Who is "The Knight" in DELTARUNE?

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

So a big bad is revealed in Chapter 1 as this "strange knight" that imprisoned 3 of the Kings, and can create the dark fountains. I've been thinking about this myself, and was curious as to what others' thoughts were.

I guess I'll start off by saying a few characters we can already rule out as NOT being the Knight.

Jevil: He seems likely to not be relevant to the story other than foreshadowing, and directly refers to the Knight as someone else. He also mentions a Queen. The Knight is also NOT the strange person Jevil met, as Seam knows who the Knight is, but not who talked to Jevil. The Knight also only appeared recently, whereas the event with Jevil happened long ago.

King of Spades: Like Jevil, he mentions the Knight as being another character. Seam also says the Knight and the King essentially put each other in charge.

Lancer: Seam says, "The remaining king put him and his strange son into power." This can be read either two ways. The "him" refers to the knight that locked the other 3 kings away, as Seam states in his previous sentence. The "him" could also be the King of Spades refering to himself, though why Toby didn't use "himself" in this case is rather odd. In either scenario, Lancer is shown as a character separate from the Knight, so we can rule him out. If the "him" does refer to the Knight however, this would also rule out any female character or the Vessel (which would assumingly have no gender).

Susie: Susie has never been to the Dark World before, and no one recognizers her.

Kris: Kris cannot be the Knight either, due to the fact that the Kings and Lancer would recognize him immediately. (Ch. 2 Edit) Yes, the ending makes it seem that they are the Knight, but he also gained some other information that seems to suggests otherwise.

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As for who I think are likely candidates. . .

Ralsei, Seam, Gaster, Asriel, the Vessel, or a new character.

Ralsei: Fluffy boy seems like the most likely candidate to be the Knight for me. Not only would the most seemingly passive character being the villain, and Susie the most aggressive character becoming the hero be the kind of expectation subversion we'd expect, but chapter 1 seems just chock-full of little details that can make you question Ralsei's motives.

For starters, you find him alone in an abandoned town with a dark fountain, the things the Knight can create, that was also sealed by a giant door for some reason, which is also suggested that Lancer is the only one allowed to enter said town.

Ralsei disguises himself the entire game, only revealing his face to Kris and Susie, the only people who couldn't possibly know the knight's appearance. He also heals the King after you defeat him in BOTH endings.

The entire prophecy's credibility hinges upon the fact that we assume Ralsei isn't evil, since he's the one who tells us the prophecy to begin with. Not to mention Lancer actually is a "Prince from the Dark", whereas we only can take Ralsei's claim of being a prince at face value.

Ralsei is likely Deltarune's variation of Flowey, since Asriel can't be him since he's still alive in this universe. Ralsei also says the "that heart is your SOUL, the very culmination of your being" line just like Flowey in Undertale. He also seems to be aware that the world is a game like Jevil, knowing more about game mechanics than even the tutorial puzzle guys.

(Ch 2 Edit) Alright, Ralsei has been crossed from the list as now we know that the Knight must be a Lightner, or at least have the determination of a Lightner. His motivations also seem to oppose those of the Knight. Ralsei is very suspicious and definitely hiding some dark secrets about the world of deltarune, but he is not the Knight.

Seam: Seam also seems like a potential identity for the Knight, always talking negatively about the world's inevitable fate. He also oddly doesn't appear in the pacifist ending. The only real thing against Seam being the Knight is the fact that the ragdoll that represents him appears in the abandoned class, making it seem like he won't appear in later chapters. I also personally suspect he might be one of several avatars for Dr. Gaster that may appear throughout the full game.

(Ch 2 Edit) Again Seam is a Darkner so he is off the suspect list.

Gaster: I personally don't think Gaster is the Knight, but he is associated with darkness. Gaster just seems more of a "in the background" sort of schemer, not the direct approach being the Knight would likely entail.

Asriel: Sorry MatPat, I don't think Asriel is the Knight either. For one, the Knight will likely show up sooner in the story than Asriel would be able to. Also Asriel technically wasn't the angel in Undertale, Flowey was. Again Ralsei is more likely Deltarune's variant of Flowey. Also given what we know of Asriel in Deltarune, him being the Knight does not fit his character. I could see Kris imagining a fake Asriel betraying him, but again that would be Ralsei, THE FAKE ASRIEL, not his actual brother.

Vessel: This would be more from a game perspective sort of thing, kinda like Chara in Undertale, which is why I do find this probably the most likely candidate behind fluffy prince. Also apparently this would be similar to Moon: Remix RPG Adventure, one of the games that inspired Toby to make Undertale.

A new character: Need I say more?

(Chapter 2 Edit)

Ok so with the release of chapter 2 and after watching several playthroughs and skimming through theories and wiki pages, I have come to the conclusion that the Knight is 100% going to be Noelle's missing older sister, Dess/December. I will probably make a thread about this at some point in the Deltarune discussions. So it seems "new character" was the correct option.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

I wouldn’t completely write Gaster being the knight off completely as “bad writing”, because he clearly has some kind of presence in the game. Even if he’s not the Knight, he’s an important character of some kind, much more than he was in Undertale. My best bet though is that the Kight is some new character that will be revealed in the full game.

