Theory about Flowey (Spoilers, duh!)

[The Bored Chairman]

After playing through the game a few times, I've always had a nagging feeling about Flowey and how he just didn't fit the mold. I noticed a few things about his character that seemed out of place with the rest of his whole arc and have come to a conclusion.

Flowey isn't a souless creature, but rather, both Chara and Asriel's souls.

And the bad news? Chara's in the driver's seat.

Think about it: How does something exist without a soul? How is Flowey so powerful? Souls are literally the definition of power in the game. So how does a creature without a Soul have the power to reset timelines and how does he remember your saves/resets?

Flowey has proven time and again that he is the most powerful creature in the game, even stronger than Sans (though the latter has caused his share of resets). He's very clever, manipulating the whole of the underground (except for Napstablook) into gathering together so he can steal ALL their souls for himself. He even manipulates the player into resetting the timeline so he can have another chance at defeating you. He promises you a "good ending" in the hopes of defeating you again (he explicitly mentions this while fighting his "True Form"). Even after you've finished the Pacifist Playthrough, who shows up when you turn the game back on? Flowey. He even states that you'll need to wipe his memory in order to restart the game.

This is a lie. He never forgets. He even states "You've probably heard this a million times" to bait the hook. To get another chance at defeating you. He never stops trying to win, even after his defeat.

And the reason for that? Because Chara wants to escape. When you first land in the underground, the first person you meet? Flowey. He introduces you to LOVE and EXP. Chara then states at the end of the Genocide playthrough that every time you gain LOVE, that was him.

So my theory is that Chara transferred a part of his soul into Frisk when they first meet. As Frisk travels through the game, he transfers more of himself into Frisk.

When you meet Flowey in Asgore's house, he finally feels something. Fear. Why is that? Because Chara is leaving his body, giving Asriel's soul control of Flowey. When is the only other time Flowey feels emotion? When he's in his true form, after you've SAVED him. Saved him from what though? You saved him from Chara.

And who is the last monster to die before you meet Chara? Flowey. You hit LVL 20 after defeating Sans. But you don't gain any EXP or LOVE from killing Asgore and Flowey. That's because all that was left was to free Chara's Soul from Flowey's body.

If you reset after killing Sans, he even states "We were so close to REAL victory." Keep in mind, this is after Flowey begs you not to kill him. Wouldn't he be relieved instead? No because Chara is once again in control.

What do you guys think?

[AIphyy]

He's alive because Alphys injected the flower with "Determination"
He's more powerful than Sans because he snagged the six souls from Asgore after you've weakened him.

[T'ny]

I wouldn't be talking to Chara if I am Chara. Chara's soul and My true form's soul combined to make me all powerful. But when Asriel died, his essence dust scattered over the King's garden. Alphys then injected Determination into the first Flower in the garden which made the Flower a Vessel and Asriel's essence (Not Soul) became one with the Soulless Flower and thus.
Your Best Friend Flowey was awakened. At first I tried to be nice but I got bored and started killing but wouldn't anyone. Now as for Asriel Dreemurr, I absorbed the Human Souls and Monster Souls to become all powerful. Chara was the Human and Asriel was the Monster. Chara is dead and is buried in the Ruins. Chara was resurrected because of Frisk's Determination.

[IllegalTimeTravel]

Originally posted by Flowey:

I wouldn't be talking to Chara if I am Chara. Chara's soul and My true form's soul combined to make me all powerful. But when Asriel died, his essence dust scattered over the King's garden. Alphys then injected Determination into the first Flower in the garden which made the Flower a Vessel and Asriel's essence (Not Soul) became one with the Soulless Flower and thus.
Your Best Friend Flowey was awakened. At first I tried to be nice but I got bored and started killing but wouldn't anyone. Now as for Asriel Dreemurr, I absorbed the Human Souls and Monster Souls to become all powerful. Chara was the Human and Asriel was the Monster. Chara is dead and is buried in the Ruins. Chara was resurrected because of Frisk's Determination.

TL;DR

[T'ny]

Originally posted by biocooper91:

Originally posted by Flowey:

I wouldn't be talking to Chara if I am Chara. Chara's soul and My true form's soul combined to make me all powerful. But when Asriel died, his essence dust scattered over the King's garden. Alphys then injected Determination into the first Flower in the garden which made the Flower a Vessel and Asriel's essence (Not Soul) became one with the Soulless Flower and thus.
Your Best Friend Flowey was awakened. At first I tried to be nice but I got bored and started killing but wouldn't anyone. Now as for Asriel Dreemurr, I absorbed the Human Souls and Monster Souls to become all powerful. Chara was the Human and Asriel was the Monster. Chara is dead and is buried in the Ruins. Chara was resurrected because of Frisk's Determination.

