Why doesn't Sans stop you from killing Papyrus?

[Tea Thief]

Seems kinda odd. Even though he probably feels it's futile you'd think he'd do something.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by blowheaded:

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Papyrus could be easily manipulate to go "save alphys" or that "the king needs the help of the great papyrus urgently" and papyrus wouldnt have questioned it.

If sans wanted papyrus out of snowding, he could have done it easily.

Do you really think Papyrus stay there. Papyrus move 3 time faster then Frisk any way. Papyrus would call or check them or use the phone text message to find out. Also find out and think it is another sans prank and get mad again. Will rush back to looking for human any way. Sans did prank on his brother more then once. There is a chance he would not fell for it.

First thing first, yes, if undyne or asgore gives him a direct order, he, as a proud sentry (and guard in training) would obey, 100% sure. Also, he wont deny alphys help if she asks him, which she would do to save his life without a doubt.

So yes, he would have stayed, no doubt about it. And knowing a killer is on the loose that ahve already decimated the entire canine guard, im absolutely sure undyne or asgore would play along.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Because he knows he couldn’t stop either of them, that you can reset time, and he made a promise to Toriel not to harm any human that leaves the ruins. Also it would make Sans a hypocrite. Lastly, there’s always the possibility that you could change your mind and spare him. Because of his promise, he hopes this is what you’ll do.

At the end of the entire genocide, he is pretty convinced that its you, as he measured several timelines starting and stopping recently, (his words are "thats your fault, isnt it")

At the beginning of the game, you dont need to continue frecuently, and thus, he cant get readings that doesnt exists yet, and thus, its impossible for him to know.

Also, as i already said, he could have saved papyrus life without hurting the human or going into conflict with his promise, so Toriel´s promise is 100% irrelevant here.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Lastly, there’s always the possibility that you could change your mind and spare him. Because of his promise, he hopes this is what you’ll do.

Also, really? Frisk is (in genocide) a person who had exterminated any and all lifeforms he have encountered, and when he killed all of those he scanned and searched the zone till he was 100% sure there was absolutely no living being left to kill before continuing hsi quest of purging all life from the underground. And they are about to meet his brother.

IF sans were a good brother and/or person she wouldnt risk his brothers life that way "because he may have a sudden change of heart".

I will find that to be a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument if frisk had killed a dozen or so monsters, but in full genocide?

Your love for sans is absolutely clouding your judgement, because I absolutely refuse to think thats your nomal way of thinking

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by blowheaded:

Do you really think Papyrus stay there. Papyrus move 3 time faster then Frisk any way. Papyrus would call or check them or use the phone text message to find out. Also find out and think it is another sans prank and get mad again. Will rush back to looking for human any way. Sans did prank on his brother more then once. There is a chance he would not fell for it.

First thing first, yes, if undyne or asgore gives him a direct order, he, as a proud sentry (and guard in training) would obey, 100% sure. Also, he wont deny alphys help if she asks him, which she would do to save his life without a doubt.

So yes, he would have stayed, no doubt about it. And knowing a killer is on the loose that ahve already decimated the entire canine guard, im absolutely sure undyne or asgore would play along.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Because he knows he couldn’t stop either of them, that you can reset time, and he made a promise to Toriel not to harm any human that leaves the ruins. Also it would make Sans a hypocrite. Lastly, there’s always the possibility that you could change your mind and spare him. Because of his promise, he hopes this is what you’ll do.

At the end of the entire genocide, he is pretty convinced that its you, as he measured several timelines starting and stopping recently, (his words are "thats your fault, isnt it")

At the beginning of the game, you dont need to continue frecuently, and thus, he cant get readings that doesnt exists yet, and thus, its impossible for him to know.

Also, as i already said, he could have saved papyrus life without hurting the human or going into conflict with his promise, so Toriel´s promise is 100% irrelevant here.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Lastly, there’s always the possibility that you could change your mind and spare him. Because of his promise, he hopes this is what you’ll do.

Also, really? Frisk is (in genocide) a person who had exterminated any and all lifeforms he have encountered, and when he killed all of those he scanned and searched the zone till he was 100% sure there was absolutely no living being left to kill before continuing hsi quest of purging all life from the underground. And they are about to meet his brother.

