The answer to whether Chara is good or evil

[Lord Egg]

What do you think.






No, litteraly, the answer to the question is what YOU want to think. Chara(and even possibly gaster) is just the blueprints for a character. You make up a backstory for them based on what you know, and it is cannon to the timeline YOU play

[screeno42]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

2. Asriel says Chara isn't a nice person.

I feel I need to correct you on this. Asriel says "they weren't the greatest person," not "they weren't a nice person."

I do however agree that Chara definitely wasn't good. My personal theory is that they were a troubled kid. They did some bad things(maybe on accident, maybe on purpose), they tried to do what they thought was right by doing the plan with Asriel. When Frisk fell, Chara saw it as a second chance, and determines what they are supposed to do by following Frisk(and the player's) lead.
If you go true pacifist, Chara helps save Asriel at the end by providing the memories you see when you try to SAVE him.
Go genocide, and Chara actually states in their monologue before the erase or do not choice that they were following your example. Someone also pointed out that while the final strike on Sans and one shot on Asgore are automatic, the first strike on Flowey doesn't actually happen until the player presses the button; and the text when Flowey is pleading for his life is actually the last chance to quit and reset without losing your soul.

[qtpyepeeka]

In my opinion, Chara wasn't bad until Asriel let himself be killed. Here's what I think happened.

Ok so something happened on the surface to make Chara hate humans, her family, or somehting like that. They go up Mount Ebott to run away but then fall in the hole. They join the Dreemur fam and start to hate humanity for what they've done. Then blah blah blah fast foreward to when Asriel dies, and Chara feels beytrayed. She now wants to get revenge because she just DIED for nothing. She now wants to kill all the monsters to make Asriel watch his kingdom be deystoyed.

[pengi10]

My view is that Chara starts out neutral but suicidally depressed and becomes whatever Frisk becomes. I'm also of the impression that Chara's willingness to kill others, not Frisk's, is what determines whether or not you get those ridiculous overkill attacks that define genocide boss battles.

If we take sans' words on how murdering others causes you to emotionally distance at face value then it is reasonable to say that psychology is a major factor in determining Hit Points ATtack, DeFense. Combine this with Chara's dialogue at the end of a Genocide run, that your Levels Of ViolencE and the power increases that come with them are actually caused by Chara, and I think it is safe to say that Chara's emotions determine your base stats. It might be less reasonable to conclude that one-shotting bosses only happens if Chara actively wants the target dead (reaching Betrayal status coul be seen as making the target so emotionally connected to Frisk that Chara's feelings become moot, thus enabling Betrayal one shots independently of Chara's emotions) but I feel like it makes a fairly reasonable explaination for why the player/Frisk can't control who does and does not die in one hit, as well as justify the leveling system as a whole.

I believe the logic of Chara turning genocidal is rather straightforward; if you shank enough mofos Chara becomes emotionally numb to murder, gradually breaking down during your slow and deliberate attempts to leave no living creature alive in the Ruins. By the time you've reached Toriel Chara is either so traumatized by this time-consuming slaughter that one of two things happens; A. Chara embraces the horror and actually wants to commit murder or B. Accepts that Frisk cannot be stopped; the best that can be done is to prevent the fight from being slow and painful as Toriel is prepared to fight to the death and unwilling to retreat

From there? You just forced, like, an eight year old child to take part in marticide right after they wake up from the nightmare of watching Asriel take the morale high ground straight to the grave and rendering Chara's heroic sacrifice pointless. You don't just make Chara watch Toriel die, mind you; the kid hears, sees, and feels of second of her turning to ash as the climax of the Murder Olympics... round one of many...

Of course, if you do literally anything except slowly hunt down and slaughter dozens of monsters you have to fight Toriel normally. If the "Chara's emotions determine your stats and, by extension, ability to murder" theory holds up then Frisk taking any action other than deliberate genocide makes Chara not want Toriel dead. Higher Lv. Chara's might be emotionally detached enough to make the fight end quickly but I don't think someone as attached to children as Toriel would be able to survive if her opponent genuinely wanted her dead.

In that scenario I argue that Chara believes peaceful resolution is at least an option, even if a high Lv. Chara can't probably can't imagine a scenario where Frisk doesnt fight to the death. Even on a No Mercy run (by which I mean "You meet it, you kill it but don't stay around for twenty minutes grinding mobs") Chara can at least justify the violence; after all, Frisk is not initiating fights so it can all be considered self defense. Granted, it could be argued that peaceful resolutions are sometimes very obvious and much easier than shanking, but to be honest Papyrus is the only one I can think of that doesn't start his fight actively trying to murder you. Everyone else gives you a Game Over, which means in every fight not against THE GREAT PAPYRUS! your opponent will commit child murder if Frisk fails to dodge; not exactly hard to say "Hey, I'm not the bad guy! If they actually wanted to get along and be my friend they wouldn't have broken my ribs before trying to talk it out!"