TL;DR

I am the essence of Asriel in a Flower and became a psychopath because I got bored. And I found a Human Soul to take.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Alphysss:

He's alive because Alphys injected the flower with "Determination"
He's more powerful than Sans because he snagged the six souls from Asgore after you've weakened him.

Flowey actually kills Sans several times, he mentions this when talking about resetting.

Flowey is actually stronger than Sans without the six other souls. He absorbs those souls strictly to kill you.

[T'ny]

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

Originally posted by Alphysss:

He's alive because Alphys injected the flower with "Determination"
He's more powerful than Sans because he snagged the six souls from Asgore after you've weakened him.

Flowey actually kills Sans several times, he mentions this when talking about resetting.

Flowey is actually stronger than Sans without the six other souls. He absorbs those souls strictly to kill you.

Yeah I'm actually more powerful than I appear. It's ironic that the thing you got killed by is the most innocent thing imaginable. Although I regret it now.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by Flowey:

I wouldn't be talking to Chara if I am Chara.

I had to put a lot of thought into this one because this is a very valid point. So I thought how this could relate to my theory.

The answer I found was pretty horrifying. He's adressing you (the player) as Chara, not because he (Asriel) believes you to BE Chara, but instead, he is stating his intent.

When you complete the Genocide run, Chara asks for your soul in return for bringing the world back. Essentially, he takes over Frisk (which is how he "wins"). He becomes more powerful than the player and proves it by forever ruining the Pacifist endings.

So when Flowey/Asriel (not Asriel's soul) is speaking to the player, he is referring to them as Chara BECAUSE HE WANTS YOUR BODY AND SOUL.

Remember that Flowey is a master manipulator. He's trying to hide the fact that he is both Chara and Asriel.

And when does "Asriel" realize you aren't Chara?

After you SAVE him. When Asriel regains control.

[gabbermac]

if you heard the part where the monsters talk about asriel dieing by getting beat up by humans when taking charas body by the flowers she loved and her body scattered into peices on the flowers in asgore's castle in the underground when she returned?

well i think that sense asriel was so powerful with chara's soul, asriel was still able to live even without a soul in the loss of emotions and being a flower because she died in the flower patch

so flowey is basicly asriels consiousness and asriel knows that he is still alive
EDIT: Asriel may not know all, as in genocide, flowey said that he called for Toriel and Asgore saying: Mommy, Daddy! so its possible that Asriels memory was erased


Another theory is that asriel got scattered between time and space (like gaster) and had different versions of him, one includes the strongest version which would be flowey, once flowey absorbed all the monster souls, asriels peices reformed and asriel became to person he was befor, and it was thanks to flowey for getting the souls in the first place.

Also another thing to notice is that when asriel transforms befor you enter a battle with him, notice at the end asriel becomes normal as if Frisk "killed" flowey and freed asriel regaining her thoughts but asriel needed flowey's power in order to stay child form so she was able to set everything right in her remaining time befor her remains became a flower sort of like how asriel's "peice" became flowey.

The reason why i think that theory 2 is more correct is that sans, flowey, Frisk and chara know about the timelines which means that powerful monsters is able to see timelines and alternate universes even though frisk is human and chara is... whatever... but the possibility that asriel had multipul parts is possible due to time traveling stuff is possible in undertale univserse

[Professional Gator Hugger]

There's some important information to remember here. We have to keep in mind what Asriel tells us if we go back to the Ruins after beating him. When Asriel originally absorbed Chara's soul as described just before the Judgement Hall, he had to fight Chara in order to stop him from using their shared power to annihilate the village. When Asriel dies Chara's soul goes with him. So what does that mean?

I don't exactly know. To be honest Flowey's backstory seems a bit like a plot hole. How can he both a soulless flower and the reanimation of Asriel? How does injecting a flower with determination somehow cause it to be possessed by the soul-not-soul of Asriel? And how does this transfer happen if Flowey is supposedly soulless?

The only thing I can guess is that Alphys used a flower which was covered in the dust of Asriel or had absorbed said dust. When the flower was reanimated it brought back a fragment of Asriel based on the dust he left behind. Since monster souls (even Boss Monster souls) disappear after a while it was only able to animate some small remnant of Asriel which allowed him to keep his memories (but not his soul). But then what happened to Chara?

We know for certain that Chara's soul is not inside Flowey. Had that been the case Flowey would have had seven human souls instead of six at the end and he would have become God. But then how would Flowey have developed the ability to access save files and perform resets? Would a shot of determination from Alphys alone be enough to grant this ability? Had that been the case the Amalgamates (and posssibly Undyne in a genocide run) would have also had this ability.

