think you found an inconsistency in the game?. Discuss it here!.

[Zegian]

This discussions probly guna be full of spoilers

so to start things off,
Flowey.
in the genocide route near the end he tells you about how he first woke up in Asgore's garden. his first molment of conciousness as a flower,
in the True lab the records say that that flower was experimented on..
Record 8 mentions the idea of suprising asgore with using that flower. record 10 says its not any different from the control cases,
record 12 says they are just guna keep injecting determination into everything.
record 18 says "the flower's gone."

So either flowey was in the true lab or he wasent right?.
Flowey claims he woke up in that garden. so did Alphy's do all the experiments on the first flower while it was still in Asgore's garden and inject all the Determination while it was still there?.
or did somebody Move flowey back there? and if so. who?..

[Zeox]

If she wanted to surprise Asgore, she couldn't take the flower to her lab, so instead she did the experiments in Asgore's garden

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Why did Asriel just happen to be in the RUINs to find Chara as they fell, when he and the rest of the Dreemurr's live in New Home all the way at the otherside of the Underground?

How does it snow underground? While on the subject, how is there an entire forest underground?

How do the monsters in New Home know which part of the story the last group of monsters left off on? Also if they think you're a monster like them, why are they telling you the story in the first? Wouldn't every monster already know it?

The game never states that the human has to be dead in order for their SOUL to be used. Since the 7 magicians that made the seal were obviously alive, they should only need to kill one human to allow a single monster across the barrier, then persuade 6 humans to help them remove the seal without resorting to murder.

In the genocide run, Flowey states that he's killed "everyone". This would mean that he has at some point killed both Sans and Asgore. However, he also says he's never been able to get the 6 human SOULs that Asgore has. How could he possibly have not gotten them when he killed everyone?

There's a bit of a misconception in the New Home Asriel story. The story says that Asriel's ashes spread on the garden as if it was already there. However, the garden of golden flowers could not have possibly grown until after Asriel died, as it actually grows from his remains. Really the story should say something more along the lines of, "Asriel's ashes spread across the throne room, and a garden bloomed in their place."

[dave fanatic]

I found one. Most of the fanbase.
XDDD IS FUNY HAHAHAAHAHH IS JOK YEY

[iSmile02]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Why did Asriel just happen to be in the RUINs to find Chara as they fell, when he and the rest of the Dreemurr's live in New Home all the way at the otherside of the Underground?

How does it snow underground? While on the subject, how is there an entire forest underground?

How do the monsters in New Home know which part of the story the last group of monsters left off on? Also if they think you're a monster like them, why are they telling you the story in the first? Wouldn't every monster already know it?

The game never states that the human has to be dead in order for their SOUL to be used. Since the 7 magicians that made the seal were obviously alive, they should only need to kill one human to allow a single monster across the barrier, then persuade 6 humans to help them remove the seal without resorting to murder.

In the genocide run, Flowey states that he's killed "everyone". This would mean that he has at some point killed both Sans and Asgore. However, he also says he's never been able to get the 6 human SOULs that Asgore has. How could he possibly have not gotten them when he killed everyone?

There's a bit of a misconception in the New Home Asriel story. The story says that Asriel's ashes spread on the garden as if it was already there. However, the garden of golden flowers could not have possibly grown until after Asriel died, as it actually grows from his remains. Really the story should say something more along the lines of, "Asriel's ashes spread across the throne room, and a garden bloomed in their place."

1. They used to live in the RUINs. It says that in the Snowdin Library. They retreated to the end of the cavern after being sealed underground, but eventually moved back to New Home, probably just after Chara fell down.

2. I dunno, maybe there's holes in the cave roof? Also don't know how to answer the second point. I mean, it's a world where monsters exist, maybe it's natural here for forests to grow and for snow to fall underground.

3. Because they have ears. Also, the game never specified that they think you're a monster. They probably know you're human, and they want to tell you the story to possibly make you sad and sorry, and want to give in and surrender your SOUL?

4. Basically explained in the True Pacifist ending. The reason that didn't happen was probably just because, I dunno, Asgore didn't feel like doing that?

5. Because Asgore hasn't displayed the SOULs in their canisters, like he did in the battle against him. If Flowey killed Asgore, why would Asgore bring up those SOUL canisters? Flowey's not a human, he doesn't exactly have a SOUL Asgore wants to capture. He also doesn't exactly have access to the canisters when they're hidden away.

6. It's not once specified that the garden only grew because of Asriel's dust. For all we know there could've been a bunch of grass or leaves there before. It's only specified that after he died, a flower bloomed there.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by iSmile02:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Why did Asriel just happen to be in the RUINs to find Chara as they fell, when he and the rest of the Dreemurr's live in New Home all the way at the otherside of the Underground?

How does it snow underground? While on the subject, how is there an entire forest underground?

