Chara's Power Scaling

[DanEgbert]

I will be determining just about how strong Chara is.
I will say that a regular human is a 1, so I will see what Chara will be. Towards the end, it will be a little more than a shot in the dark. Please try to read, of not there is a TLDR at the end.

First, let's look at possible outcomes.
1. Chara destroyed the timeline. This is much harder to calculate.
2. Chara destroyed the game/the universe. This is much more easier to calculate.

Okay, so an average human uses 97 joules per second, and Chara did the attack in about 5-6 seconds, rounding to 5. So in 5 seconds, a human uses 582 joules of energy. So 582 is a 1.

To destroy the a galaxy, it would take 10 ^ 61 joules. That's a 1 with 61 0's. So if you divide this number with our base value, 582, that would be 1.7 * 10^59. So if a human is a 1, only destroying a galaxy would be a 1.7 * 10^59.

There are roughly 200 billion galaxies im the universe. So you take 10^61 and multiply it by 200 billion, making 2 * 10^72. Again, if we divide it by 582, it would make 3.4 * 10^69. So again, of you were to scale, if a human was a 1 on a number line, destroying the universe would at least be a 3.4 * 10^69. This would be the calculations if Chara destroyed the game/universe. Reminder: this is measured in joules.

Next is the timeline. This is way harder to measure, because you can't destroy time. However, you can slow down time, and maybe reverse it, if you go fast enough. Using the equation that I will link in the sources, I have figured out it would take 8 * 10^18 joules to go the speed of light in 1 second. So divide by 5 (for the 5 seconds) and you get that it takes 1.6 * 10^18 joules to travel the speed of light in 5 seconds, but we need to travel faster than that. I have no idea how much faster, but faster. I'll guess 2. So I take 1.6 * 10^18 and multiply by 2 to get 3.2 * 10^18. So take that and multiply that with the universe one, 2 * 10^72, that would make 6.4 * 10^90. That's the amount of energy it takes to destroy the entire timeline. Also, for the power scaling. If a human was a 1 on the number line, this would be a 1.09 * 10^90.

This was rushed, so there might be some mathematical or science mistakes in here.

Sources:

Speed of light: https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_Thinking/how_fast_is_the_speed.htm

Equation: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/calories-used-running.202986/
Note: For the weight, I used a nice round number of 45 kg, or 100 lbs.

Galaxies: http://www.space.com/25303-how-many-galaxies-are-in-the-universe.html

All joule knowledge:
http://sustainability.blogs.brynmawr.edu/2012/07/31/understanding-energy-part-1/

http://w11.zetaboards.com/The_Infinity_Forum/topic/10045135/1/

TL:DR: Chara is strong.
Let's say on a number line a human would be a 1.
If Chara destroyed the game/universe, not the timeline, Chara would get a 200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

If Chara destroyed the timeline, they would get a 1090000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Big boy numbers.

[lightning mcqueer]

We just science'd the heck out of this character.

[Comrade Larry]

Chara somehow kill God, Jesus, Allah, Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Girantina, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, Twilight, Papa Smurf, Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Putin, Thor, Loki, Odin, Flying Spagetti Monster, Flying Cupcake Monster, Shrek and Robbie Rotten just before she destroy universe.

[Blikk]

... what the hell.

[Spookster]

And the award to the smartest person in the community goes to ItsSuperNova. How do you feel?

[Spookster]

Origineel geplaatst door Comrade Larry:

Chara somehow kill God, Jesus, Allah, Arceus, Dialga, Palkia, Girantina, Celestia, Luna, Cadence, Twilight, Papa Smurf, Karl Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Putin, Thor, Loki, Odin, Flying Spagetti Monster, Flying Cupcake Monster, Shrek and Robbie Rotten just before she destroy universe.

She did nothing before. She was never evil until this point (remember that he/she is corrupted with 20 levels of LV) and people think that she is and always has been a merciless killer. (I'm the edgy one around here, not you [look at my name])

[DanEgbert]

Origineel geplaatst door killer968033:

And the award to the smartest person in the community goes to ItsSuperNova. How do you feel?