IF sans were a good brother and/or person she wouldnt risk his brothers life that way "because he may have a sudden change of heart".

I will find that to be a really ♥♥♥♥♥♥ argument if frisk had killed a dozen or so monsters, but in full genocide?

Your love for sans is absolutely clouding your judgement, because I absolutely refuse to think thats your nomal way of thinking

I don't love Sans, I already told you. You're basing your dislike for things that don't and can't happen in the game. We have no way of knowing if Papyrus would believe Sans or not. We could argue endlessly about what Sans and Papyrus could have done, things that could go for or against your claims, but it doesn't matter. You can't base an argument on something that doesn't exist. There's no way of proving or disproving what would happen.

Yes, Sans knows without a doubt that you are the human that is going to destroy the world. He was going to kill you as soon as you arrived in Snowdin, but he doesn't because he promised Toriel he wouldn't kill any human that left the Ruins. If he did, there would NO WAY the pacifist ending could happen. You'd be forced to kill him, and then Undyne would not befriend you, since you can't if you kill anyone. (and this is going off game mechanics so this isn't blind guesswork as to what would happen) So by Sans learning trust from Toriel instead of basing everything on the facts he knows, good things are allowed to happen. So Sans learns a lesson if you do pacifist, but he doesn't if you do genocide. He trusts Toriel's judgment as a friend and doesn't want to hurt her, that is why he doesn't fight you unless absolutely necessary.

[Tea Thief]

Great, I indirectly started a war.

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by Puck:

Great, I indirectly started a war.

Ah, the sweet smell of chaos in the morning.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

I don't love Sans, I already told you. You're basing your dislike for things that don't and can't happen in the game.

Im bashing sans for not saving his brother when it would have been extremely easy to do.

Hell, not even that, im bashing sans because he never EVER tried to save his brother.

And Sans not even trying to save his brother is something that definitely happens in the game.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

We have no way of knowing if Papyrus would believe Sans or not.[...] There's no way of proving or disproving what would happen.

Actually, we do know if sans coudl have saved papyrus or not, and it can be proved, is quite easy.

Sans knows papyrus and undyne pretty well, the first is his brother, the second one is his boss.
This is canon, and you can easily check it in both the videogame and youtube.

Papyrus always obeys undyne, even when he dont really want to. This is something we know, something that appears in the game, and something that is totally canon.

Even when he befriend you he still report to undyne and, while he dont try to directly kill you, he keep ehr informed and, when she asked what the human is wearing, papyrus calls you and tells her what you are wearing. He diligently take care of the puzzles and, in general, is a pretty efficient and obedient guard.

If you want proof of this, just watch a undertale playthrough on youtube or open your UT game.

Undyne dont want to make papyrus a guard or to teach/let him fight because she know he would be tore to a million smiling shreds. Her exact words. This is somethign we know, its something 100% canon, and you can easily check that on youtube or the game too.

So sans could have told undyne about how the human was approaching snowding and to call papyrus off to "protect the king" or some other menial task (like she does when she is the queen) and papyrus, willing or not, believing it or not, would have inmediately obeyed.

And we actually know this, if you have played the game.

"But toriel´s promise...."

Sans dont have to breake his promise to toriel, not in the slightest.

Besides, thats a poor reasoning, Sans is way more attached to Papyrus that to some stranger he dont even know (he never knew toriels name or physical looks till the end of pacifist), so if conflicted with protecting his brother or honouring the promise to some stranger, even if he have fun with her, he should inmediately choose his brother. If not, thats on him.

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Yes, Sans knows without a doubt that you are the human that is going to destroy the world.

Interesting blatant lie you have there.
Can you provide some kind of factual proof about that?
Something? Even to generate a reasonable doubt?

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

He was going to kill you as soon as you arrived in Snowdin, but he doesn't because he promised Toriel he wouldn't kill any human that left the Ruins.

Actually, if he was 100% sure you can reset, he could have killed you no problem because then you can reset and go back to the point previous to him breaking the promise, and negotiate with you. (letting you pass ONLY if you behave, and keeping and eye on you)

So no, if he know you can reset, he know he cant kill you and thus, he can kill you without breaking his promise.

