How Powerful Is Flowey?

[Cilrag]

NOTE: I am talking about normal Flowey and NOT Omega Flowey, so please don't bring that Demon Spawn OR the Human SOULS into this.
This is a question that's always been bugging me. Flowey obviously has a lot of HP at the start of the game because he survived an attack from Toriel, who has 80 AT and was able to send Asgore flying. He also doesn't have any LOVE because no one in the Underground has recently died by the time you arrive.
So how much HP, AT and DF does Flowey really have? How difficult would it be to fight him directly?

[Ketchup Boye]

Well, actually, before omega flowey, BTW THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOULS, it says his love is 9999.

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by shadow31802:

Well, actually, before omega flowey, BTW THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOULS, it says his love is 9999.

It could be looked at in two ways,

1. LV stays between timelines.

2. Absorbing souls gives LV. Technically, even though he was not omega Flowey yet, he still had the souls absorbed. So this means that 7 souls would be infinite LV?

It would most likely be the second one because you, as the player, don't keep LV after a reset.

Originally posted by CheesyGarlicMan:

NOTE: I am talking about normal Flowey and NOT Photoshop Flowey, so please don't bring the Human SOULS into this.
This is a question that's always been bugging me. Flowey obviously has a lot of HP at the start of the game because he survived an attack from Toriel, who has 80 AT and was able to send Asgore flying. He also doesn't have any LOVE because no one in the Underground has recently died by the time you arrive.
So how much HP, AT and DF does Flowey really have? How difficult would it be to fight him directly?

HP is hard to tell, most likely a crap ton because he can RESET, so obviously he would have a lot of HoPe. As for ATK and DEF. Since Flowey isn't a monster, he doesn't have a default attack damage. His attacks and do anywhere from 1 damage each hit, to 19. As for his DEF, how much would a leaf protect you?

[Vanessa]

Flowey has so much Determination that he's pretty scary as it is. For comparison, Toriel does 3-4 damage per hit on a LVL 1 Frisk and and Flowey's one attack on you deals 19 damage.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Vanessa 🦄:

Flowey has so much Determination that he's pretty scary as it is. For comparison, Toriel does 3-4 damage per hit on a LVL 1 Frisk and and Flowey's one attack on you deals 19 damage.

Yet when he becomes Asriel he only does like...4-5 dmg per hit? I don't think Toby put that much thought into damage scaling...

[fushigi friend]

So lets assume that souls increase your level.

As the signs in water fall tell us, every monster soul is equal to 1 human soul.

When you kill almost every monster in the genocide route, you become level 20.

So 1 human soul is somewhere above level 20.

So six human souls would equal above level 120.

When Flowey absorbes the 6 souls, he becomes level 9999.

So the total level minus the level from human souls should (maybe) get us his normal level.

9999 - 120 = 9879

So if I'm correct on all of this, Flowey is usally level 9879.

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

HP ATK DEF LV are all based on the strength of the SOUL.
Flowey doesn't have a soul, so he does not have any stats.

[Vanessa]

Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:

Originally posted by Vanessa 🦄:

Flowey has so much Determination that he's pretty scary as it is. For comparison, Toriel does 3-4 damage per hit on a LVL 1 Frisk and and Flowey's one attack on you deals 19 damage.

Yet when he becomes Asriel he only does like...4-5 dmg per hit? I don't think Toby put that much thought into damage scaling...

That's because - as it's stated in the story - as you go through the story, Frisk gains more and more Determination. By the final boss, not only are you DETERMINED enough to survive attacks from a monster with INFINITE ATK, even if your HP is reduced to 0 your SOUL refuses to break.

Believe me, Toby thought it through.

[Cilrag]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

HP ATK DEF LV are all based on the strength of the SOUL.
Flowey doesn't have a soul, so he does not have any stats.

Then how does he die? Or attack?

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by CheesyGarlicMan:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

HP ATK DEF LV are all based on the strength of the SOUL.
Flowey doesn't have a soul, so he does not have any stats.

Then how does he die? Or attack?

Because stats don't really mean anything in Undertale, I mean look at Sans. . .

[ShadowStorm]

Originally posted by Drowning music in Sonic:

So lets assume that souls increase your level.

As the signs in water fall tell us, every monster soul is equal to 1 human soul.

