Undyne called me a MURDERER!

[Steckie]

I was going for Pacifist, but Undyne hates my guts. I accidentally killed Toriel but I hadn't known at the time that I could spare her. I try to spare a monster, but it won't let me. I try to flee, but it won't let me. I try to act, but it gets mad. I try to purposely miss, and I end up killing them anyway. Now Undyne wants to kick my butt. I wanna Reset my game, but I'm afraid Flowey will know. I wanna continue THIS run, but I'm afraid Sans will wanna kick my butt, too! WTF I need help. I didn't mean to kill anyone! What do I do?

[Mother of Exiles]

Originally posted by Fusion:

Originally posted by //The Glorious Captain:

//If you read that, why didn't you read anything after it? Makes your comment very moronic for repeating something.

//I don't know what you mean, thanks for randomly insulting me though. :conwayheadscratch:

Originally posted by //The Glorious Captain:

Originally posted by Steckie:

//Just playing along. #LARP

//Go finish the story, then come back. Look at the joke, and see if you get it then. I accidently made a VERY minor spoiler.

[MissCassidy]

Originally posted by Steckie:

I was going for Pacifist, but Undyne hates my guts. I accidentally killed Toriel but I hadn't known at the time that I could spare her. I try to spare a monster, but it won't let me. I try to flee, but it won't let me. I try to act, but it gets mad. I try to purposely miss, and I end up killing them anyway. Now Undyne wants to kick my butt. I wanna Reset my game, but I'm afraid Flowey will know. I wanna continue THIS run, but I'm afraid Sans will wanna kick my butt, too! WTF I need help. I didn't mean to kill anyone! What do I do?

You killed a monster.

WHAT DO YOU ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ EXPECT?!

[Madi]

My question is, how does Undyne know you killed anyone in the Ruins anyways? People begin stalking you after you leave the Ruins (immediate camera in the bushes from Alphys, Flowey is still tunneling after you, Sans shows up), so even then no one would know unless Flowey told them. I know it's kinda hinted at that Flowey talked to Papyrus a lot, but wouldn't Papyrus have said something if he figured out you killed someone? He still doesn't think you're a murderer in neutral as far as I know. Except for Asgore. Everyone thinks you killed him I guess, and telling them it was a flower might get you sent to an insane asylum. So I think this is proof that Toriel actually is Undyne.

[ditt_25]

Originally posted by Clone:

My question is, how does Undyne know you killed anyone in the Ruins anyways? People begin stalking you after you leave the Ruins (immediate camera in the bushes from Alphys, Flowey is still tunneling after you, Sans shows up), so even then no one would know unless Flowey told them. I know it's kinda hinted at that Flowey talked to Papyrus a lot, but wouldn't Papyrus have said something if he figured out you killed someone? He still doesn't think you're a murderer in neutral as far as I know. Except for Asgore. Everyone thinks you killed him I guess, and telling them it was a flower might get you sent to an insane asylum. So I think this is proof that Toriel actually is Undyne.

More "evidence" towards the Undyne = Toriel theory (I don't believe the theory, though #1 is surprisingly very true)

1]Compare the music of Ruins compared to the music used primarily throughout Waterfall. Actually most of the music with thr Ruins motifs are actually used in Waterfall or Undyne related stuff instead of Toriel related stuff. It's just that it gets associated with Toriel since that's when it first shows up.

2]Toriel wants to be a teacher. But who gets to actually be the teacher in the neutral end? Undyne. And don't say Undyne shouting for Toriel "proves" anything. She could just have Multiple Personality Disorder (Dissociative Identity Disorder) and everyone else just plays along with it to either keep her happy or keep themelsves safe. Or maybe smething REALLY crazy is going on (see part 4).

3]Both are the very few monsters with an unshared Mercy mechanic. The others are still strongly ACT centric (MTT's ratings and getting Migosp some alone time). The other two that don't use ACT are beating up until a fight/mercy prompt appears (shared between Asgore and Flowey) .

Meaning that MERCY without ACT is, in a way, exclusive to the Dreemurr family and Undyne (techncially Papyrus and Muffet refute this, as both of them share a total number of turns used and Papyrus has the lose three times unique mechanic).

OK, time to have some fun with it. This part 4... is pretty much terrible fake fanfic territory after the first sentince, and I do NOT believe this explanation to be the truth.

4]The big hole in the theory is how Undyne and Toriel BOTH show up, even to the human, during the reunion before the final boss in Pacifist. I suppose you could say Undyne is just a magical projection (see hologram) created by Toriel's magic. Or that the human is already crazy, but crazy human is too easy of an out, so let's roll with hologram.

But wait... wouldn't that mean Toriel has been outisde the Ruins repeatedly? Yep. And it's all been to secretly undermine everyone's efforts to kill humans with misinformation in an effort to protect the humans. Ever notice how most civilians don't even recognize that you are a human? And isn't it weird how every member accepted into the Snowdin division of the Royal Guard is one who can be deafeated in a single action (Stick)? Yep. She decides who is accepted into the guard, so she chose the easiest (and most adorable, so you don't want to kill them) ones she could find. And maybe as a way to make sure #2 Nose Nuzzle Champs '98 don't befall the same fate as the #1 champs.

But wait! What about being trained by Asgore? A story which was never corrobarated by anyone oustide Undyne herself. And what about Gerson's tales? You mean the one monster who is vocally disappointed in Asgore's plan? He's in cahoots with her, silly. but Sans! and the door! Because, you know, Sans is lazy and sleeping on the job and Undyne/Toriel would know which station he'd be working and at what time, so she could schedule her arrival and deperatures to avoid him and still get to the door in time.

Undyne being Toriel would explain how Toriel got to Asgore so early in Pacifist despite never showing up in neutral. Maybe in neutral she became disgusted with your actions (or your pacifist run inspired her to try saving Asgore), so that's why she doesn't interfere in neutral. But since she's Undyne, she'd already be partway there either way and was planning to go there anyway. As she'd be going that way to stop you and Asgore from fighting while the human and Alphys were at the lab, Papyrus fell behind due to jogging, and everyone else had yet to get called.

Even if the hologram explanation is going to far (everything outside of pre-Asriel reunion could be physically the same person), the post-boss existence of both in the eyes of the human is an easy handwave since ALL the monsters should have lost their body (per True Lab info) when their souls got taken. So, during the recreation, it wouldn't be that hard to, either intentionally or accidentally, give both personalities their own, seperate bodies since there were so many other bodies returned during that time.

Of course, if that last paragraph is the case, it's more of an Undyne WAS Toriel theory than an Undyne IS Toriel theory. But semantics schemantics.

[Steckie]

Im done. I'm just done. Please post something relevant or start your OWN discussion. Besides, I already defeated Undyne. Seriously--I'm done.

[Blikk]

Reset.