How do the monsters in New Home know which part of the story the last group of monsters left off on? Also if they think you're a monster like them, why are they telling you the story in the first? Wouldn't every monster already know it?

The game never states that the human has to be dead in order for their SOUL to be used. Since the 7 magicians that made the seal were obviously alive, they should only need to kill one human to allow a single monster across the barrier, then persuade 6 humans to help them remove the seal without resorting to murder.

In the genocide run, Flowey states that he's killed "everyone". This would mean that he has at some point killed both Sans and Asgore. However, he also says he's never been able to get the 6 human SOULs that Asgore has. How could he possibly have not gotten them when he killed everyone?

There's a bit of a misconception in the New Home Asriel story. The story says that Asriel's ashes spread on the garden as if it was already there. However, the garden of golden flowers could not have possibly grown until after Asriel died, as it actually grows from his remains. Really the story should say something more along the lines of, "Asriel's ashes spread across the throne room, and a garden bloomed in their place."

1. They used to live in the RUINs. It says that in the Snowdin Library. They retreated to the end of the cavern after being sealed underground, but eventually moved back to New Home, probably just after Chara fell down.
2. I dunno, maybe there's holes in the cave roof? Also don't know how to answer the second point. I mean, it's a world where monsters exist, maybe it's natural here for forests to grow and for snow to fall underground.

3. Because they have ears. Also, the game never specified that they think you're a monster. They probably know you're human, and they want to tell you the story to possibly make you sad and sorry, and want to give in and surrender your SOUL?

4. Basically explained in the True Pacifist ending. The reason that didn't happen was probably just because, I dunno, Asgore didn't feel like doing that?

5. Because Asgore hasn't displayed the SOULs in their canisters, like he did in the battle against him. If Flowey killed Asgore, why would Asgore bring up those SOUL canisters? Flowey's not a human, he doesn't exactly have a SOUL Asgore wants to capture. He also doesn't exactly have access to the canisters when they're hidden away.

6. It's not once specified that the garden only grew because of Asriel's dust. For all we know there could've been a bunch of grass or leaves there before. It's only specified that after he died, a flower bloomed there.

1. Toriel moved to the RUINs to hide from Asgore, so that would mean that ONLY Toriel has ever lived in that Home.

2. Doesn't answer the question.

3. If they thought you were a monster they would attack you.

4. Toriel says he could have gone to the surface with one SOUL, but she never clarifies whether Asgore would have killed the humans or not. But the main problem with this is that the whole point of pacifist is finding a nonviolent solution that no one thought of, and this is a possible plot hole that undermines that aspect of the story.

5. That's taking the canisters appearing way too literally, plus Flowey has all the time in the world to figure out how Asgore makes them appear.

6. It is specified, it's just not directly spoonfed information. You have to put clues together. To start you off, if the golden flowers were already in the UNDERGROUND, why would Chara need to go to the surface to see them? Why is it important that Alphys notes that the golden flower seeds stick to skin and are hard to remove?

[EASY PETE]

I found an inconsistency

you

only joking!

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[Dummpkopf (ako)]

First off, please don't put all text between [spoiIer] [/spoiier]. It's really annoying and everyone already knows that there will be spoilers in this thread.

Now, to the questions. I'm aware that I may be mistaken, but this is what I think:

To Zegian's question "Where did Flowey wake up the first time?"

I think that Alphys really did put him in Asgore's garden. "The flower's gone" could mean that he's gone from Asgore's garden, or maybe this message wasn't even written by Alphys (like the messages that are just a =) face; I doubt she wrote those ones. Maybe Flowey did).

To Edgy Asriel's question "Where did the Dreemur family live?"

They first lived in the Ruins, then after Chara fell, they went to live to New Home. After Asriel and Chara died, Toriel returned to the Ruins.

To Edgy Asriel's question "How is there a forest and snow in the underground?"

I don't really like this theory, but I don't know any other better one, so: Some people say that there must be cracks in the ceiling of the cavern, and that's why it can snow, and why trees can grow thanks to the little sunshine that enters through the cracks.

To Edgy Asriel's question "Why do monsters in New Home behave as they do?"

My theory is that the grey house we see before encountering Asgore is not really the "New Home" they talk about in the game, but instead it is a memory, like when Undyne attacks you and you fall in a pile of flowers and remember what Asriel said when Chara fell. I think this because it's all grey (and everyone agrees that it being grey doesn't make sense, right?) and because everything is exactly the same as when Chara and Asriel were alive.

So, if what I said it's true, I believe monsters do what they do because they are not really there. They are a part of that imaginary house. They tell you the story that was already in your memory (Charas' memory).

To Edgy Asriel's question "Why can't Asgore just ask other humans to peacefully break the barrier?"