The only way for Flowey to remain in line with the descriptions and information given in the story would require that some remnant of Chara have been slipped into the dust which was absorbed by the flower. It could be said since Asriel had absorbed Chara's soul that the power Chara possessed became mainfest in Asriel's body. It would certainly be in the line with the dualism of Undertale, where humans have strong souls and monsters have strong bodies.

[unnnnggg]

HOW DARE YOU SAY THAT ABOUT GOAT-BRO!!!

[Jorclai]

Flowey is able to reset timelines and is a badass flower.

[The Bored Chairman]

Originally posted by The Feral Hydra:

There's some important information to remember here. We have to keep in mind what Asriel tells us if we go back to the Ruins after beating him. When Asriel originally absorbed Chara's soul as described just before the Judgement Hall, he had to fight Chara in order to stop him from using their shared power to annihilate the village. When Asriel dies Chara's soul goes with him. So what does that mean?

I don't exactly know. To be honest Flowey's backstory seems a bit like a plot hole. How can he both a soulless flower and the reanimation of Asriel? How does injecting a flower with determination somehow cause it to be possessed by the soul-not-soul of Asriel? And how does this transfer happen if Flowey is supposedly soulless?

The only thing I can guess is that Alphys used a flower which was covered in the dust of Asriel or had absorbed said dust. When the flower was reanimated it brought back a fragment of Asriel based on the dust he left behind. Since monster souls (even Boss Monster souls) disappear after a while it was only able to animate some small remnant of Asriel which allowed him to keep his memories (but not his soul). But then what happened to Chara?

We know for certain that Chara's soul is not inside Flowey. Had that been the case Flowey would have had seven human souls instead of six at the end and he would have become God. But then how would Flowey have developed the ability to access save files and perform resets? Would a shot of determination from Alphys alone be enough to grant this ability? Had that been the case the Amalgamates (and posssibly Undyne in a genocide run) would have also had this ability.

The only way for Flowey to remain in line with the descriptions and information given in the story would require that some remnant of Chara have been slipped into the dust which was absorbed by the flower. It could be said since Asriel had absorbed Chara's soul that the power Chara possessed became mainfest in Asriel's body. It would certainly be in the line with the dualism of Undertale, where humans have strong souls and monsters have strong bodies.

This was the basis of my theory. The whole "Flowey has no soul" bit didn't sit well with me, since the game basically states THROUGHOUT the playthrough that a Soul determines power. If Flowey is a souless flower, he should be the weakest creature in the game.

But he's able to bring you down to 1 hp with a single attack in his base form. That means, not only does he have power, he has exceptional control over it too.

And he goes on about how he has killed everyone, including Sans, the strongest potential enemy in the game. So how does a flower without a soul accomplish this?

By having 2 souls. The only thing about Chara is that it can't be considered a human soul anymore because of how corrupt it became. Sans and Asgore don't even recognize you as human the further down the Genocide route you go. That's why Asgore needs another human soul.

Remember that Asriel absorbed Chara's soul, so it stands to reason that they would merge. When Asriel died, the dust of his soul scattered on the flowers. But the power of Chara's soul allowed it to endure until it was saturated it DETERMINATION.

Remember also that Chara's Soul tried to get Asriel to kill the humans. Asriel had to fight him to regain control, and this was in a body that was completely his.

So imagine the level of control Asriel has over a shared body.

The theory still works. Flowey is the result of Chara and Asriel's souls merging, with Chara's essence being the driving force behind Flowey's actions. Chara is doing everything he can to escape from Flowey which is why he is finally released when Frisk kills Flowey at the end of the Genocide route.

But what about if you kill him during the neutral playthrough? Well, he isn't powerful enough to leave yet. Remember my earlier point. You hit LVL 20 after defeating Sans.

Basically, the Genocide playthrough is you powering Chara, and not Frisk. If you name the fallen human Frisk, you enter hard mode.

And hard mode ends after the fight with Toriel. Seriously. There is no possible way to make Frisk the "Fallen human".

Chara devotes all his cunning and patience towards making the player free him. Every comment, even the more benign ones are a lure, trying to tempt the player into freeing him.

[MonarchTribe]

Yeah, but what if there was still a small piece of Asriel’s soul still in there? Maybe the DT injection jumpstarted the soul piece and revived Asriel. But the piece was too small or just not a strong enough to become the real thing, so it deprived Asriel of most emotions, resulting in Flowey.

[awful twine]

Originally posted by Chris McLean:

Originally posted by The Bored Chairman:

Flowey actually kills Sans several times, he mentions this when talking about resetting.

Flowey is actually stronger than Sans without the six other souls. He absorbs those souls strictly to kill you.

Yeah I'm actually more powerful than I appear. It's ironic that the thing you got killed by is the most innocent thing imaginable. Although I regret it now.

thanks Chris Mclean