I feel like I looked everything up.

[Lucky Bone Head]

Determination is just power time 100000000+10

Seriously, Chara basically has infinite power, and because of that I don't think its worth talking/speculating about his power.

He's infinity strong.

[Aluminate]

Missing the point. Your numbers relate to values based on none-tested science. Well, at least I hope we haven't destroyed the Universe.

That and, time and time again (pun intended) characters have expressed fourth wall breaking and control over the game. Hence, the universe of undertale is, in it self, a game.

Font comic, Character and Serial (hint/wink) have all shown knowledge of the "game" universe, sometimes out right controlling the very universe it self.

How do you measure the power level, as you put it, of a self aware AI (it isn't, duh, but it sure is weak) unable to actually do anything other than modify/save over the game save and/or close the process?

In short, you could wipe out your version of "their universe" by simply deleting the game save. How powerful are we, the player, is the right question.

[Aluminate]

Sorry for the DB but... also... the average human, per cubic metre is more luminous than the sun. Using some form of weird as science and mathematics, you can claim we, per cubic metre, can output more light-energy than our own sun it self. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, neither, in equal parts, can function without the rest thus nulling argument. However, numbers are there.

In short, a hint to all, any form of "mathematics" can prove anything you want it too. Numbers, measurement, output and input are human percieved values. In short, a way we use to understand things around us. Is this fact? Well, a number is a number. Is the attribute to the number real? Aye

Is what anyone is actually saying realistic or true?

"Life is but a dream; within a dream" ~ Shakespeare

I won't argue philosphy but I do like this.

[DanEgbert]

Origineel geplaatst door Aluminate:

Sorry for the DB but... also... the average human, per cubic metre is more luminous than the sun. Using some form of weird as science and mathematics, you can claim we, per cubic metre, can output more light-energy than our own sun it self. It's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, neither, in equal parts, can function without the rest thus nulling argument. However, numbers are there.

In short, a hint to all, any form of "mathematics" can prove anything you want it too. Numbers, measurement, output and input are human percieved values. In short, a way we use to understand things around us. Is this fact? Well, a number is a number. Is the attribute to the number real? Aye

Is what anyone is actually saying realistic or true?

"Life is but a dream; within a dream" ~ Shakespeare

I won't argue philosphy but I do like this.

Origineel geplaatst door Aluminate:

Missing the point. Your numbers relate to values based on none-tested science. Well, at least I hope we haven't destroyed the Universe.

That and, time and time again (pun intended) characters have expressed fourth wall breaking and control over the game. Hence, the universe of undertale is, in it self, a game.

Font comic, Character and Serial (hint/wink) have all shown knowledge of the "game" universe, sometimes out right controlling the very universe it self.

How do you measure the power level, as you put it, of a self aware AI (it isn't, duh, but it sure is weak) unable to actually do anything other than modify/save over the game save and/or close the process?

In short, you could wipe out your version of "their universe" by simply deleting the game save. How powerful are we, the player, is the right question.

This was less "How strong Chara is," and more "How strong do you need to be to do what Chara did."

[Aluminate]

EDIT - Removed some posts..

Either way, I wouldn't say the numbers are right. You're missing the methodology of accomplishing the task. Techs, our methods, improve...

"1. Chara destroyed the timeline. This is much harder to calculate.
2. Chara destroyed the game/the universe. This is much more easier to calculate."

Time line can be, in Chara's scenario, down to simulated/pre-written outcomes or an anomaly of one or the other.

Game/Universe, anomaly. Simulated levels, or power needed, would be... roughly 80% of the power needed, per second, for a machine to run the simulation? Or, at least, end it, without consuming any additional energy.

EDIT:

In short, if I were in the same scenario or situation as Chara her self, I'd say the Joules required would be equal to the seconds required for the system/computer to initiate run and finalise the process/command (IE: terminal process).

Interesting scenarios either way, matey.

[Tylireous]

Origineel geplaatst door ItsSuperNova:

I will be determining just about how strong Chara is.
I will say that a regular human is a 1, so I will see what Chara will be. Towards the end, it will be a little more than a shot in the dark. Please try to read, of not there is a TLDR at the end.