Because, first, he should kill at least 1 human to go out. And that's not a good start to ask for help to other humans :/

And second, I think that humans in the surface in the Undertale universe are based on real life humans. That would mean that they no longer know how to use magic. Monsters, on the other hand, know how. That's why monsters with human SOULs can break the barrier, but humans can't because they don't know how.

Third, in the intro they say that 7 REALLY POWERFUL human magicians created the barrier. That would mean that 7 normal humans, even if they knew how to use magic, wouldn't be able to break it.

To Edgy Asriel's question "If Flowey once killed everyone (including Asgore), how didn't he get the human SOULs?"

Probably because they are hidden, so even if he kills Asgore, he wouldn't know where they are or how to access them.

You would say "Well, he has had an eternity to figure it out". I guess, yes. But never in his eternity did Asgore have a reason to show the SOULs (he shows them only when he's about to fight you because he intends to retain yours in the remaining empty container).

You could say "Ok, but if after I finish the game, I RESET, then Flowey should know where the SOULs are and should be able to get them in the beginning of the game". That wouldn't work because the only way to RESET after Flowey finds the SOULs is to do a True Reset. That means that he too forgets everything.

To Edgy Asriel's question "How could Asriel's dust spread across the flowers, if the flowers' seeds were brought by him in the first place?"

Remember how Chara died? They ate buttercup flowers. That means that there were already flowers in the underground before Asriel died. So, Asriel's dust must have been spread across the buttercups...

But the story the monsters tell you at the end of the pacifist route (which is not completely true, since the real true story is told by Flowey at the end of the genocide route), says that Chara's last wish was to see the flowers of their town. But were those flowers buttercups too? Or were they just similar yellow flowers...? Are the flowers we see in the game buttercups? Or are they other type of yellow flowers...? I don't really think I'm getting anywhere, so I'll leave this question to another theorist XD

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Flowey wouldn't forget anything if is HE is the one reseting, and tbh the fact that Flowey forgets everything when the player True Resets is an inconsistency in itself.

[Dragon Fist Ent]

For # 4 another reason why asgore doesn't just take a soul and get the rest is he'd probably go insane by the time he found a human village, collect the other 6, and return to the mountian. In the game only 1 monster has ever been recorded to take a human soul and thats asriel, also note no one really knew what would happen when they did. After asriel took chara's soul they were both probably shocked to see they had roughly equal control over the body or that chara was even there. Later in the game we see flowey having trouble controling the souls not once, but twice with both monster and human souls. He doesn't even completely use the souls the first time, he uses a machine to channel the power to him. later i think is probably using all the monster souls as a buffer to keep him in control of the human souls(this is just a theory though).
So based on these 3 times for whatever reason asgore may know that the moment he takes a soul he only has a short time to use that power before the human soul starts to figure out it can take control to. so image if asgore where to go out and even get all 7 souls he'd have to make it back with 8 persons all trying to control the same body. In the game hes even planning to use the souls right after he has all 7 and is infront of the gate. i think he might know what might happen and is planning to ensure he can complete his mision and hopefully have time to remove himself before he goes mad with all the voices viving for power in his head.

[Supreme™ [Kef]]

Originally posted by wadi:

"Where did the Dreemur family live?"
They first lived in the Ruins, then after Chara fell, they went to live to New Home. After Asriel and Chara died, Toriel returned to the Ruins.

Toriel and Asgore might not have even been together when the monsters still lived in the Ruins. New Home seems to have been based off Home, but we just assume that because if the order we see them in, and the names 'Home' and 'New Home' are given to the general area, not the cottages themselves. The Dreemurr family could have been formed in New Home, before Toriel exiled herself and built a carbon copy of her house in the ruins because of homesickness.

[spacejunk1999]

SO MUCH BALCK TEXT HELP MEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Zegian]

How did Toriel slice the pie if there are no knifes?

[Zeox]

Originally posted by Zegian:

How did Toriel slice the pie if there are no knifes?

uuuhh... ehhh.... monster magic?
Better question, where she got the milk to do the pie if in the underground there are no cows or goats?

[Supreme™ [Kef]]

Originally posted by Frisk:

Originally posted by Zegian:

How did Toriel slice the pie if there are no knifes?

uuuhh... ehhh.... monster magic?
Better question, where she got the milk to do the pie if in the underground there are no cows or goats?

Toriel is vegan - vegetarian, meaning that she eats meat but not other animal products.

[Zeox]

Originally posted by عزرائيل الحالم:

Originally posted by Frisk:

uuuhh... ehhh.... monster magic?
Better question, where she got the milk to do the pie if in the underground there are no cows or goats?

Toriel is vegan - vegetarian, meaning that she eats meat but not other animal products.

But she made a pie.
For the pie, you need milk
But there are no cows or goats in the underground
So were the milk come from