My Final Thoughts About Chara

[Soundless1997]

I'm sure most of you who are reading this already knows for a fact that Chara is the only character in the game that keeps their memories after a True Reset. This is proven by the fact that after completing the Genocide Route at least once (assuming you never manipulate the game's files in your computer), the ending of the True Pacifist Route is permanently ruined by Chara as they have completely taken over Frisk's body and soul. This led me to believe that Chara is the most evil character in the entire game, even far worse than Flowey.

That's not just it. Chara also takes over the narration during the Genocide Route with quotes such as: "My bed", "I unlocked the chain", "The date I came here", etc. These quotes gave me the impression that they are taking over Frisk's body and that they are the one who is committing the genocide.

Now I know at least half the Undertale community has a different take on this saying that Chara isn't evil for reasons like how they were close with the royal family during the time they were alive, and that's okay with me. You can say Chara is a good person. However, that doesn't mean I'll like them. Even though they may be a good person back in 201X, that doesn't account for what they could potentially do to Frisk during their journey in the underground.

Whether Chara is a good person or not, they are my least favorite character. Capiche?

[Mask]

Okay, but what should you do with this information now? I'm just asking because you're putting that into the discussion hub

[Saff]

Personally, I wouldn't argue that Chara was inherently good; however, I wouldn't ever fool myself into thinking it's Chara who's doing the genocide actions.

Chara cannot drag Frisk into a genocide run without the player deliberately following that route through to completion despite being given every opportunity to abandon the route right up until the very end. Even after the end, Chara can't possess Frisk unless the player then deliberately sells their soul to Chara to get the world back and then deliberately completes a True Pacifist route.

Chara hated humanity in life, and became connected to Frisk the moment they fell into the Underground. The player's actions before leaving the game determine whether Chara's hatred for humanity will possess Frisk once they're free on the surface with whatever power that connection might allow for.

Chara was obviously a troubled soul in life, and things start getting philosophical when you get into 'nature vs nurture' as far as how someone "turns out" in life. But in simplified "good vs evil" terms, Chara is plainly an evil influence kept in check (or not) by the player's actions.

To me, Chara isn't so much a character, but a consequence.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

I'm sure most of you who are reading this already knows for a fact that Chara is the only character in the game that keeps their memories after a True Reset. This is proven by the fact that after completing the Genocide Route at least once (assuming you never manipulate the game's files in your computer), the ending of the True Pacifist Route is permanently ruined by Chara as they have completely taken over Frisk's body and soul. This led me to believe that Chara is the most evil character in the entire game, even far worse than Flowey.

Wrong, chara remembers and take over frisk because frisk willingly gave them their soul.
And thus, Chara becomes able to remember and take control, it have absolutely nothing to do with being good or bad.

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

That's not just it. Chara also takes over the narration during the Genocide Route with quotes such as: "My bed", "I unlocked the chain", "The date I came here", etc. These quotes gave me the impression that they are taking over Frisk's body and that they are the one who is committing the genocide.

That makes absolutely 0 sense.

Chara isnt a good person, that was said by asriel himself, chara is bad, or in the BEST case scenario, not good at all. This is canon, but.

The fact that they have a consciousness and speaks to you means they have counsciousness, period, thats all. Theya rent commiting genocide, they cant act at all!

Everytime you chose to fight, its your choice, chara is totally powerless, everytime you chose to spare, its your choice, chara is totally powerless. Chara only acts when you reach LV 20.

Until then, chara is completely innocent about every action you ever take.

Chara is evil as anyone who have completed full genocide knows, but they cant be blamed by your actions in genocide.

[Mask]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

I'm sure most of you who are reading this already knows for a fact that Chara is the only character in the game that keeps their memories after a True Reset. This is proven by the fact that after completing the Genocide Route at least once (assuming you never manipulate the game's files in your computer), the ending of the True Pacifist Route is permanently ruined by Chara as they have completely taken over Frisk's body and soul. This led me to believe that Chara is the most evil character in the entire game, even far worse than Flowey.

Wrong, chara remembers and take over frisk because frisk willingly gave them their soul.
And thus, Chara becomes able to remember and take control, it have absolutely nothing to do with being good or bad.