The point of all of this being that if you, Frisk, don't actively force Chara to hunt down and murder every living thing in the Ruins Chara does not enter the mental state of the Genocide run. No Genocide run, no obvious Chara influences beyond LOVE increasing your stats. The only time outside Genocide that you really see Chara do something is at the end of a Pacifist run when Chara uses the Power of Friendship to let an old friend know that they will never be forgotten, i.e; to do the same hippy pacifist BS that Frisk has been doing all game long.

No idea what Souless runs actually mean; I can't tell if Chara takes your body as the price for restoring the world (which you agreed to) or just decides to remind you that you killed everyone you claim to care about just because you could and shouldn't feel good about deciding to go back and mess with their lives some more.

As for my initial statement about thinking Chara is suicidally depressed before entering Frisk, the lab videos make it clear that Chara commited suicide via poison in order to give Asriel the power to cross the barrier and steal souls. This plan fails when Asriel says "Nah dog, I can't go through with murder. Peace and love 'n stuff" and then gets killed by an angry mob who make the rather reasonable assumption that the freaky goat creature dragging around a dead child is probably dangerous. Whether or not they should have listened to his explaination of what really happened is a question of ethics beyond the scope of this topic.

As for Flowey saying Chara was not nice, I'd just like to point out that Flowey is probably not a reliable source of information. I'm not even refering to Flowey lying to mess with people on this one; after I was done with my Genocide run I got the impression that Flowey simply could not imagine a world where Chara was no longer on his side. Sure, he had lost the ability to feel affection for Asgore and Toriel but he had never been given the chance to discover whether or not he could still love Chara. In his last moments alive, the last moments in which he could feel love, Chara was a living, breathing part of him; I could go on dramatically about how much trust they must have had to go through with plan "Chara commits suicide so Asriel can commit murder" but you get the point. I just find it hard to believe that Flowey could think that anyone else could "get him" in the same way Chara is, especially since they died as one united being. Dude had some emotional issues and if he had been into love and hope I think his memories would warp until he thought Chara was a pacifist who loved puppies and frolicking in meadows inbetween intense hugging sessions.

[Random crit enjoyer]

i think chara is both good and bad they destroy the world yes but frisk (because he/she is a ♥♥♥♥) killed everyone so its kinda justified but not really im not sure. They sure as hell aren't an angel like the chara pretection squad says.

[Pootis17]

Originally posted by screeno42:

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

2. Asriel says Chara isn't a nice person.

I feel I need to correct you on this. Asriel says "they weren't the greatest person," not "they weren't a nice person."

I do however agree that Chara definitely wasn't good. My personal theory is that they were a troubled kid. They did some bad things(maybe on accident, maybe on purpose), they tried to do what they thought was right by doing the plan with Asriel. When Frisk fell, Chara saw it as a second chance, and determines what they are supposed to do by following Frisk(and the player's) lead.
If you go true pacifist, Chara helps save Asriel at the end by providing the memories you see when you try to SAVE him.
Go genocide, and Chara actually states in their monologue before the erase or do not choice that they were following your example. Someone also pointed out that while the final strike on Sans and one shot on Asgore are automatic, the first strike on Flowey doesn't actually happen until the player presses the button; and the text when Flowey is pleading for his life is actually the last chance to quit and reset without losing your soul.

Finally someone get it when i heard someone say "Chara wasn't nice person" I was wtf that never happened before

[Lord Egg]

Originally posted by The Internet:

i think chara is both good and bad they destroy the world yes but frisk (because he/she is a ♥♥♥♥) killed everyone so its kinda justified but not really im not sure. They sure as hell aren't an angel like the chara pretection squad says.

Yea, I don't think they are perfect, I think their human

[katie da potato]

-Chara cant really appear until you've gained enough LV
-YOU are the one who presses fight not Chara
-Asriel calls them "Not the greatest person" but no ones perfect
-At the end of the genocide run when you refuse to erase the world you basically betray Chara because YOU are the one forcing them to kill their best friend
-If Chara is the one speaking to Frisk ((which is highly possible due to when you look at the mirror at Toriels house on the genocide run it will say "It's me, -player name-")) they only tell you how many people are left because YOU are the one who started this genocidal path and YOU are going to be the one to finish it
-In new home during the genocide route Chara will go silent while interacting with the old photo of them and their adopted family
-If Chara really DID want all the monsters to perish, why did they not kill Asriel or his family at the very beginng,huh?
-If Chara DID posses Frisk they would set the monsters free, to finish the plan they had started with Asriel
-Why would Asriel call Chara a best friend if they were a maniac?
-When Asriel and Chara baked the pie for Asgore it was an accident due to the fact that we are talking about a possible 10 year old here
-Temmie Chang ((one of undertales main artists/creators)) said on twitter or facebook that "their cool'
-When Azzy and Chara bake the pie for Asgore Chara dosn't laugh because it was intetinal ((we are talking about a possible 10 year old here)) they are laughing away the guilt and pain of poisioning their own dad
-In the true lab when we here those tapes it sounds like Chara is forcing Azzy to do it but he's actually pretty okay with it
-Chara calling themselves a demon at the end of the genocide run is refrencing the demon YOU'VE become
-When you are about to kill Flowey at the end of the genocide run there is a slight pause in between and if you close the game RIGHT then you will see it is your last chance to reset all of it
-When Chara asks for your soul ((this gose along with post pasifist endings to)) it is a coniquence for your actions of killing their family and friends
I could keep going but this is already long as hell so bai
Chara iz gud

['Merica]

Not again!!!