Also, that still dont justify him not saving papyrus without hurting you, or why he dont breake his promise to save his brother (his duty and responsability towards his brother should inmensely outweights those towards a stranger, and if not, thats a HUGE flaw, not a virtue)

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Yes, Sans knows without a doubt that you are the human that is going to destroy the world.

Interesting blatant lie you have there.
Can you provide some kind of factual proof about that?
Something? Even to generate a reasonable doubt?

He tells you on the little date in the MTT hotel.

“you know what would have happened if she hadn’t said anything? buddy, YOU’D BE DEAD WHERE YOU STAND.”

That and the whole “that’s your fault, isn’t it?” bit you brought up before where he says he’s seen that the world just ends.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Interesting blatant lie you have there.
Can you provide some kind of factual proof about that?
Something? Even to generate a reasonable doubt?

He tells you on the little date in the MTT hotel.

“you know what would have happened if she hadn’t said anything? buddy, YOU’D BE DEAD WHERE YOU STAND.”

Yes, because he, like all other guards and sentries, have to kill or capture any human they met, as soon as they meet them.

Not because he knew you were bad, or you were going to destroy the world, or anything like that.

I will repeat my question. Clarified.

Do you have any kind of factual proof about sans knowing you were evil since you crossed the ruins gate?, or knowing you will destroy the world?

EDIT: also, he never says or sees that the world will end, at the end of genocide he saw in the reports that timelines were starting and stopping ( you were saving and loading) HUGE difference

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

He tells you on the little date in the MTT hotel.

“you know what would have happened if she hadn’t said anything? buddy, YOU’D BE DEAD WHERE YOU STAND.”

Yes, because he, like all other guards and sentries, have to kill or capture any human they met, as soon as they meet them.

Not because he knew you were bad, or you were going to destroy the world, or anything like that.

I will repeat my question. Clarified.

Do you have any kind of factual proof about sans knowing you were evil since you crossed the ruins gate?, or knowing you will destroy the world?

EDIT: also, he never says or sees that the world will end, at the end of genocide he saw in the reports that timelines were starting and stopping ( you were saving and loading) HUGE difference

He says starting and stopping until eventually everything ends. Read the entire line before trying to argue.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by rorgfist:

Yes, because he, like all other guards and sentries, have to kill or capture any human they met, as soon as they meet them.

Not because he knew you were bad, or you were going to destroy the world, or anything like that.

I will repeat my question. Clarified.

Do you have any kind of factual proof about sans knowing you were evil since you crossed the ruins gate?, or knowing you will destroy the world?

EDIT: also, he never says or sees that the world will end, at the end of genocide he saw in the reports that timelines were starting and stopping ( you were saving and loading) HUGE difference

He says starting and stopping until eventually everything ends. Read the entire line before trying to argue.

Well true, that proves he actually know by the end of genocide.

Irrelevant for the whole "saving papyrus" debate, but i concede that.

[SonicCreeper21]

Originally posted by Puck:

Great, I indirectly started a war.

Well done. I'm not being sarcastic. Comment wars are fun.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by SonicCreeper21:

Originally posted by Puck:

Great, I indirectly started a war.

Well done. I'm not being sarcastic. Comment wars are fun.

Comment wars are always fun indeed

[Casual Amateur]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by Puck:

Great, I indirectly started a war.

Ah, the sweet smell of chaos in the morning.

Instead of me talk about your other day relpy. Instead... I going to ask you some thing. How ofter you use that Game Maker 2 any way? Did you made any game with it yet?

[(Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr]

Originally posted by blowheaded:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Ah, the sweet smell of chaos in the morning.

Instead of me talk about your other day relpy. Instead... I going to ask you some thing. How ofter you use that Game Maker 2 any way? Did you made any game with it yet?

You asking me?

[Casual Amateur]

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

Originally posted by blowheaded:

Instead of me talk about your other day relpy. Instead... I going to ask you some thing. How ofter you use that Game Maker 2 any way? Did you made any game with it yet?

You asking me?

Yip. I notice that you been talking about it few time on other thread last time. As if you do own it. If you don't have then never mind then.

[rorgfist]

Originally posted by blowheaded:

Originally posted by (Edgy) Asriel Dreemurr:

You asking me?

Yip. I notice that you been talking about it few time on other thread last time. As if you do own it. If you don't have then never mind then.

If he was talking about that in other thread, why dont you ask it there?