How Powerful Is Flowey?

[Cilrag]

NOTE: I am talking about normal Flowey and NOT Omega Flowey, so please don't bring that Demon Spawn OR the Human SOULS into this.
This is a question that's always been bugging me. Flowey obviously has a lot of HP at the start of the game because he survived an attack from Toriel, who has 80 AT and was able to send Asgore flying. He also doesn't have any LOVE because no one in the Underground has recently died by the time you arrive.
So how much HP, AT and DF does Flowey really have? How difficult would it be to fight him directly?

[fushigi friend]

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

Drowning music in Sonic の投稿を引用：

So lets assume that souls increase your level.

As the signs in water fall tell us, every monster soul is equal to 1 human soul.

When you kill almost every monster in the genocide route, you become level 20.

So 1 human soul is somewhere above level 20.

So six human souls would equal above level 120.

When Flowey absorbes the 6 souls, he becomes level 9999.

So the total level minus the level from human souls should (maybe) get us his normal level.

9999 - 120 = 9879

So if I'm correct on all of this, Flowey is usally level 9879.

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

This would not make sense because you do not kill all the monsters, what about the masses in ruins and new home towns? What about everyone that evacuated? So a human with LV 1 is the same as every single monster in the underground. What about something with no soul? LV 20 is the maximum LV a human can get. You get 20 LV by killing less than half of the entire underground. Maybe since Flowey isn't human nor monster, it is easier to level up, not 49999999 EXP to get to LV 20. Also absorbing souls is a whole different category than just killing them, who knows, maybe Flowey killed all six humans and sent them to Asgore to try to warm up to him, so in all future timelines he will have access to the souls, but Asgore still didn't let him. So killing a human will give a lot more EXP than Sans, and absorbing their souls would be like killing 10000 Sans so I think that doing math in regards to Soul magic is irrelevant.

Exactly, it doesn't make sense. That's why I said this:

Drowning music in Sonic の投稿を引用：

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

[DanEgbert]

Drowning music in Sonic の投稿を引用：

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

This would not make sense because you do not kill all the monsters, what about the masses in ruins and new home towns? What about everyone that evacuated? So a human with LV 1 is the same as every single monster in the underground. What about something with no soul? LV 20 is the maximum LV a human can get. You get 20 LV by killing less than half of the entire underground. Maybe since Flowey isn't human nor monster, it is easier to level up, not 49999999 EXP to get to LV 20. Also absorbing souls is a whole different category than just killing them, who knows, maybe Flowey killed all six humans and sent them to Asgore to try to warm up to him, so in all future timelines he will have access to the souls, but Asgore still didn't let him. So killing a human will give a lot more EXP than Sans, and absorbing their souls would be like killing 10000 Sans so I think that doing math in regards to Soul magic is irrelevant.

Exactly, it doesn't make sense. That's why I said this:

Drowning music in Sonic の投稿を引用：

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

There is no other way he could have got the LV. LV doesn't stay in resets. So he must have gotten it somehow. I have an idea, maybe since LV is your capacity to hurt, and he has no emotions, he could already hurt people to great length. Already distancing himself and giving himself high LV without needing to kill anyone.

[MissCassidy]

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

Drowning music in Sonic の投稿を引用：

Exactly, it doesn't make sense. That's why I said this:

There is no other way he could have got the LV. LV doesn't stay in resets. So he must have gotten it somehow. I have an idea, maybe since LV is your capacity to hurt, and he has no emotions, he could already hurt people to great length. Already distancing himself and giving himself high LV without needing to kill anyone.

Another theory is that the 6 human souls have gotten him the LV?
After all, LV only exists with humans (maybe even alive stuff that shouldn't be alive?).

In a book in the Librarby states that Human Souls can survive even without Hope, Passion or Love,

[DanEgbert]

Bacon the Spooped の投稿を引用：

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

There is no other way he could have got the LV. LV doesn't stay in resets. So he must have gotten it somehow. I have an idea, maybe since LV is your capacity to hurt, and he has no emotions, he could already hurt people to great length. Already distancing himself and giving himself high LV without needing to kill anyone.

