Leitmotifs: Pure Genius or Plain Laziness?

[Hatsune Miku]

If one would listen to the majority of Undertale's soundtrack, it would most likely sound like another piece in the OST. Some examples of this would be Ruins and Spear of Justice, DogSong and Enemy Approaching, Shop and the Date songs (Date Start! and Date Tense!) and so forth. Apparently, this is called a leitmotif.

Now, the real question begins. Do you guys think that this is a work of a pure unadulterated genius that has the advanced musical aura crawling in his mind, or a guy who only has about 10 minutes to work on the soundtrack every day and just remixes one soundtrack to another for the benefit of no effort?

Remember, opinions are allowed. And in case of clashing ideologies, always agree to disagree!

Extra note: If there are more leitmotifs around that I don't know about, do tell me.

[smithney]

Imo leitmotifs are great if you want to thematically connect areas with events and characters in a way that a complex experience feels whole. They can serve as foreshadowing hints or they can bring up memories. Either way a well used leitmotif can do more than serve as a thematic backdrop.

Concerning Undertale, I don't think Fox is as good of a musician as he is a game creator, but he did a very good job with music in this title.

[Zunnoab #931]

Laziness? It's a technique and has nothing to do with laziness. The fact that there are so many different ones is impressive.

Go look at Super Mario World for an example of one dominating almost the entire soundtrack.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originally posted by Zunnoab #931:

Laziness? It's a technique and has nothing to do with laziness. The fact that there are so many different ones is impressive.

Go look at Super Mario World for an example of one dominating almost the entire soundtrack.

As good as SMW was (and is), it has been repeatedly stated that it was rushed to hell. Perhaps that's why the soundtrack is full of leitmotifs?

Have to admit, SMW is the only main Mario game that I've fully enjoyed as a kid and today.

Though I would like to point out that I am NOT holding to any ground whatsoever. I am just enquiring.

[Fox]

Personally, I think the liefmotifs were done very well, in fact I didn't notice most of them until they were pointed out to me, so I think this game does a very good job of, like an above poster said, using liefmotifs to connect ideas. The Mother games use a lot of liefmotifs so that's probably where Toby Fox got inspiration from.

[Deadbubble]

I don't mind at all. They all sound unique, and at times, hard to tell that they're the same song. The song in Waterfall, for instance, is Undyne's theme, slowed down.

[ZestyLimez]

Honestly, I never really noticed the similarities until looking up songs and the secrets associzted with them. In retrospect, it feels a little cheaty, but even now each of the songs that play sound unique enough for me.

What I don't understand is how the Waterfall theme slowed down is Undyne's theme. I've listened to it, but I can't for the life of me pick out the similar notes. I have a good music background, too, so mabye I'm just not noticing the patterns.

[Hatsune Miku]

Originally posted by ZestyLimez:

Honestly, I never really noticed the similarities until looking up songs and the secrets associzted with them. In retrospect, it feels a little cheaty, but even now each of the songs that play sound unique enough for me.

What I don't understand is how the Waterfall theme slowed down is Undyne's theme. I've listened to it, but I can't for the life of me pick out the similar notes. I have a good music background, too, so mabye I'm just not noticing the patterns.

Here you go:
https://youtu.be/7ifTrPws0Dc

[Zunnoab #931]

Originally posted by The British Toaster:

Originally posted by Zunnoab #931:

Laziness? It's a technique and has nothing to do with laziness. The fact that there are so many different ones is impressive.

Go look at Super Mario World for an example of one dominating almost the entire soundtrack.

As good as SMW was (and is), it has been repeatedly stated that it was rushed to hell. Perhaps that's why the soundtrack is full of leitmotifs?

Have to admit, SMW is the only main Mario game that I've fully enjoyed as a kid and today.

Though I would like to point out that I am NOT holding to any ground whatsoever. I am just enquiring.

SMW is actually my favorite 2D Mario. I had no idea it was rushed. As I said it's a technique and has nothing to do with laziness though. I actually like SMW's music (especially the castles). It's more that almost the entire SMW soundtrack revolves around a single Leitmotif whereas Undertale has a bunch. I'm still noticing some too. It's not like it's the exact same song repeated. It most often sounds extremely different.

I actually love noticing them later. For example, Final Fantasy VI's main battle theme is a version of the Empire's anthem... something I didn't notice until I played through the game over 4-5 times!

[🎧🎶-Kamyarm007-🎶🎧]

I say it basically both, that feels like it could potiently balance out. On one side if you didn't notice it, and only notice it after playing and someone tell you about it, it would be quite an interesting experience.

On the other hand, it's nothing more just a remake with a different tempo/tune/etc, and if someone just finds it too repetive and not very creative it can be a pretty lazy musical design choice.

[Valmar]

I find it quite creative. For instance, ASGORE. It contains aspects of Bergentrückung, Heartache and Determination to produce a deep song that says a lot all on its own.

Or Finale, which contains aspects of His Theme.

Or Hopes and Dreams, which contains the leitmotifs of His Theme, Your Best Friend, and some others, to produce an epic song.

Lots of nostalgia fuel... which is quite genius. Taking a particular theme, and remixing it to create certain atmospheres.

Like Oh! One True Love which plays during that amusing scene with Mettaton after Muffet spares you. For the Fans is a slowed down version that presents a sad, almost reminiscent atmosphere...

So... pure genius when executed well, and sheer laziness when it just falls flat. Toby certainly achieved the former, in my opinion! ;)

[puddel90]

If it was "lazy design," then it had been done creatively.
A few tracks, altered spinoffs, and proper placement can make memorable scenes. A fact that remains forgotten by AAA companies.

[Sneaky]

I really think the leitmotifs are genius.

[Strider VM]

Genius when done right. Lazy when done wrong.

A good leitmotif can put a relationship between certain areas and characters.

A bad leitmotif is increasing song counts for the sake of it.