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

That's not just it. Chara also takes over the narration during the Genocide Route with quotes such as: "My bed", "I unlocked the chain", "The date I came here", etc. These quotes gave me the impression that they are taking over Frisk's body and that they are the one who is committing the genocide.

That makes absolutely 0 sense.

Chara isnt a good person, that was said by asriel himself, chara is bad, or in the BEST case scenario, not good at all. This is canon, but.

The fact that they have a consciousness and speaks to you means they have counsciousness, period, thats all. Theya rent commiting genocide, they cant act at all!

Everytime you chose to fight, its your choice, chara is totally powerless, everytime you chose to spare, its your choice, chara is totally powerless. Chara only acts when you reach LV 20.

Until then, chara is completely innocent about every action you ever take.

Chara is evil as anyone who have completed full genocide knows, but they cant be blamed by your actions in genocide.

asriel never said that. He claimed that Chara was not the greatest person. This statement did not mean that Chara was bad. If you look closely at Asgore's words he uttered to Chara (the words you see on every game over), you can see that he held a great deal on her. Since she was probably the only and best chance for the monsters to escape from the underground. What do you think why Chara herself POISED just to get the missing souls with Asriel. And if you now argue that was all Chara's plan, then I ask you, what a master plan that was please: "Oh hey, I believe a legend that monsters under a mountain, jump into a deep hole, bring me Even around and hope that my monster friend absorbs my soul (about which I could have had no idea before), go to the surface to slaughter all humans

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

That's not just it. Chara also takes over the narration during the Genocide Route with quotes such as: "My bed", "I unlocked the chain", "The date I came here", etc. These quotes gave me the impression that they are taking over Frisk's body and that they are the one who is committing the genocide.

Chara is implied to be the narrator throughout the entire game, not just the moments of red text in the Genocide Route. The red text are moments of emotional intensity, and are really just there to add another creep factor into the genocide route.

[Mask]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Soundless1997:

That's not just it. Chara also takes over the narration during the Genocide Route with quotes such as: "My bed", "I unlocked the chain", "The date I came here", etc. These quotes gave me the impression that they are taking over Frisk's body and that they are the one who is committing the genocide.

Chara is implied to be the narrator throughout the entire game, not just the moments of red text in the Genocide Route. The red text are moments of emotional intensity, and are really just there to add another creep factor into the genocide route.

You watched the Theory Video of the Judgement Boys , don´t you?

[Casual Amateur]

Originally posted by I'm a Feminist:

I don't think people understand that YOU, the player, are good or evil based on the route you choose. Chara is evil as well. He/she erases the world effectively getting revenge on humanity. Chara recreates the world at the exchange of your soul to take revenge on humanity once again, "perverted sentimentality".

They mostly think about Chara. They didn't say any thing about player not being bad. You know.

[weenor]

My final thoughts are, chara is secertly black

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by Happy Mask Salesman:

asriel never said that. He claimed that Chara was not the greatest person. This statement did not mean that Chara was bad. If you look closely at Asgore's words he uttered to Chara (the words you see on every game over), you can see that he held a great deal on her. Since she was probably the only and best chance for the monsters to escape from the underground. What do you think why Chara herself POISED just to get the missing souls with Asriel. And if you now argue that was all Chara's plan, then I ask you, what a master plan that was please: "Oh hey, I believe a legend that monsters under a mountain, jump into a deep hole, bring me Even around and hope that my monster friend absorbs my soul (about which I could have had no idea before), go to the surface to slaughter all humans

Direct quote from teh wiki

""While initially cast in a sympathetic light, Asriel admits at the end of the True Pacifist Route that Chara "...wasn't really the greatest person." Asriel states that Chara climbed Mount Ebott for an unhappy reason, and adds that Chara "hated humanity".""

Remember that asriel is an innocent little kid, and a monster kid on top of that, monsters have their souls made from love and compassion. For him to say even that reveals that chara wasnt a good person at all.