I just can’t see Ralsei being the Knight. Yes, he’s Asriel’s counterpart, and yes, his line in reference to talking about the player’s soul is a callback to Flowey’s same line in Undertale, but I don’t think he’s the Knight. If he was, why would the King attack him or not instantly recognise him as the Knight as soon as he saw him? If anyone should know what the Knight looks like, it should be the King, and Lancer, since the Knight is the one who put them in power in the first place, according to Seam.

Yes, i think gaster will have an important presence too, i wouldnt be surprised if he created the knight, or altered him like he altered jevil, but i dont think he is the knight in the flesh.

Yes, as i already mentioned, im absolutely sure ralsei isnt the knight.

[Sp4rt4n1295]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

I wouldn’t completely write Gaster being the knight off completely as “bad writing”, because he clearly has some kind of presence in the game. Even if he’s not the Knight, he’s an important character of some kind, much more than he was in Undertale. My best bet though is that the Kight is some new character that will be revealed in the full game.

I just can’t see Ralsei being the Knight. Yes, he’s Asriel’s counterpart, and yes, his line in reference to talking about the player’s soul is a callback to Flowey’s same line in Undertale, but I don’t think he’s the Knight. If he was, why would the King attack him or not instantly recognise him as the Knight as soon as he saw him? If anyone should know what the Knight looks like, it should be the King, and Lancer, since the Knight is the one who put them in power in the first place, according to Seam.

Yes, i think gaster will have an important presence too, i wouldnt be surprised if he created the knight, or altered him like he altered jevil, but i dont think he is the knight in the flesh.

Yes, as i already mentioned, im absolutely sure ralsei isnt the knight.

At least we can agree on this, haha.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

why would the King attack him or not instantly recognise him as the Knight as soon as he saw him? If anyone should know what the Knight looks like, it should be the King, and Lancer, since the Knight is the one who put them in power in the first place, according to Seam.

Because Ralsei has his entire face covered by his hat. Toby points this out by having him reveal his face to Kris and Susie once the people who do know the Knight (the 4 Kings, Lancer, and Seam) are not present.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

It cant be ralsei.

The knight is an extremely powerful being that can defeat all 4 kings at once, ralsei is weaker than weak, his “ok” magical capabilioties are his only redeeming qualities to have him in team, and he absolutely lacks any kind of offensive power.
Also, Jevil quotes the knigh at being far faster and stronger than the whole team, team that includes ralsei……

This isn't really a good case to argue against the Knight being a character that we know, as they would obviously just be hiding their abilities.

As for the bit with Jevil, he says.

"HA HA HA. WHAT FUN!!! YOU'RE FAST, FAST, STRONG, STRONG. BUT THERE ARE YET FASTER, YET STRONGER. THE HAND OF THE KNIGHT IS DRIFTING FORWARD. SOON, THE "QUEEN" RETURNS, AND HELL'S ROAR BUBBLES FROM THE DEPTHS... LIGHTNERS, CAN YOU STOP IT? UEE HEE HEE! EITHER WAY, A MISCHIEF-MISCHIEF, A CHAOS-CHAOS...! LIGHTNERS! FROM INSIDE YOUR LITTLE CELL!! TAKE ME AND DO YOUR STRONGEST---!"

He doesn't technically say the Knight themself is faster and stronger, but that there are more powerful enemies that will be revealed due to the Knight's schemes ("the hand of the Knight is drifting forward").

It's also kind of weird that the entire group is referred to as "Lightners" when Ralsei isn't one. Jevil isn't the only character that does that. I don't know if it really means anything, but it is a weird thing to point out.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

why would the King attack him or not instantly recognise him as the Knight as soon as he saw him? If anyone should know what the Knight looks like, it should be the King, and Lancer, since the Knight is the one who put them in power in the first place, according to Seam.

Because Ralsei has his entire face covered by his hat. Toby points this out by having him reveal his face to Kris and Susie once the people who do know the Knight (the 4 Kings, Lancer, and Seam) are not present.

So?
He cant mask his size, his complexion, and you can see the fur and the goat-like ears in the dark

If ralsei was the knight, the king would have effortlessly recognized him despite the hat.
The hat mask nothing but the color of the fur, and thats pretty much it.

The glasses are the same, the shape is the same, the ears, the muzzle.....

[Sp4rt4n1295]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Because Ralsei has his entire face covered by his hat. Toby points this out by having him reveal his face to Kris and Susie once the people who do know the Knight (the 4 Kings, Lancer, and Seam) are not present.

So?
He cant mask his size, his complexion, and you can see the fur and the goat-like ears in the dark

If ralsei was the knight, the king would have effortlessly recognized him despite the hat.
The hat mask nothing but the color of the fur, and thats pretty much it.

