Confused

[DodgetheStorm]

If all humans have the power to save and load data, than how are human souls absorbed? For example, in the battle against asgore if you die you load a save point and battle him again. I don't understand how he could've gotten the other souls.

[CyperAleksi]

Lots of speculation about it. A few people point to a certain "demon" that shall-not-be-named as the reason.

[Soleil]

Flowey: At any point, I could have left this world continue on without me. But as long as I was determined to live… I could go back.

http://imgur.com/a/uUAmp

[Strider VM]

It's not directly said that humans have the power automatically. It's Determination.

This means a human could actually have or not have enough determination to be able to save/load.

Well since there are 6 earlier humans, I'll just assume that either they didn't have enough determination to have the powers or they gave up midway, ie they lost determination.

[DodgetheStorm]

That makes sense, so the 6 other humans just gave up?

[Soleil]

Originally posted by StriderVM:

It's not directly said that humans have the power automatically. It's Determination.

This means a human could actually have or not have enough determination to be able to save/load.

Well since there are 6 earlier humans, I'll just assume that either they didn't have enough determination to have the powers or they gave up midway, ie they lost determination.

Toriel implies during the Cinnamon/Butterscotch phone call that previous humans were able to SAVE. She retained déjà vu memories. (0:31).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aWtKPbSLPo&t=31

True Lab Entry #5 implies that humans in general are extremely determined, which gives them their power to change fate (or SAVE/LOAD).

* ENTRY NUMBER 5
* I’ve done it.
* Using the blueprints, I’ve extracted it from the human SOULs.
* I believe this is what gives their SOULs the strength to persist after death.
* The will to keep living…
* The resolve to change fate.
* Let’s call this power…
* “Determination.”

Sans will even comment (“shouldn’t you SAVE?”) if you get through the whole game without SAVEing (you also need to un-equip your starting equipment and eat food to prevent alternative dialogue). Like he's expecting that the Player would have this power.

Flowey was injected with human Determination, which gave them the ability to SAVE/LOAD. Not specifically with Red Soul humans, just other-colored human SOULs.

[Strider VM]

Perhaps, or they didn't have enough determination in the beginning, marking their first mistake as their last one as well.

If every human that falls has the power to save/load. Then how they were defeated in the first place? Same question as the topic starter actually. =P

[Soleil]

Originally posted by StriderVM:

Perhaps, or they didn't have enough determination in the beginning, marking their first mistake as their last one as well.

If every human that falls has the power to save/load. Then how they were defeated in the first place? Same question as the topic starter actually. =P

None of the humans were determined enough. They gave up. In fact, Frisk isn't very determined, either. **They only make it through the game with the Player's guidance.** Like Flowey said, if he wasn't determined, he would have not been able to reach his SAVE file. During the Asriel Dreemurr fight, you're unable to reach your SAVE file due to your lack of Determination.

This may seem like completely unrelated stuff, but bear with me. It'll explain why it's important that Frisk has the Player to guide them through the Underground.

Determination is linked very deeply with stats. It's implied many times that Determination = SOUL power.

Toriel and Asgore's stats are 80 ATK and 80 DEF when you Check them. They are so powerful because they are Boss Monsters. Boss Monsters have SOULs that are more powerful than normal monsters. It’s hinted ingame itself that Determination is a source of SOUL power.

Gerson: Oh. Right. ASGORE. He’s a real interesting type of monster. The strongest type of all. We call ’em Boss Monsters. When they have an offspring, the SOUL power of the parents flows into the child… Causing the child to grow as the parents age.

* Indeed, a human cannot take a monster’s SOUL.
* When a monster dies, its SOUL disappears.
* And an incredible power would be needed to take the SOUL of a living monster.
* There is only one exception.
* The SOUL of a special species of monster called a “Boss Monster.”
* A Boss Monster’s SOUL is strong enough to persist after death…
* If only for a few moments.

This detail is very important. Because normally, only human SOULs persist. Human SOULs persist after death specifically due to their high levels of Determination. Monsters have very low levels of Determination, so their SOULs immediately disappear upon death. This means that Boss Monsters are filled with an abnormal amount of innate Determination that allows their Boss Monster SOULs to persist for a few moments after death.

There are more hints that Determination = SOUL power. When you read Lab Entry 5, Alphys states that Determination is the source of a human's strength. Also,
* Humans are unbelievably strong.
* It would take the SOUL of nearly every monster…
* … just to equal the power of a single human SOUL.

There is only 1 other monster who has stats higher than Asgore and Toriel. And the reason is because she is fueled by her innate determination.
UNDYNE THE UNDYING 99ATK 99DEF
Heroine reformed by her own DETERMINATION to save Earth.

Frisk/Chara's stats at LV. 1 are 0 ATK and 0 DEF. This means that they aren't very determined. They may have come to the Underground for a sadder reason.

Asriel: Hey. Let me ask you a question. Frisk… Why did you come here? Everyone knows the legend, right…? “Travellers who climb Mt. Ebott are said to disappear.” Frisk. Why would you ever climb a mountain like that? Was it foolishness? Was it fate? Or was it… Because you…? Well. Only you know the answer, don’t you…?

Those who do climb the mountain may be climbing the mountain because they want to disappear. So, Frisk isn’t really “determined” either. They rarely move of their own accord, only on the Player’s behalf. It's only through the Player's Determination that Frisk is able to move at all. If the Player never inputs anything, Frisk would just sleep on the patch of golden flowers at the edge of the Ruin forever. It’s also the Player that awakens Chara within Frisk by inputting Chara’s name. This is “injecting Determination” to revive Chara.

Chara: Thank you. Your power awakened me from death. My “human soul.” My “determination.” They were not mine, but YOURS. At first, I was so confused. Our plan had failed, hadn’t it? Why was I brought back to life? You. With your guidance. I realized the purpose of my reincarnation.
Chara: “Chara.” The demon that comes when people call its name.

It’s the Player’s Determination that drives Frisk forward through the game. The other humans, once they lost their will to live, their Determination, they lost their ability to SAVE/LOAD.

[Bread]

I thought ut was your sould determination, rather than its humanity that gave it its ability to load and create save points

[Soleil]

Originally posted by ceiling yeti:

I thought ut was your sould determination, rather than its humanity that gave it its ability to load and create save points

“This is a SAVE point. It’s the manifestation of your own DETERMINATION.”
http://i.imgur.com/wxo6Y0S.png

[DodgetheStorm]

That was the perfect answer, thank you :D