[Casual Amateur]

Originally posted by Kat-Kun:

Originally posted by The fabulous sans:

♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥, CHARA is killing people. he is possessing frisk and forcing him to kill people

No, the player killed everyone, as confirmed by the fact that the player is sitting at a computer controlling Frisk to kill everyone during the genocide run.
How come Chara doesn't force Frisk to kill during the pacifist run, hmm?
She outright states that she learned through your (the player's) guidance, and your guidance was killing everyone.

That also wrong about the player. First off... Player never planing to guide Chara. Player never planing to teach them in the first place. Player never know Chara is watching or Chara never told they are watching. Player never telling them what is right or wrong to do. Player almost never talk to Chara. There for Chara decided that on their own.

[Lord Egg]

this thread is old as ♥♥♥♥

[lightning mcqueer]

Originally posted by Jimbo The Immortal Janitor:

this thread is old as ♥♥♥♥

Yeah.





Wtf am I still subscribed anyway.

[Tsuchinoko]

Originally posted by dat_potatoe:

1. Chara has done some objectively awful things in the past.
2. Asriel says Chara isn't a nice person.
3. Chara takes no issue with you destroying the world, and actively encourages it.
4. Literally refers to themself as a Demon. Which I know, that could be considered tongue and cheek considering the people of the game are "monsters". However, considering their disturbing presence and gigantic creepy face as they rush at you for refusing to destroy the world they're probably the bad kind of Demon.

Chara protection squad is either deranged or mentally challenged.

Even if you don't consider Chara pure evil, they're at best a neutral person that leans toward being bad. Not the sweet little angel people seem to make them out to be.

⧫︎♒︎♓︎⬧︎

[Tsuchinoko]

Originally posted by katie da potato:

-Chara cant really appear until you've gained enough LV
-YOU are the one who presses fight not Chara
-Asriel calls them "Not the greatest person" but no ones perfect
-At the end of the genocide run when you refuse to erase the world you basically betray Chara because YOU are the one forcing them to kill their best friend
-If Chara is the one speaking to Frisk ((which is highly possible due to when you look at the mirror at Toriels house on the genocide run it will say "It's me, -player name-")) they only tell you how many people are left because YOU are the one who started this genocidal path and YOU are going to be the one to finish it
-In new home during the genocide route Chara will go silent while interacting with the old photo of them and their adopted family
-If Chara really DID want all the monsters to perish, why did they not kill Asriel or his family at the very beginng,huh?
-If Chara DID posses Frisk they would set the monsters free, to finish the plan they had started with Asriel
-Why would Asriel call Chara a best friend if they were a maniac?
-When Asriel and Chara baked the pie for Asgore it was an accident due to the fact that we are talking about a possible 10 year old here
-Temmie Chang ((one of undertales main artists/creators)) said on twitter or facebook that "their cool'
-When Azzy and Chara bake the pie for Asgore Chara dosn't laugh because it was intetinal ((we are talking about a possible 10 year old here)) they are laughing away the guilt and pain of poisioning their own dad
-In the true lab when we here those tapes it sounds like Chara is forcing Azzy to do it but he's actually pretty okay with it
-Chara calling themselves a demon at the end of the genocide run is refrencing the demon YOU'VE become
-When you are about to kill Flowey at the end of the genocide run there is a slight pause in between and if you close the game RIGHT then you will see it is your last chance to reset all of it
-When Chara asks for your soul ((this gose along with post pasifist endings to)) it is a coniquence for your actions of killing their family and friends
I could keep going but this is already long as hell so bai
Chara iz gud

👎︎□︎■︎🕯︎⧫︎ ■︎♏︎♍︎❒︎□︎ ◻︎●︎♏︎♋︎⬧︎♏︎

[Mami The Beer Baron]

Originally posted by RainbowEmz:

Q. Where The Hell Is Gaster
A. ''HES MADE UP''says someone in the comments

its hard to tell if the mysteryman.png or .jpg or .jpeg is exactly gaster.
i know people are gonna rage but i think gaster could be outside of the underground, but encased in what would be classified as a "monolith"

[katie da potato]

👎︎□︎■︎🕯︎⧫︎ ■︎♏︎♍︎❒︎□︎ ◻︎●︎♏︎♋︎⬧︎♏︎ [/quote]
🕈✌✋❄ 🕈🕆❄