The glasses are the same, the shape is the same, the ears, the muzzle.....

And his voice is still the same even when he takes off his hat, so the King could’ve recognized him by his voice when he tried to reason with him. Besides, why would Ralsei put the King in power just to kick him out of it?

[Cronotekk]

that isnt undertale stupid idiot

[Sp4rt4n1295]

Originally posted by Cronotekk:

that isnt undertale stupid idiot

Deltarune is still a Toby Fox game, and since it isn’t released yet, it doesn’t have an official Steam page, so any Deltarune discussion is held here until it gets one.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

Originally posted by rorgfist:

So?
He cant mask his size, his complexion, and you can see the fur and the goat-like ears in the dark

If ralsei was the knight, the king would have effortlessly recognized him despite the hat.
The hat mask nothing but the color of the fur, and thats pretty much it.

The glasses are the same, the shape is the same, the ears, the muzzle.....

And his voice is still the same even when he takes off his hat, so the King could’ve recognized him by his voice when he tried to reason with him. Besides, why would Ralsei put the King in power just to kick him out of it?

Yeah, and his voice too.
the game never states or even hints that his voice changes.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

And his voice is still the same even when he takes off his hat, so the King could’ve recognized him by his voice when he tried to reason with him. Besides, why would Ralsei put the King in power just to kick him out of it?

Yeah, and his voice too.
the game never states or even hints that his voice changes.

I'm just trying to justify my thought process on why I think Ralsei could be the Knight. I don't really want this to become a thread about "Is Ralsei the Knight or Not". The truth of the matter is, we haven't met the Knight yet, so we don't really have a frame of reference on to what exactly these other characters know about them, or the Knight's appearance. The Knight could wear a mask/helmet that covers their face and distorts their voice, which they probably will if their identity is meant to be a twist. The Knight could be a shapeshifter. The Knight's plan might require Kris to do something for them in order to execute it. The Knight might not even be real. We just don't know yet.

My thoughts on Ralsei being the Knight really just come down to.
1: I think having a playable party member be revealed to be the big villain is an interesting story concept that hasn't been explored in many RPGs.
2: Him betraying Kris would follow the theme of abandonment which the story already seems to setting up, and would make him a direct analog to Kris's fears regarding his brother leaving him behind for bigger and better things. This would also work as a feeling of abandonment towards the player, because we also trust Ralsei, and if he turned out to be the Knight this would effect our entire understanding of the game's mechanics. If Ralsei is also Asriel's OC from when he and Kris played together, Ralsei could also be targetting aggression towards Asriel for growing up and abandoning him. Also there's this mention of an evil Queen, and this could be Ralsei's mother, who knows?
3: Should it be revealed that Ralsei is the Knight, the obvious plot hole of "shouldn't these characters know that he's the Knight" can be explained away by the face reveal.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Also another thing that would be neat if Ralsei is the Knight is the use of "Empty Town" in the King of Spade's battle music.

It would give it a double meaning of sorts. On one hand, it could represent the Heroes victory over the King as it's used at the end of the "Legend". On the other hand, the theme is also closely associated with Ralsei, and the King talks about the Knight throughout the battle. So if Ralsei is the Knight, the theme's use could also show the King's devotion to the Knight's cause.

[Sp4rt4n1295]

I suppose you’re right. We don’t know who this mysterious Knight is, and all we can really do until the game fully comes out is speculate. I will say though, even though I don’t fully agree with it, the idea of Ralsei being the Knight is quite interesting and would definitely be a great plot twist.

Maybe it’s just me not wanting to believe that our favorite (well my second favorite since I still prefer Asriel) fluffy boi could betray us after what we managed to accomplish in Chapter 1. Maybe it’s just me wanting Gaster to play a bigger role in everything since this game seems to be hinting at him having much more involvement than in Undertale. Either way, I think Toby will do great with the story, and I can’t wait to see what Deltarune, the full game, has to offer. I think we can all agree on that!

[BreakinBenny]

Ralsei being the Knight would practically be repeating the thing about Flowey and Asriel being one and the same... which would be pretty boring and predictable.

[Cronotekk]

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

Originally posted by Cronotekk:

that isnt undertale stupid idiot

Deltarune is still a Toby Fox game, and since it isn’t released yet, it doesn’t have an official Steam page, so any Deltarune discussion is held here until it gets one.

What does a dumb rpg that looks like undertale have to do with undertale? It's not even called Undertale 2

[Smithsiblings4]

Originally posted by Cronotekk:

Originally posted by Sp4rt4n1295:

Deltarune is still a Toby Fox game, and since it isn’t released yet, it doesn’t have an official Steam page, so any Deltarune discussion is held here until it gets one.

What does a dumb rpg that looks like undertale have to do with undertale? It's not even called Undertale 2

it doesn't have to be called "Undertale 2" it's not a direct sequel it doesn't even take place in the same world, however, it does have UT characters in it, and it's being developed by Toby Fox, it also has the UT combat system. just because it's not the same game, that doesn't mean that we can't discuss it here