Also, as Asriel directly tells you, chara really wanted and tried to kill all humans they encountered while they were into the human world, she didnt kill them because, and ill quote again

""Asriel resisted Chara, which ultimately led to the humans killing the fusion of the two SOULs.""

Chara actually tried to murder the humans when they could have fled easily.

Also, if you complete pacifist after genocide..... well, you know what happens.

Chara is evil, this isnt debatable, its canon.
Why? this can be theorized, but Chara wants to kill humans, this is canon, chara hates humanity, this is canon, chara wasnt a good person, this is canon, and chara, if left unchecked, wants to kill everyone, not only humans, as proven in pacifist post-genocide ending.

Chara didnt have any plan. Chara was a kid. They were unhappy, they hated humanity and, when given a bit of power, wanted to use that power to kill innocents, unsuccesfully because of asriel at the first try, sucessfully in post-pacifist.

TLDR: Chara wants to kill inocents and hates mankind unconditionally, and that´s evil, not "debatable".

[Mask]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by Happy Mask Salesman:

asriel never said that. He claimed that Chara was not the greatest person. This statement did not mean that Chara was bad. If you look closely at Asgore's words he uttered to Chara (the words you see on every game over), you can see that he held a great deal on her. Since she was probably the only and best chance for the monsters to escape from the underground. What do you think why Chara herself POISED just to get the missing souls with Asriel. And if you now argue that was all Chara's plan, then I ask you, what a master plan that was please: "Oh hey, I believe a legend that monsters under a mountain, jump into a deep hole, bring me Even around and hope that my monster friend absorbs my soul (about which I could have had no idea before), go to the surface to slaughter all humans

Direct quote from teh wiki

""While initially cast in a sympathetic light, Asriel admits at the end of the True Pacifist Route that Chara "...wasn't really the greatest person." Asriel states that Chara climbed Mount Ebott for an unhappy reason, and adds that Chara "hated humanity".""

Remember that asriel is an innocent little kid, and a monster kid on top of that, monsters have their souls made from love and compassion. For him to say even that reveals that chara wasnt a good person at all.

Also, as Asriel directly tells you, chara really wanted and tried to kill all humans they encountered while they were into the human world, she didnt kill them because, and ill quote again

""Asriel resisted Chara, which ultimately led to the humans killing the fusion of the two SOULs.""

Chara actually tried to murder the humans when they could have fled easily.

Also, if you complete pacifist after genocide..... well, you know what happens.

Chara is evil, this isnt debatable, its canon.
Why? this can be theorized, but Chara wants to kill humans, this is canon, chara hates humanity, this is canon, chara wasnt a good person, this is canon, and chara, if left unchecked, wants to kill everyone, not only humans, as proven in pacifist post-genocide ending.

Chara didnt have any plan. Chara was a kid. They were unhappy, they hated humanity and, when given a bit of power, wanted to use that power to kill innocents, unsuccesfully because of asriel at the first try, sucessfully in post-pacifist.

TLDR: Chara wants to kill inocents and hates mankind unconditionally, and that´s evil, not "debatable".

