The Noelle problem and other stuff. (Deltarune)

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

We remember the cute and wacky arch from Undertale Alphys and Undyne a relationship. It was funny cute and seemed thought out. However with Deltarune it seems like set up for something we already saw. A tough girl with a quiet shy girl. Sure they're fundelmentally different characters Susie and Noelle and it's not impossible but I'm going to explain why in my opinion this seems like a bad idea.

1. Cannon wise it's illogical.

Susie is a bully. Kids fear her for yes her threats and mannerisms rather than actions. But none the less a bully. Why under any circumstances would the nice girl have any romantic interest in a bully and it's not like Susie mentions how nice Noelle is. In fact she out right states she didn't have friends before Kris Raisei and Lancer.

We seen it before.

Again Undertale did the same thing. With thought put into it instead of being put in as a after thought. Not to mention the fact that in Deltarune Alphys and Undyne are not in a relationship setting everything back to square one. Why would we have the same scenario twice in the same game?

It just doesn't fit with the tone.

Unlike its predecessor Deltarune as emphasis on the lack of choice rather than the amount of choice. Who cares if Noelle and Susie are together if my say doesn't mean anything. The story is lighter than Undertale and doesn't have a huge feeling of risk. Unlike Undertale it felt nice to go back and hang out with your new friends or make friends because you have a life or death battle with the King of Monsters. Unlike Deltarune where everyone is more accepting or fine of the world they live in (Ralsei and is an exception) if everything is light hearted even the quest why add more light fluff?

Other options were possible.

Stated from the previous Undyne and Alphys are in the game and the two knights. So Again why make a new romance plot when one is right there on a silver platter.

Conclusion

This is all small potatoes in the Grand sceme of things and I trust that Toby and Temmie will make a great game and a well polished story.

What do you think?

Add me if you wanna directly talk about it or whatever

UPDATE-Changed the name because it was kinda bad.

[J00K]

Krusie Superior, Suselle Inferior

[rorgfist]

The canon doesnt set for that, theres is not a single hint about susie being even slightly interested in noelle.

So far at least, its only noelle the one interested in susie.

[slothmama]

Meh, I think it's too early to say since we don't even know where the story is even gonna go from here. It's kind of unfair to compare Suselle with Alphyne and the Royal Guards since we already have prior knowledge on what their relationships are like in Undertale and Deltarune isn't even a complete game! Even if it's currently a game with a lighter tone in comparison - with how the first chapter ended, the story could shift in any direction at this point.

There's already a few sidequests lining up - between Toriel+Asgore's divorce, hanging out with Papyrus, Mettaton's Crippling self-image issues, Catty + Bratty's dislike with one another, possible Alphyne shenanigans - I personally don't see how adding Noelle's crush on Susie into the mix is any worse off. If anything, I thought it'd be nice to help Susie make more friends and have Kris become actual friends with Noelle. Plus, like, it's not like there can't be more homosexual ships just because there's already some that exist.

I'd personally argue that teenage crushes aren't exactly be logical to begin with so there really isn't any point in trying to make out any sense with hormones and whatnot.

Though, for the sake of the argument, I'll try to reason out Noelle's crush on Susie.

In all honesty, it just seems like Noelle's attracted to the mystery surrounding Susie than anything. Like you said, she's a nice girl, so of course she wouldn't immediately buy into the bad rumors surrounding Susie. Whether Susie has legitimately bullied anyone from her school other than Kris could actually be up to debate considering how Monster Kid's only account of Susie was about her awkwardly wanting to play ball with the other kids but screwed up her chance by hitting Undyne's car with the ball when it rolled towards her. And it doesn't really help that Susie moreorless keeps to herself. She'd like to become her friend and find out for herself, but she's painfully shy. She'd think of what-ifs and imagine all kinds of things, since that seems to be what she tends to do when you talk to her about Susie, and... well, it kinda changed from curiosity to fascination to a full-blown crush.

And she's got it pretty bad if she admits to actually liking the idea of getting slammed against lockers if you tell her that Susie bullied you lmao

Does it sound rather shallow? Well. Yeah. Again, we're dealing with teenagers here.

But that does that make it out to be a Bad thing? Not really, there's much room for development and where that could go from there. Could be good or bad depending on your choices, but relationships of any kind are one of many ways to develop a character.

Even if the game likes to say how much our choices don't matter, whether that statement is true is questionable at best. That's like saying Flowey's motto of "It's KILL or BE KILLED" is the Holy Gospel of Undertale since the narrative in the beginning pushes you into believing that statement despite the fact that you are capable of sparing literally anyone that comes your way.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by slothmama:

Meh, I think it's too early to say since we don't even know where the story is even gonna go from here. It's kind of unfair to compare Suselle with Alphyne and the Royal Guards since we already have prior knowledge on what their relationships are like in Undertale and Deltarune isn't even a complete game! Even if it's currently a game with a lighter tone in comparison - with how the first chapter ended, the story could shift in any direction at this point.

There's already a few sidequests lining up - between Toriel+Asgore's divorce, hanging out with Papyrus, Mettaton's Crippling self-image issues, Catty + Bratty's dislike with one another, possible Alphyne shenanigans - I personally don't see how adding Noelle's crush on Susie into the mix is any worse off. If anything, I thought it'd be nice to help Susie make more friends and have Kris become actual friends with Noelle. Plus, like, it's not like there can't be more homosexual ships just because there's already some that exist.

I'd personally argue that teenage crushes aren't exactly be logical to begin with so there really isn't any point in trying to make out any sense with hormones and whatnot.

Though, for the sake of the argument, I'll try to reason out Noelle's crush on Susie.

