Is the outside world really better? (SPOILERS)

[fish]

Okay, serious lore discussion time. In Undertale all of the monsters want Asgore to find the seventh human soul to destroy the barrier and bring them freedom. They want to have better lives, prosper and live in peace in the outside world. The thing is you and I live there and know it's far from perfect. It's most likely worse than behind the barrier. Living with us is how a lot of them got killed in the first place, probably out of discrimination. So this plan is flawed from the start.

The monsters have been sealed off for 1000 years or more. They know technology has improved since they use human devices, but they know nothing else about the world. All the information they have is outdated or lies from Alphys teaching anime as real human history, so the kingdom must think the world is much better than it really is.

Today the world is far more populated and there's much more crime because of that, and racial tensions are higher than ever. So if humans suddenly encounter an influx monsters who want to join our communities and do what we do, do you really think they'd be accepted and treated fairly? Probably not, at least not for a long time. A lot of people would be scared of them, especially since some look creepy. And then how could they defend themselves if one human child was too much for them?

We're told that humans are much more powerful than monsters. They lost the war and failed to kill any of them. Outside the barrier there are 7 billion of us, and inside the barrier there are probably only one or two thousand monsters if not less. Monsters magically reproduce and can't breed as fast as we do, and after a thousand years there's still not many of them.

If one human child can kill every monster inside the barrier, then why couldn't one racist human? Think about it. If just one discriminatory human, of which there are plenty, wanted to eradicate them then they easily could. And if you think EVERYONE would easily accept a bunch of monsters, give them equal rights and allow them to live peacefully then you overestimate us.

And if you ask me, living inside the barrier is perfectly fine. They're very advanced in technology despite their small numbers, and there's plenty of space, resources and different biomes for the monsters to live in. Especially if you pay attention to the backgrounds of the levels. Of course there's no pesky humans too!

I don't care if Frisk becomes the Ambassador. She's just a human child. The government or one adult is more powerful than her.

So what do you think about the points I've made, would it be best if the monsters stayed behind the barrier, at least until later? Could another war start where they're sealed off again or made extinct? I believe so. Leave a comment below sharing your thoughts.

[Michelozzo]

Thing is, I don't think the outside world they go to is the outside world you and I live in. I mean, obviously their world is 'Undertale' ours is 'Reality' for lacking a better term. Judging by some of the ending animations, it might infact be Eagleland aka the Setting of Earthbound. Which is pretty damn idllyc compared to our world, once you get rid of the pig nosed next door neighbour from hell and the mentally retarded god of destruction bent on killing us all. Which we have, as point of reference.

[Fore]

It's hard to tell. The most we can get is that all six children who found themselves who fell underground had a reason for climbing the mountain. The first child had a lot of hate for humanity. That at least tells us not all is nice and serene on the surface.

[Tembies]

Disregarding the state of the world, or how humans might react to a sudden influx of monsters: lock yourself in a cave for a while. Then extrapolate the feeling to however long monsters have been stuck under Ebott. To them, that little place is all they have. They know there is more out there but they can't reach out and live in it. The feeling of being trapped alone is more than enough to squelch much of the questions regarding how the humans might respond.

[dat_potatoe]

Applying aspects of the real world to an imaginary world doesn't really work.

Anyways, it does make me wonder if they all unanimously decided to go to the surface. I'd imagine a few monsters would prefer to just stay where they are (even the bunny kid at the Inn says he doesn't want to move), yet the game makes it seems like everyone decided to move, which doesn't make much sense to me.

As for the monsters being ignorant of the surface world, not entirely true. Toriel for example comments on how many of Alphys's human facts are just straight up wrong and asks you if you've been telling her anything.

Also Papyrus is driving a car and Toriel is running a school, so things can't be that bad...

lock yourself in a cave for a while

That's pretty much my life already.

Ahahah..aha....ahhhh....ehhh....oh....

[Iron]

That did strike me as one thing I could have said to Asgore.

"Look man, I know you want that barrier open, but let me tell you something. Humans are even more warlike and violent than they were before. The human race is a pack of starving wolves. With you gone, they started turning on each other. They have built weapons you cannot even imagine just to cow each other into submission. They have bombs that can level countries in a single blast, and in an endlessly spiraling arms race, they have built THOUSANDS of those bombs, among other horrifying things. You only exist because humans have forgotten you. If you remind them, you will be condemning everyone you are trying to help to a mass genocide, or worse. You don't want to go out of that barrier. I don't want to go out of that barrier. I'm only here to warn you before you make a huge mistake and get all of your people slaughtered like animals in a world you know nothing about. Could I be lying? Its possible. But tell me that everything I've said doesn't sound exactly like something humans would do. Are you going to be the one to risk it?"

[fish]

Even if I can't apply the real world to this one, it's established in the game that there was a war against monsters and many of them were killed. They were overpowered so greatly that not one human died. And using their magic (which they still might have) they were sealed off for a millenia. Who's to say that won't happen again? Have the humans learned from their foul ways and become peaceful beings? I find that very unlikely.

Frisk would have to do some crazy things as an ambassador to make this all work out. And even then, she's still just a child, which further hinders the chance of things going well.

And if things get from bad to worse, yeah...You probably wish you could walk back through that barrier now.

[Michelozzo]

Clearly though, as shown by true pacifist's ending, things *do* work out. Would there be bad days amongst the good? Probably, but that's life. You need to stay DETERMINED and shuffle through them too. While they might not literally have the nigh god like force of DETERMINATION actual human beings do, its pretty clear monsters have determination in the literal sense of the word - I'm sure they could do it.

