fusion of ideas between Chara and Frisk that fully embodies the player?

[Breadfortress 2]

Originally posted by Steel:

It's... honestly hard to say without asking Toby himself. I still say Chara embodies the player, but perhaps Frisk and Chara, together, represent the player. Chara represents their desire for power, while Frisk embodies their curiosity.

Y'know, there's really something VERY interesting about this idea. The idea that Frisk embodies the player's curiousity and Chara embodies the player's drive for power. When I finished my first run, it was a pacifist run. Everyone lived happily ever after, the ending was wonderful, and I felt like I got what I wanted.

Then Flowey popped up...and reminded me of a single thing that threatened the world still: my own curiousity to reset and try a different path. Everything was good and yet I, the player, was still not sated. I went back and restarted everything with a twisted intent. I'll be honest here and admit that I looked up the genocide rather than doing it.

However, what happens in a genocide run leaves irreversable damage. You basically have to delete files in the game to get rid of it. Chara even comments saying "you think you are above consequences." For doing something good (like Frisk), the game leaves you with the simple, happy ending you wanted. Yet curiousity remains unsatisfied. For doing something bad (like Chara), the game leaves a permanent scar that forever reminds you of your actions. Yet curiousity is satisfied.

In the end, you can only be Frisk or Chara. The player's curiousity is what determines which one you truly are.

[LNCR Steel]

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

Originally posted by Steel:

It's... honestly hard to say without asking Toby himself. I still say Chara embodies the player, but perhaps Frisk and Chara, together, represent the player. Chara represents their desire for power, while Frisk embodies their curiosity.

Y'know, there's really something VERY interesting about this idea. The idea that Frisk embodies the player's curiousity and Chara embodies the player's drive for power. When I finished my first run, it was a pacifist run. Everyone lived happily ever after, the ending was wonderful, and I felt like I got what I wanted.

Then Flowey popped up...and reminded me of a single thing that threatened the world still: my own curiousity to reset and try a different path. Everything was good and yet I, the player, was still not sated. I went back and restarted everything with a twisted intent. I'll be honest here and admit that I looked up the genocide rather than doing it.

However, what happens in a genocide run leaves irreversable damage. You basically have to delete files in the game to get rid of it. Chara even comments saying "you think you are above consequences." For doing something good (like Frisk), the game leaves you with the simple, happy ending you wanted. Yet curiousity remains unsatisfied. For doing something bad (like Chara), the game leaves a permanent scar that forever reminds you of your actions. Yet curiousity is satisfied.

In the end, you can only be Frisk or Chara. The player's curiousity is what determines which one you truly are.

Mmhm. Curiosity is sometimes the greatest danger.

But I guess that 'needing to delete files' in order to undo the genocide ending, in itself, is possibly part of the narrative. Total, absolute obliteration of the timeline you killed everyone in.

A genuine Absolute Reset. I mean, it's still pretty annoying, but it leaves you with a question.

Is Chara really in control? Is Frisk in control? Are you? It's just a game, you can undo everything. You are God, and Frisk and Chara are under your control... right?

If you start adding meta to absolutely everything, it gets very hard to determine who exactly is in command during the story, of the game, and of the actions of Frisk and Chara, and yourself. Just whose agenda is being carried out? And who's along for the ride?

Chara and Frisk both exemplify curiosity of opposite intents, but it comes down to the player whether those curiosities are explored. And in the end, the player is the one who has all the power, and can enact a reset, if they don't like what they did.

If they don't like what Chara, or Frisk did. If they don't like what happened.

It's a beautiful narrative that even goes so far as to make you think about deleting files off your computer!

[Devin]

Originally posted by Breadfortress 2:

In the end, you can only be Frisk or Chara. The player's curiousity is what determines which one you truly are.

How did that saying go, curiosity killed the cat, but determination brought it back?

[Doggy Davis]

They're a goofy killer, both on and off the court.