a question about soundfonts and not about toby fox getting sued to keep very rude people happy

[Lil Em]

lately i've been looking into undertale's much beloved OST, as it's a perplexity to me as to how it was made (and we'd all love to make music as good). where did the samples toby uses originate from? i've been told he used earthbound's "soundfont" a lot, ergo raw sounds ripped from earthbound. ok, cool, but wait, isn't that illegal? is there something i'm missing here? i don't know how much of UT's music was made through use of soundfonts, but i'm completely baffled. are people just jumping to conclusions and claiming that toby fox used soundfonts, or, did he get permission to use them (how?), or has he committed a serious crime (intentionally or not) that's been completely ignored?

not trolling or anything here, serious question and would love and appreciate an answer (even if it's just 'yeah he's a criminal' or 'ur dumbdumb it works like this').

[Nine]

No, it's a Soundfront

Anyone can use those.

End of discussion.

[Exarch_Alpha]

OP: go F yourself.

[DanEgbert]

It is not stealing if he has edited it to make it his own.
For example, Flowey's laugh and this https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2aBa-iQSkxc.
They are similar, but clearly very different. So this is not stealing.

There is a whole list here;
https://www.reddit.com/r/Undertale/comments/3na5n1/soundfontsample_list/?utm_source=amp&utm_medium=comment_list

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

OP: go F yourself.

He was asking a legitimate question though. That's a little harsh.

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

OP: go F yourself.

mfw jesus christ

i'm as big an undertale fan as there is going, i've been researching this lately and it confounds me. everything i find online says that the legality is at the very least 'questionable'. i appreciate the genuine responses.

[Felix]

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

OP: go F yourself.

He was asking a legitimate question though. That's a little harsh.

Yes, that was definitely harsher than needed.

That said, OP opened themselves up to that sort of reply when their thread title asks when the dev is getting sued... Not exactly the best choice for thread title.

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by PC Nine 🆅🅰🅻🆅🅴:

No, it's a Soundfront

Anyone can use those.

End of discussion.

there's much more of a discussion to be had and i'd appreciate some knowledgable answers here rather then whatever that's supposed to mean.

googling soundfonts leads me to this answer: "The sounds from the game would be part of the copyright on that game. You can't use them while the work is under copyright unless your use is covered by fair use or by a license from the company that holds the copyright. The exception to this would be if they licensed the audio from someone else, in which case you would have to obtain the license from whoever holds copyright of those assets."

ergo, sounds from earthbound are a part of earthbound's copyright, therefore not something you can adapt for your own project. i'm not accusing toby fox of anything, i'm not a share holder in retro games or something. i just want to know whether he made his music through soundfonts ripped from other games, whether he somehow obtained permission to do that, and if he didn't if it's illegal.

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by Victor Blackthorn:

Originally posted by Exarch_Alpha:

OP: go F yourself.

mfw jesus christ

i'm as big an undertale fan as there is going, i've been researching this lately and it confounds me. everything i find online says that the legality is at the very least 'questionable'. i appreciate the genuine responses.

As I stated above, it's legal if you edit the work enough so you can distinguish the two from each other. Like again, Flowey's laugh and the other maniacal laughing.

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by Frazer:

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

He was asking a legitimate question though. That's a little harsh.

Yes, that was definitely harsher than needed.

That said, OP opened themselves up to that sort of reply when their thread title asks when the dev is getting sued... Not exactly the best choice for thread title.

True. Could've thought of some much better, less click-baity titles.

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

As I stated above, it's legal if you edit the work enough so you can distinguish the two from each other. Like again, Flowey's laugh and the other maniacal laughing.

thanks for this response, i was under the impression that was the case - if you had a game's soundfont and somehow modified each sample, would they then be legal to use?

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

True. Could've thought of some much better, less click-baity titles.

i'm a somewhat popular youtuber (not linking my channel here) so sorry, it's a habit lol.

[DanEgbert]

Originally posted by Victor Blackthorn:

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

As I stated above, it's legal if you edit the work enough so you can distinguish the two from each other. Like again, Flowey's laugh and the other maniacal laughing.

thanks for this response, i was under the impression that was the case - if you had a game's soundfont and somehow modified each sample, would they then be legal to use?

If you only change one note or so, only add more to it, or remix it, then of course not. If you change it enough then yes, you could. I'm not sure about the threshold of how much you need to change it though.

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by ItsSuperNova:

If you only change one note or so, only add more to it, or remix it, then of course not. If you change it enough then yes, you could. I'm not sure about the threshold of how much you need to change it though.

deeply appreciated, the law is very grey on some of these matters and i feel like i need a degree in law at times (maybe i do?). i assume if toby used soundfonts then he transformed them to whatever the threshold is.

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by DudewingTodd花花公子托德:

Originally posted by Victor Blackthorn:

i'm a somewhat popular youtuber (not linking my channel here) so sorry, it's a habit lol.

I'm pretty sure nobody cares.

i have deep anxiety issues and i take pride in my one meagre achievement in this world, sorry man.
(also i thought it was funny but i guess you can't please everyone)

[Lil Em]

Originally posted by DudewingTodd花花公子托德:

And does nobody care? Yes.

i care tbh i'm an empathetic person which is a rare trait nowadays, so i hope you do well in life and your belief that no one cares about you doesn't drag you down. anyhow, enough about that, didn't mean to derail this (this is my first forum post in a few years or so for a reason).