[fish]

Originally posted by An Old Friend:

Disregarding the state of the world, or how humans might react to a sudden influx of monsters: lock yourself in a cave for a while.

It's not that small. Haven't you see the woods around Snowdin or the underground cities? The world inside the barrier is quite spacious and pretty, even if the sun doesn't shine. There's also a great diversity of land types close to eachother; Snow, water and lava which is perfect for all the different monsters there are.

[Neighborhood Caterpillar]

Regarding monsters who don't want to move: I think the more important thing to consider is the fact that before the barrier was broken, they didn't have the option of leaving the Underworld. They weren't free to pick whichever place suited them best and were essentially trapped.

[Iron]

Originally posted by Kiyoh:

Originally posted by An Old Friend:

Disregarding the state of the world, or how humans might react to a sudden influx of monsters: lock yourself in a cave for a while.

It's not that small. Haven't you see the woods around Snowdin? There's lots of untamed land there. The world inside the barrier is quite spacious and pretty, even if the sun don't shine. There's also a great diversity of land types close to eachother; Snow, water, caves and lava which is perfect for all the different monsters there are in a small area.

Wait. How are there trees, plants, rain, and snow if there is no sun or weather?

I always just assumed there were openings in the roof but the barrier covered them too making that a nonviable exit strategy.

[Ben]

I believe the narrative goes that Frisk and friends escape from Ebott time and time again, but Chara resets Frisk's journey until the improbable happens: the Genocidal Route. The Genocide Route only needs to happen once. Not even Chara really wants the underground to vanish forever. The real goal is to get Frisk's soul.

Why did Frisk go to Mount Ebott? Would've been suicidal, as Asriel implies.

So I don't think the future lasts long enough for Frisk to have to deal with those consequences. Chara does. And Chara doesn't care much for peace.

[Iron]

Originally posted by TH4NK YOU B3N:

I believe the narrative goes that Frisk and friends escape from Ebott time and time again, but Chara resets Frisk's journey until the improbable happens: the Genocidal Route. The Genocide Route only needs to happen once. Not even Chara really wants the underground to vanish forever. The real goal is to get Frisk's soul.

Why did Frisk go to Mount Ebott? Would've been suicidal, as Asriel implies.

So I don't think the future lasts long enough for Frisk to have to deal with those consequences. Chara does. And Chara doesn't care much for peace.

You know, things like this only bring a suspicion I have had for a long time bubbling to the surface.

We ARE Chara. Not we, the character. We, the PLAYER. WE ARE CHARA.

[fish]

Originally posted by TH4NK YOU B3N:

I believe the narrative goes that Frisk and friends escape from Ebott time and time again, but Chara resets Frisk's journey until the improbable happens: the Genocidal Route. The Genocide Route only needs to happen once. Not even Chara really wants the underground to vanish forever. The real goal is to get Frisk's soul.

Why did Frisk go to Mount Ebott? Would've been suicidal, as Asriel implies.

So I don't think the future lasts long enough for Frisk to have to deal with those consequences. Chara does. And Chara doesn't care much for peace.

Revived Chara is a manifestation of your evil desires. If you don't reset your game after a Perfect Pacifist then she loses.

I don't think Frisk went to Mount Ebott, Chara did. Unless I'm mistaken, Frisk is Chara reincarnated. A clean slate. Look at the mummy wrappings in your coffin. Who resurrected her? Flowey maybe, since you wake up in the garden he came from and he immediately starts messing with you. You're old friends after all, and he wants someone to play with.

I'm no expert though so it'd be nice to get a solid explanation on this.

[Nesstrodamus]

As far as the whole strength of monsters versus humans goes, it seems a little inconsistent sometimes. I mean, first there's a war in which no human is killed at all, yet between Chara and Frisk, six humans are killed all seemingly without incident. No one in the game so much as mentions past deaths or problems brought on by the unfortunate six. At least not that I can remeber; I could be wrong.

As for what's being discussed about the surface...Well, look at the true pacifist ending.

Papyrus is able to acquire both a car and a license to drive it. Same with Sans and his...I wanna say scooter? Seems like they were able to co-exist and go through the game universe's legal system without any problems.

Undyne and Alphys, as well as two of the dogs and Onionsan are hanging out on the beach. Again, without incident.

Mettaton, Napstablook and Shyden were able to establish a show on the surface.

Asgore and Toriel both work at a school that has apparently accepted them both, along with the Monster Kid.

And either Toriel is able to go through the necessary channels to get a house to live with Frisk in, or the entire group is able to get situated long enough for all of them to regroup after scattering and get a group photo.

At the very least, all of these things imply the passage of time, with no deaths and no catastrophes seeming to take place during the ending sequences. Not saying it's definite, but that's how it looked to me.


As for Frisk...I can't say for sure myself, but personally I don't think they are directly connected to Chara in terms of reincarnation or anything. Otherwise the "I have places to go" option in the true ending doesn't make as much sense. Toriel even says something to the effect of, "Oh, so you have people waiting for you" or something along those lines. I'm not positive, and I could be wrong, but that's what I can remember for the moment.

[fish]

Originally posted by Nesstrodamus:

As far as the whole strength of monsters versus humans goes, it seems a little inconsistent sometimes. I mean, first there's a war in which no human is killed at all, yet between Chara and Frisk, six humans are killed all seemingly without incident. No one in the game so much as mentions past deaths or problems brought on by the unfortunate six. At least not that I can remeber; I could be wrong.

Those were the souls of children, am I right? Toriel said children had passed through her house before. I doubt any kids fought in the war, but trained warriors did.

Also, Asgore slew them personally and he is the most powerful monster of all.