When you kill almost every monster in the genocide route, you become level 20.

So 1 human soul is somewhere above level 20.

So six human souls would equal above level 120.

When Flowey absorbes the 6 souls, he becomes level 9999.

So the total level minus the level from human souls should (maybe) get us his normal level.

9999 - 120 = 9879

So if I'm correct on all of this, Flowey is usally level 9879.

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

He might have used a weaker attack, just so he would have the chance to gloat at and mock the player.

[Cocyx The Gay Skeleton]

Originally posted by Vanessa 🦄:

Originally posted by Cocyx The Gay Skeleton:

Yet when he becomes Asriel he only does like...4-5 dmg per hit? I don't think Toby put that much thought into damage scaling...

That's because - as it's stated in the story - as you go through the story, Frisk gains more and more Determination. By the final boss, not only are you DETERMINED enough to survive attacks from a monster with INFINITE ATK, even if your HP is reduced to 0 your SOUL refuses to break.

Believe me, Toby thought it through.

Or the numbers don't actually mean anything and is used purely as a game design device and Toby just wanted to put you to 1 HP in dramatic situations

(Not that you're wrong about the determination stuff, it's just the numbers don't have anything to do with it)

[Zeox]

Regular flowey have not much power compared to other monsters, for example Toriel defeats him in just 1 hit.
Now, in pacifist ending, when Flowey captures all of your friends, is because he already have the other 6 human souls, so now he have enough power.

[fushigi friend]

Originally posted by ShadowStorm:

Originally posted by Drowning music in Sonic:

So lets assume that souls increase your level.

As the signs in water fall tell us, every monster soul is equal to 1 human soul.

When you kill almost every monster in the genocide route, you become level 20.

So 1 human soul is somewhere above level 20.

So six human souls would equal above level 120.

When Flowey absorbes the 6 souls, he becomes level 9999.

So the total level minus the level from human souls should (maybe) get us his normal level.

9999 - 120 = 9879

So if I'm correct on all of this, Flowey is usally level 9879.

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

He might have used a weaker attack, just so he would have the chance to gloat at and mock the player.

That's like a tank doing trying to give someone a paper cut. You can't without blowing them into peices.

[MissCassidy]

Originally posted by CheesyGarlicMan:

NOTE: I am talking about normal Flowey and NOT Photoshop Flowey, so please don't bring that Demon Spawn into this.
This is a question that's always been bugging me. Flowey obviously has a lot of HP at the start of the game because he survived an attack from Toriel, who has 80 AT and was able to send Asgore flying. He also doesn't have any LOVE because no one in the Underground has recently died by the time you arrive.
So how much HP, AT and DF does Flowey really have? How difficult would it be to fight him directly?

Toriel obviously didn't intend to kill Asgore or Flowey with her attack Her fireball just has incredible knockback.

HP: 1
AT: 19
DF: 1

HP and DF are one because he his is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ flower.

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by Drowning music in Sonic:

So lets assume that souls increase your level.

As the signs in water fall tell us, every monster soul is equal to 1 human soul.

When you kill almost every monster in the genocide route, you become level 20.

So 1 human soul is somewhere above level 20.

So six human souls would equal above level 120.

When Flowey absorbes the 6 souls, he becomes level 9999.

So the total level minus the level from human souls should (maybe) get us his normal level.

9999 - 120 = 9879

So if I'm correct on all of this, Flowey is usally level 9879.

This is part of the reason I belive that human souls don't give levels.

There is no way in hell a creature that's level 9879 only does 19 damage to a human who thinks he is making a new friend.

This would not make sense because you do not kill all the monsters, what about the masses in ruins and new home towns? What about everyone that evacuated? So a human with LV 1 is the same as every single monster in the underground. What about something with no soul? LV 20 is the maximum LV a human can get. You get 20 LV by killing less than half of the entire underground. Maybe since Flowey isn't human nor monster, it is easier to level up, not 49999999 EXP to get to LV 20. Also absorbing souls is a whole different category than just killing them, who knows, maybe Flowey killed all six humans and sent them to Asgore to try to warm up to him, so in all future timelines he will have access to the souls, but Asgore still didn't let him. So killing a human will give a lot more EXP than Sans, and absorbing their souls would be like killing 10000 Sans so I think that doing math in regards to Soul magic is irrelevant.