First of all, I would like to respond to your argument that Chara is a child and has no plan. Whether she is angry or not, she has a plan. However, he came off not before the case in Mount Ebott, but only after Chara and Asriel made a cake for Asgore. The golden flowers that poisoned him gave Chara the opportunity to move. The game itself says so in the True Lab. The tapes of Charas and Asriel's past show that the two had a plan to free the monsters. You also say that Chara hated humanity. But here I can actually take your argument that she is a child. A child can not just develop such hatred from one day to the next. My theory is that she may have been mistreated. And I mean many things speak for it. Asriel himself says that Chara never told Asriel why she actually hated humanity. Now you hardly want to talk about violent maltreatment ... Also, you say that Chara wanted to kill people directly when they arrived in the village. But that's not true. Just before the end of the True Pacifist, the monsters tell the following story: As Asriel put Chara on the flower bed, people suddenly appeared and attacked him when they saw that he was carrying humans. From the point of view of humans, Asriel was a monster that had already killed a human being. So the humans attacked first. And Asriel tells the following: Chara wanted to fight back but he himself refused to fight back and not a human was killed. So you can stick to the point: Chara wanted to defend himself in the human village only, which is understandable in my opinion when a furious mop wants to slaughter you. Offside I have to apologize for not arguing that Chara was not the greatest person because I was not detailed enough. As we know, Chara landed at the Dreemuurs. The tapes in the True Lab show that they evidently became a happy family. So it seems at first glance. Asriel himself says that Chara did not climb the mountain for a really happy reason. Well, I called that the reason. But why was Chara on Mount Ebott? Now most people who think Chara is good believe that they want to commit suicide. But in my opinion this is a little too high. Suicidally most often act out of inner pressure or great depression. Now a depression would be possible if another detail were present: Chara's age. Depression leading to suicide is usually an act of severe despair. Well Chara is desperate. BUT! What does a maybe eight to ten year old child do when it has "problems"? It tries to run away. Suicide is much more common in older people than in younger people. Because the problems are bigger and more complex and can not run away from them. Now from the game itself, it should be clear that Charas Village is located near Mount Ebott (Asriel walks back and forth before dying). In the cutscene at the beginning of the game, we see Chara stumbling on the mountain and falling into the hole to the ground. Important is the Chara running. According to my theory she tries to get away from the village as fast as possible. Now Asgore saw Chara as the hope for humans and monsters. To be hopeful for the generations of monsters waiting so long is a heavy burden for a small child. As hard as the Chara Asgore (her adoptive father) wanted to disappoint at no cost and committed suicide to get the only way to bring the monsters to the surface. It should also be said that nowhere is the Chara hated the monster. For this the sweater of Asgore is important. in the Genocide Run, it becomes clear that Chara knitted this sweater. The inscription "Mr. Dad-Guy" would have been very untypical for Asriel. He probably just wrote Dad. Why should he call his father Mister? So why should Chara knit a sweater for someone who would be totally useless for their "human genocide plan"? This can only conclude that Chara feels something for the monster, especially for the Dreemuurs. I'm still doing that, but I've slowly reached the limit of words that can be used to feed Google Translate!

[Mask]

So far I have only dealt with the past of Chara. Let's get to the present. Most people assume that Chara is good, assuming the Chara Frisk is accompanied throughout the game. How can we prove that? With frogs! Yes seriously with frogs. In fact, with Froggits. In the textboxes of Froggits the following is noticeable. First comes what Froggit uttered, followed by a translation in brackets. From whom could Frisk have this translation. Possibly from someone who lived longer under the monsters. It is probably clear what I want out. Another point is the fact where Chara is buried. And from the game itself, one learns and in the point everyone agrees: Chara is buried there where Frisk lands on a bed of golden flowers. The flowers, which normally do not grow underground, but only appeared on the surface after Asriel's visit. How is Chara getting there? very easily. In Asgore's Castle we find the coffins of fallen people. The far left (and the only one you can use) is empty. In this coffin the name Chara is engraved. Now at the end of the True Pacifist you can run around in the game and of course back into the coffin room. But something has changed besides the opening of the remaining coffins. Frisk falls onto the bandages lying on the casket. Now the general lore says the following. Nobody else, as Toriel took Chara out of the coffin and embedded her under the entrance to the Untergund. Why just you? Now, before you finally leave the ruins at the beginning, you can go back (in the True Pacifist) and you see Toriel standing in front of the flower bed she has fallen for. And if you talk to her, she says someone has to take care of the flowers. Why should Toriel take care of flowers that grow randomly somewhere, if it is not just a grave. But why is Chara "awakening" and accompanying you? Now one knows that the color of a soul shows the salient property of its owner. And red stands for determination. And who has a red heart on her coffin? Right Chara! But who is still determined. Right Frisk! My theory is that Frisk's determination was strong enough to reawaken Chara's "soul". Now Chara accompanies Frisk and gives her advice and translates Froggitsprache. But if Chara wants to see all the monsters dead, why does not she tell Frisk what she says in genocide? That too is easy. One notices first that something in the behavior of Charas comments changes, if YOU have already killed some monsters. And she is mostly silent (mostly just "..."). And you have to look at it all from Chara's point of view. She suddenly awakens without any directly explainable reason and the first thing she sees is how a HUMAN kills monsters. I suppose that Chara is forced by Frisk's determination to accompany him and has to watch this genocide. Referring to the comments in the Pacifit and Genocide: genocide comments are useless! While Chara gives the best tips in the Pacifist Frisk to conserve with the monster and not kill. But why does Chara sometimes say something like "free EXP" in genocide? Or "in my way". Now Chara repeats the opinion that the player thinks she has from this world. Now comes a core science of this game to bear. The meaning of EXP and LOVE. Where LOVE is in the foreground. The meaning that Sans presents to us is that they stand for the willingness to kill someone. In the status we see Chara's name, so the LV value is their value and not Frisks. Because if Frisk is going to kill all the monsters from the beginning, his LV would have to be long gone. But in the underground, he rises only for Chara Monster for Monster. But who does she want to kill? You relation Frisk. What does it do? And my final argument is this: if you complete the genocide twice, Chara says the following: That she can not understand why the player did this again. Why should a killer not understand that? To be continued tomorrow ...