In all honesty, it just seems like Noelle's attracted to the mystery surrounding Susie than anything. Like you said, she's a nice girl, so of course she wouldn't immediately buy into the bad rumors surrounding Susie. Whether Susie has legitimately bullied anyone from her school other than Kris could actually be up to debate considering how Monster Kid's only account of Susie was about her awkwardly wanting to play ball with the other kids but screwed up her chance by hitting Undyne's car with the ball when it rolled towards her. And it doesn't really help that Susie moreorless keeps to herself. She'd like to become her friend and find out for herself, but she's painfully shy. She'd think of what-ifs and imagine all kinds of things, since that seems to be what she tends to do when you talk to her about Susie, and... well, it kinda changed from curiosity to fascination to a full-blown crush.

And she's got it pretty bad if she admits to actually liking the idea of getting slammed against lockers if you tell her that Susie bullied you lmao

Does it sound rather shallow? Well. Yeah. Again, we're dealing with teenagers here. :ritonaworried:

But that does that make it out to be a Bad thing? Not really, there's much room for development and where that could go from there. Could be good or bad depending on your choices, but relationships of any kind are one of many ways to develop a character.

Even if the game likes to say how much our choices don't matter, whether that statement is true is questionable at best. That's like saying Flowey's motto of "It's KILL or BE KILLED" is the Holy Gospel of Undertale since the narrative in the beginning pushes you into believing that statement despite the fact that you are capable of sparing literally anyone that comes your way.

Pardon me for being rather forward with this but. Kris seems like they rather slit throats and getting a jackoloppe and lizard licking "slits." Jokes aside I like the idea of a fascination rather than a attraction seems more flexible. But Deltarune seems set in stone with its policy of a single outcome with the endings of both "play styles" being basically the same. I'm not against a possible new couple I'm just saying that we already see that type. (Tough with a soft spot and nice shy and we'll meaning) perhaps Susie will develop more and Noelle maybe this will be left to the way said because the Noelle dialogue options are completely optional. Putting the question. Is this potential arch optional? This stems from a issue outside of this discussion of arches bring optional

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by Assriel Creemurr:

Krusie Superior, Suselle Inferior

Must be some underling fetish.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

The hell do you mean Deltarune has a “lighter tone” than Undertale?

Within the first chapter we already have a potential doomsday scenario, two characters that are actually evil (one of which threatens throwing their own son off of a building and means it), and the main character has PTSD.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

The hell do you mean Deltarune has a “lighter tone” than Undertale?

Within the first chapter we already have a potential doomsday scenario, two characters that are actually evil (one of which threatens throwing their own son off of a building and means it), and the main character has PTSD.

Did you forgot about the whole nice life and suburban life they have? Or the fact nobody cares about the "doomsday scenario" and yeah it has dark stuff but it's drim compared to the dark stuff in Undertale. (In the pacifist and no mercy run) Kris is a kid with normal problems (aside from possible schizophrenia) and the world reflects that. It's light with a small dark undertones.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

The hell do you mean Deltarune has a “lighter tone” than Undertale?

Within the first chapter we already have a potential doomsday scenario, two characters that are actually evil (one of which threatens throwing their own son off of a building and means it), and the main character has PTSD.

Did you forgot about the whole nice life and suburban life they have? Or the fact nobody cares about the "doomsday scenario" and yeah it has dark stuff but it's drim compared to the dark stuff in Undertale. (In the pacifist and no mercy run) Kris is a kid with normal problems (aside from possible schizophrenia) and the world reflects that. It's light with a small dark undertones.

So? But you’re comparing all of Undertale to what’s only the first part of Deltarune. Unless you’re on the genocide route, there isn’t much dark tone at all, let alone up to Snowdin (Which would be about the equivalent progress between the two games). Also dark subject matters don’t always equal dark tone. While there are dark things that are implied in Undertale, the game overall is very hopeful always pushing you to be better.

In Deltarune, the game doesn’t care what you do, it will always end the same. There is no hope for a good outcome.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Did you forgot about the whole nice life and suburban life they have? Or the fact nobody cares about the "doomsday scenario" and yeah it has dark stuff but it's drim compared to the dark stuff in Undertale. (In the pacifist and no mercy run) Kris is a kid with normal problems (aside from possible schizophrenia) and the world reflects that. It's light with a small dark undertones.

So? But you’re comparing all of Undertale to what’s only the first part of Deltarune. Unless you’re on the genocide route, there isn’t much dark tone at all, let alone up to Snowdin (Which would be about the equivalent progress between the two games). Also dark subject matters don’t always equal dark tone. While there are dark things that are implied in Undertale, the game overall is very hopeful always pushing you to be better.

In Deltarune, the game doesn’t care what you do, it will always end the same. There is no hope for a good outcome.

Fair point I'll give you that but this is beside the original discussion. But thank you for your excellent input.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by Assriel Creemurr:

Krusie Superior, Suselle Inferior

Krisie sounds better

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Originally posted by Assriel Creemurr:

Krusie Superior, Suselle Inferior

Krisie sounds better

Nosie or Noelsie?

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Krisie sounds better

Nosie or Noelsie?

Suoel pronounce it like soul it's cuter you gotta make it sound nice

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Nosie or Noelsie?

Suoel pronounce it like soul it's cuter you gotta make it sound nice

That would be pronounced more like “swell”. And Nosie is kinda cute.

[Cream & Cheese #Buffthebrick]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Suoel pronounce it like soul it's cuter you gotta make it sound nice

That would be pronounced more like “swell”. And Nosie is kinda cute.

Sounds like nosey you know what stop shipping the jackoloppe and lizard it's not working

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Roxy Rudy:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

That would be pronounced more like “swell”. And Nosie is kinda cute.

Sounds like nosey you know what stop shipping the jackoloppe and lizard it's not working

I’m pretty sure she’s a reindeer given the Christmas motif, and her dad’s name is Rudolf (Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer).