Was there more than 8 fallen humans?

[DanEgbert]

While we do know that Chara fell down, along with the six other souls, and then Frisk, but is it possible that more than the eight fallen humans that fell into the UNDERGROUND?

Most of them most likely died to Flowey's evil nature and their SOULs, like monster SOULs, were shattered upon death. One plausible idea is that the six that was captured by Asgore as SOULs were really advanced wizardry, strong souls that are different than everyday life.

This would make the most sense because there is no way in hell that 7 humans can make a godlike being. Because of the current population of the earth, you can make one billion Gods of hyperdeath. That is enough for each, individual monster to reach this godly transformation (Imagine the Sans fight, rough) and would not make any sense unless the souls that Asriel absorbed are like, magical SOULs or something.

Another reason that could back this is that if Mt. Ebott is really a "legend", than more than eight humans had to have died, otherwise it wouldn't be a legend like it is. Who would have a legend that only eight people haven't returned.

The last piece of supporting evidence is some Toriel dialouge, she comments that "They come, they leave, they die". It may be entirely possible that Toriel seen more than seven other children, judging by how many shoes are in the box in her house.

Do you think that there were only eight fallen humans? Or would you like to add more evidence to support this claim? What are your opinions?

[DanEgbert]

Originalmente postado por sebastian.mcintyre1:

Originalmente postado por twilkins:

wait than how will asgore capture your soul if it instantly shatters when you die

SCIEEENCE!!!!!

Originalmente postado por danman3210:

Originalmente postado por twilkins:

wait than how will asgore capture your soul if it instantly shatters when you die

Did you read at all? I said that the SOULs that Asgore got must have been Magician's bloodline or something because no way 7 regular human SOULs will make a god like "The God Of Hyperdeath". I said there could have been 100 fallen humans, just only the six were strong enough not to shatter.

[Sekkuar666]

Originalmente postado por Swarzshanaggen:

Asgore has 6 souls, including chara's

But Asriel absorbed Chara's soul.

[DanEgbert]

Originalmente postado por Sekkuar666:

Originalmente postado por Swarzshanaggen:

Asgore has 6 souls, including chara's

But Asriel absorbed Chara's soul.

And that combined SOUL shattered when Asriel died.

[Mnooper]

For the sans fight being rough, you dont need to think it
you need to play it
see my theory post about the glowing eye for details

[kingofweird]

Originalmente postado por danman3210:

Originalmente postado por Sekkuar666:

But Asriel absorbed Chara's soul.

And that combined SOUL shattered when Asriel died.

yes. but it's pretty widely regarded that the combined soul somehow, through the power of DETERMINATION, became Flowey. that's standard knowledge.

Asgore doesn't have CHARA's soul, it is part of FLOWEY, which then kills Asgore. There must have been(at least) eight, including CHARA and FRISK. Asgore owns six, FLOWEY owns one, and FRISK has their own. #MATHS. #QED

[Spectrum]

Originalmente postado por kingofweird:

Originalmente postado por danman3210:

And that combined SOUL shattered when Asriel died.

yes. but it's pretty widely regarded that the combined soul somehow, through the power of DETERMINATION, became Flowey. that's standard knowledge.

Asgore doesn't have CHARA's soul, it is part of FLOWEY, which then kills Asgore. There must have been(at least) eight, including CHARA and FRISK. Asgore owns six, FLOWEY owns one, and FRISK has their own. #MATHS. #QED

Actually, Flowey doesn't have a soul. We don't know what exactly happened to Chara's soul after Asriel died.
Asriel's dust went all over Asgore's garden, then later, Alphys injected the first golden flower that grew there with Determination, and that flower became Flowey. (well, at least that's what seems to have happened)

[NotKoji]

Human souls don't persist forever after death, just longer than monster souls do, because of there determination. Through the help of the royal scientists they were able to make containers to preserve them. It's entirely possible that floweys good ol freindlyness pellets could have killed hundreds of humans before toriel got to them, and without the proper stuff, the soul would have perished. Why else would ashore have an empty container ready?
This also explains why we don't see the souls hanging around after the fight with Asriel on pacifist.

[STMSystem]

Originalmente postado por donutz10:

Human souls don't persist forever after death, just longer than monster souls do, because of there determination. Through the help of the royal scientists they were able to make containers to preserve them. It's entirely possible that floweys good ol freindlyness pellets could have killed hundreds of humans before toriel got to them, and without the proper stuff, the soul would have perished. Why else would ashore have an empty container ready?
This also explains why we don't see the souls hanging around after the fight with Asriel on pacifist.

That is a great theor, I thought the jars were used to prevent the SOULs from being absorbed or damaged and that given the bodies also disapear at the pacifist end that the SOULs from the jars were in a good enough condition to go back into the preserved bodies.

[Knightly]

Yeah, that shattering on death thing always bugged me - why don't the other souls shatter when yours does whenever you die?

[STMSystem]

Originalmente postado por mnmega:

Yeah, that shattering on death thing always bugged me - why don't the other souls shatter when yours does whenever you die?

considering the flavor text and stuff Chara is attached to Frisks SOUL, when their HP hits 0 their SOUL chunks seperate from how they were atached.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

It's possible that because Chara/Frisk have the trait of Determination, that Chara purposely shatters the SOUL when Frisk dies just so the monsters can't take it. Then, they reset.

The other human souls, not having the power of determination, could be easily taken by Asgore and his guards.

A topic you've yet to discuss is the armor sets and the SOUL portions of the Photoshop Flowey fight and their connections to the human SOULs.

Stick/Bandage = Frisk
Toy Knife/Ribbon = Patience SOUL
Tough Glove/Manly Bandana = Bravery SOUL
Ballet Shoes/Dusty Tutu = Integrity SOUL
Torn Notebook/Cloudy Glasses = Perserverance SOUL
Burnt Pan/Stained Apron = Kindness SOUL
Empty Gun/Cowboy Hat = Justice SOUL
Locket/Dagger = Asriel and Chara

A point towards there being more humans could be the unlimited supply of some of these items sold in the shops.

[DanEgbert]

Originalmente postado por (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

It's possible that because Chara/Frisk have the trait of Determination, that Chara purposely shatters the SOUL when Frisk dies just so the monsters can't take it. Then, they reset.

The other human souls, not having the power of determination, could be easily taken by Asgore and his guards.

A topic you've yet to discuss is the armor sets and the SOUL portions of the Photoshop Flowey fight and their connections to the human SOULs.

Stick/Bandage = Frisk
Toy Knife/Ribbon = Patience SOUL
Tough Glove/Manly Bandana = Bravery SOUL
Ballet Shoes/Dusty Tutu = Integrity SOUL
Torn Notebook/Cloudy Glasses = Perserverance SOUL
Burnt Pan/Stained Apron = Kindness SOUL
Empty Gun/Cowboy Hat = Justice SOUL
Locket/Dagger = Asriel and Chara

A point towards there being more humans could be the unlimited supply of some of these items sold in the shops.

True, but I wanted to mostly discuss why it would make sense for their to be more than 8 humans, as they could have shattered upon death (like monsters), just the fact that the 8 humans that we know of had enough DT to persist.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Determination isn't what causes human SOULs to persist after death, as not all humans have it as their SOUL trait. Human souls just persist naturally.

What determination does is give one the ability to negate an opponent's attack, for instance when you are dodging the bullet hell attacks, or viewing it from the other side, when FIGHTing the amalgamates and Asriel and the attack always misses. As another example, when Undyne becomes Undyne the Undying, she undoes the killing blow you just gave her. However, you still have more determination than she does allowing you to still be able to beat her. With enough determination you can negate the effects of time itself, allowing you to go back in time to a previous point which is what reseting is.

[Supreme™ [Kef]]

Originalmente postado por (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Determination isn't what causes human SOULs to persist after death, as not all humans have it as their SOUL trait. Human souls just persist naturally.

What determination does is give one the ability to negate an opponent's attack, for instance when you are dodging the bullet hell attacks, or viewing it from the other side, when FIGHTing the amalgamates and Asriel and the attack always misses. As another example, when Undyne becomes Undyne the Undying, she undoes the killing blow you just gave her. However, you still have more determination than she does allowing you to still be able to beat her. With enough determination you can negate the effects of time itself, allowing you to go back in time to a previous point which is what reseting is.

What if determination is what causes persistence, but every soul has it? Just because determination isn't the primary trait of the other souls, doesn't mean it's not present.

[qtpyepeeka]

Maybe most human souls are mixed, but the humans that fell were less mixed. Basically other humans would have a mix between all of the soul traits, but the ones that fell were more pure in justice perservance etc.