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Happy Mask Salesman:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Chara is implied to be the narrator throughout the entire game, not just the moments of red text in the Genocide Route. The red text are moments of emotional intensity, and are really just there to add another creep factor into the genocide route.

You watched the Theory Video of the Judgement Boys , don´t you?

I have, but there was also a long reddit post that discussed it and the implications at length. And there are things with the first Judgment Boy video that I don’t agree with (Chara taking Frisk’s soul to avenge the monsters in some way, or really the notion that Chara is still good after the genocide route), which even Judgement Boy reconsidered in their follow up video.

[rorgfist]

Please, use spaces and paragraphs, is learned at such a young age for a very good reason.

Bricks of text are slow and annoying to read, also, dont forget to separate different phrases clearly, instead of putting such a tight brick.

I will humour you this time, but i wont read something that ill structured again.

1 They didnt when they fell, they only came with one later, as the videos show, yes.
Nothing new here.


2 They could very well be mistreated, and that could very well be the reason for their hate, that doesnt really change anything at all.


3 Invalid point. They could have just left the body on the flower bed and fled, they were vastly faster and stronger than the humans. Monsters also attack you as soon as they see you in game, just like humans did to asriel. Yet you dont have to kill them, you can flee, heck, you can even complete the entire game without landing a single blow.


4 There is nothing that points to a suicide in the entire game. Its not impossible, but it certainly cant be confirmed, while im open to theorycrafting, it cant be taken as canon, neither it can be used to explain anything about chara in the canon either.


5 It isnt said that chara hates monster, yes, yet they carefully warn you about how many monsters are left alive so you can have an easier time exterminating them, behaves violently killing asgore and flowey on their own (and later, you, the player), and then go on a killing spree against their own friends, as shown in the post-pacifist picture.
Someone that actively kills monsters and help you kill monsters is someone who hates monsters.

It isnt said, it is shown, which is an even stronger way of expressing it.

6 chara cant knit, they are a child, do you have any canon confirmation/quote/video about it?

7 whats your native language? i speak 3 languages, maybe we actually share a common language that is easier for you than english.
Also, my apologies for the text brick rant before, i just thought you were written in an unorganized and careless way on purpose.

Still, try to space things a little, please.

Second comment:

8 Chara is good? what?
Unless your religion considers genocide as a pure and noble virtue.

9 ill quote you:

""How can we prove that? With frogs! Yes seriously with frogs. In fact, with Froggits. In the textboxes of Froggits the following is noticeable. First comes what Froggit uttered, followed by a translation in brackets. From whom could Frisk have this translation. Possibly from someone who lived longer under the monsters. It is probably clear what I want out""

That doesnt mean anything. It proves nothing or hints nothing, Its like saying that chara was good because tomorrow will be tuesday. Its completely unrelated.

10 well, i dont agree to that AT ALL.

Chara should be buried OUTSIDE of the barrier, next to the village.
Asriel took Chara´s corpse through the barrier( thats the whole reason he got attacked), and return without it.