Another theory is that the 6 human souls have gotten him the LV?
After all, LV only exists with humans (maybe even alive stuff that shouldn't be alive?).

In a book in the Librarby states that Human Souls can survive even without Hope, Passion or Love,

I.E. Flowey

[MissCassidy]

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

Bacon the Spooped の投稿を引用：

Another theory is that the 6 human souls have gotten him the LV?
After all, LV only exists with humans (maybe even alive stuff that shouldn't be alive?).

In a book in the Librarby states that Human Souls can survive even without Hope, Passion or Love,

I.E. Flowey

I.E.?

[Exarch_Alpha]

LOVE is level of violence. FFS he tries to kill you in the start of the game already, and had "played" multiple times - not just one. It´s obvious that while YOU start the game with level 0, HE won´t - and he might have killed thousands of monsters already. Enough said.

[DanEgbert]

Exarch_Alpha の投稿を引用：

LOVE is level of violence. FFS he tries to kill you in the start of the game already, and had "played" multiple times - not just one. It´s obvious that while YOU start the game with level 0, HE won´t - and he might have killed thousands of monsters already. Enough said.

LV doesn't stay with you between timelines. And by the start of the game he didn't kill anyone yet.

Bacon the Spooped の投稿を引用：

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

I.E. Flowey

I.E.?

Abbreviation for latin word "id est" and means "that is". I was saying that when Flowey absorbed the human souls, he can definitely live without love or compassion. But he can't live without LOVE.

[Exarch_Alpha]

You arrive on FLOWEY´S time line, and then take over, fool. Whatyou think happened in the years before you fell? Delete that nonsense.

[DanEgbert]

Exarch_Alpha の投稿を引用：

You arrive on FLOWEY´S time line, and then take over, fool. Whatyou think happened in the years before you fell? Delete that nonsense.

? LV doesn't stay between timelines though. So even if he killed everyone a million times over, once he reset it would be restarted.

[Purple Smart]

Just Consider this,in the Genocide ending,flowey survives about SEVEN hits from A FULLY LEVELED Frisk/Chara,which do OVER 90K DAMAGE PER HIT

[Purple Smart]

Also,For my actual theory,Since Asriel is a boss monster who only die when their soul is shattered...lacking a soul,flowey is fucntionally Invincible,the only way you could 'kill' flowey is by destroying his body...and look at his genocide fate.

[Cilrag]

Glim Glam の投稿を引用：

Also,For my actual theory,Since Asriel is a boss monster who only die when their soul is shattered...lacking a soul,flowey is fucntionally Invincible,the only way you could 'kill' flowey is by destroying his body...and look at his genocide fate.

That... actually makes a lot of sense.

[DanEgbert]

CheesyGarlicMan の投稿を引用：

Glim Glam の投稿を引用：

Also,For my actual theory,Since Asriel is a boss monster who only die when their soul is shattered...lacking a soul,flowey is fucntionally Invincible,the only way you could 'kill' flowey is by destroying his body...and look at his genocide fate.

That... actually makes a lot of sense.

What about in a neutral run where "Flowey" dies and only a normal flower is in its place.

[MissCassidy]

danman3210 の投稿を引用：

CheesyGarlicMan の投稿を引用：

That... actually makes a lot of sense.

What about in a neutral run where "Flowey" dies and only a normal flower is in its place.

1. Flowey was already weakened
2. One slash is a difference from keep slashing someone down

[Supreme™ [Kef]]

Glim Glam の投稿を引用：

Just Consider this,in the Genocide ending,flowey survives about SEVEN hits from A FULLY LEVELED Frisk/Chara,which do OVER 90K DAMAGE PER HIT

I think that's just an effect to show how brutal the murder is, and to represent Chara's anger in the scene. After all, by the last few hits, Flowey is just a few bits of degree. Also, Flowey is battered to the point of helplessness with only one of Toriel's fire thingys, whereas it takes twenty to kill TP Frisk.