First, let's look at possible outcomes.
1. Chara destroyed the timeline. This is much harder to calculate.
2. Chara destroyed the game/the universe. This is much more easier to calculate.

Okay, so an average human uses 97 joules per second, and Chara did the attack in about 5-6 seconds, rounding to 5. So in 5 seconds, a human uses 582 joules of energy. So 582 is a 1.

To destroy the a galaxy, it would take 10 ^ 61 joules. That's a 1 with 61 0's. So if you divide this number with our base value, 582, that would be 1.7 * 10^59. So if a human is a 1, only destroying a galaxy would be a 1.7 * 10^59.

There are roughly 200 billion galaxies im the universe. So you take 10^61 and multiply it by 200 billion, making 2 * 10^72. Again, if we divide it by 582, it would make 3.4 * 10^69. So again, of you were to scale, if a human was a 1 on a number line, destroying the universe would at least be a 3.4 * 10^69. This would be the calculations if Chara destroyed the game/universe. Reminder: this is measured in joules.

Next is the timeline. This is way harder to measure, because you can't destroy time. However, you can slow down time, and maybe reverse it, if you go fast enough. Using the equation that I will link in the sources, I have figured out it would take 8 * 10^18 joules to go the speed of light in 1 second. So divide by 5 (for the 5 seconds) and you get that it takes 1.6 * 10^18 joules to travel the speed of light in 5 seconds, but we need to travel faster than that. I have no idea how much faster, but faster. I'll guess 2. So I take 1.6 * 10^18 and multiply by 2 to get 3.2 * 10^18. So take that and multiply that with the universe one, 2 * 10^72, that would make 6.4 * 10^90. That's the amount of energy it takes to destroy the entire timeline. Also, for the power scaling. If a human was a 1 on the number line, this would be a 1.09 * 10^90.

This was rushed, so there might be some mathematical or science mistakes in here.

Sources:

Speed of light: https://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/Numbers/Math/Mathematical_Thinking/how_fast_is_the_speed.htm

Equation: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/calories-used-running.202986/
Note: For the weight, I used a nice round number of 45 kg, or 100 lbs.

Galaxies: http://www.space.com/25303-how-many-galaxies-are-in-the-universe.html

All joule knowledge:
http://sustainability.blogs.brynmawr.edu/2012/07/31/understanding-energy-part-1/

http://w11.zetaboards.com/The_Infinity_Forum/topic/10045135/1/

TL:DR: Chara is strong.
Let's say on a number line a human would be a 1.
If Chara destroyed the game/universe, not the timeline, Chara would get a 200000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

If Chara destroyed the timeline, they would get a 1090000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Big boy numbers.

I'm surprised people didn't get mad at you for applying math / science to a video game.
Because this sounds like something that MatPat over on Game Theory would cover.

Thanks for beating him to the punch, though

[Spookster]

Origineel geplaatst door Lucky Bone Head:

Determination is just power time 100000000+10

Seriously, Chara basically has infinite power, and because of that I don't think its worth talking/speculating about his power.

He's infinity strong.

Remember that they didn't kill anyone and had no intent on doing so ever and that we're the ones with determination.

[Spookster]

And why do we think that chara is basically godlike because of what we saw in the genocide route (that you did)

[DanEgbert]

Origineel geplaatst door killer968033:

And why do we think that chara is basically godlike because of what we saw in the genocide route (that you did)

Origineel geplaatst door killer968033:

Origineel geplaatst door Lucky Bone Head:

Determination is just power time 100000000+10

Seriously, Chara basically has infinite power, and because of that I don't think its worth talking/speculating about his power.

He's infinity strong.

Remember that they didn't kill anyone and had no intent on doing so ever and that we're the ones with determination.

Bring your nonsense Chara is good theories elsewhere. This is based on what I saw in the genocide route, not you. To me, Chara is infinitely strong because Chara took over at the very end (because they killed all Sans, Asgore, and Flowey).