In the very best case scenario, i could be where Asriel landed and dusted (and thus, when asriel is buried, it is also where kid asriel is after pacifist.)

Asriel gave his own life so Chara could be buried at the village, it would make 0 sense for him to return again with their body; the flower patch is part of the underground, chara isnt buried on the underground.

11 Provide link for the coffin having the name of CHARA on it, i have never seen it.
I dont know if this is real or not, it would be nice to know for sure.

12 why is toriel taking care fo those flowers? probably because its the palce where Asriel died.
Asriel came back to teh underground fatally wounded.
You find flowey there, you find kid asriel permanently there too.
And it perfectly justifies toriels behaviour.


13 Frisk determination could be the reson charas consciousness came back from death.
Not charas soul, as chara doesnt have a soul till you give yours.


14 Charas presence, comments and influence get stronger and stronger the more love you get, so if you have low love (1-7) it makes perfect sense for chara to not say or do anything.


15 I will quote you again

""And you have to look at it all from Chara's point of view. She suddenly awakens without any directly explainable reason and the first thing she sees is how a HUMAN kills monsters. I suppose that Chara is forced by Frisk's determination to accompany him and has to watch this genocide. Referring to the comments in the Pacifit and Genocide: genocide comments are useless! While Chara gives the best tips in the Pacifist Frisk to conserve with the monster and not kill. But why does Chara sometimes say something like "free EXP" in genocide? Or "in my way". Now Chara repeats the opinion that the player thinks she has from this world.""

That was entirely created out of thin air. Chara either comments nothing, or comments things like "free exp" or "in my way" "12 monsters left" and so on.

All of their commentaries are encouraging genocide, which is evil. And have no justification in canon. Chara beign forced to X by frisk determination is completely false (go ahead and prove it if you think otherwise)
Chara repeating the opinion of the player is also completely false and unfounded.

Canon facts and words only, please. Do not try to justify unjustifying things with completely made up stories.

16 Chara, as anyone with a bit of logic, cant understand why you gave your own soul, body and life (chara can take over your body afterwards as proven in post genocide pacifist) just for nothing, as you repeated exactly the same again.

And its totally logical of chara.

You gave everything you had, not to change anything, but to end up on the exact same spot.

You want to know charas true thoughts, actions and words.

Read the red text, and watch what they do when they can actually do something, at the end of genocide or at the end of post-genocide pacifist.

Every single time chara can actually act, he murders everyone, you, your friends, their brother.....

And this is canon, those are charas actions when they can act.

Tell me, my first and only question.

If chara is anything other than completely evil...... why does they kill everyone after doing a perfect happy ending?

Because thats what they do if they have your soul and you complete pacifist.

Not to mention destroying the entire world as soon as they are powerful enough to do it.

[BreakinBenny]

I do not see Chara as fully evil, nuh-uh. Their misantropic feelings are confirmed when Flowey is killed off in the final part of the genocide.


Do you honestly believe Chara was evil all along? The players are also involved and are pulling the strings in the first place.

So…the true antagonists are players themselves, should they decide to walk down the path where they exterminate the inhabitants of the underground.

[HumanPersonMan]

Chara is way more confusing to me than Gaster himself. I know that Frisk is a seperate person, and Chara is. . . Something. But what about the player? The game breaks the fourth wall so much I should adress that. Chara is a human who fell down here long ago, and a family of monsters took them in. Chara/Asriel accidentaly put something poisonous into a food, and Chara just laughed it off. Also, Asriel is asking Chara to do a creepy smile in the true lab? Something seems off about this person, even before Genocide. We know your name is what's used as chara really, and during the speech in Genocide, she/he says that ATK,GOLD,XP,LV,Ect. is them. I think Chara is no person anymore. What if Chara is the main character, not Frisk? It explains that theres more of a fleshed out story for her/him. Chara was somehow able to manifest into it's own feeling, and it's in all of us. When you play an RPG and you level up thats Chara inside of you. A representation of that satisfying feeling on the screen. Chara is the gateway to your possesion of each character in any RPG in my opinion. But still. . . That doesn't explain how Chara changed from human to it's own Demon.

In short, you are kinda Chara I think.