Why couldn't flowey turn into asriel before?

[Quote_1207]

I get he got seven souls, but the story says that when asriel transformed with a monster and human soul, he had the power to kill a whole village. Why couldn't flowey kill frisk and absorb all the souls to become even stronger than that. Or, kill frisk and a monster.

[Dani]

He probably requires both a human soul and a monster soul to become his original form, considering he was originally a monster.
He can't absorb the soul of a normal monster because their souls can't persist long enough, so in order to absorb a monster soul, he would have to kill a goat person. The reason he didn't absorb Asgore's soul and instead destroyed it was probably to toy with the player.

[baltimoreslimey]

Either that he needs a monster soul, or there's just a giant plot hole.

[Quote_1207]

Originally posted by Kat-Kun R.I.P. Gabe -:

He probably requires both a human soul and a monster soul to become his original form, considering he was originally a monster.
He can't absorb the soul of a normal monster because their souls can't persist long enough, so in order to absorb a monster soul, he would have to kill a goat person. The reason he didn't absorb Asgore's soul and instead destroyed it was probably to toy with the player.

1. Flowey screwed up that opportunity. 2. New theory, take frisks soul, and kill toriel, I kinda left out the boss monster thing.

[JustAcceptIt-V1™]

Well Asriel has a unique Soul

[Quote_1207]

Originally posted by JustAcceptIt™:

Well Asriel has a unique Soul

how so?

[major_internaut]

*Flowey needs the human AND
monster SOUL's to turn into Asriel
*Also, in Neutral route he only takes
the human SOUL's and turn itself into
Omega/Photoshop Flowey
*I hope and dream that helped

[Mnooper]

Originally posted by Sansy boy:

I get he got seven souls, but the story says that when asriel transformed with a monster and human soul, he had the power to kill a whole village. Why couldn't flowey kill frisk and absorb all the souls to become even stronger than that. Or, kill frisk and a monster.

he didnt kill the whole village tho, he spared them. then he died, gaster/alphys gave him some determination then he turned into flowey. both of their souls shattered. a better question is
why didn't chara use their determination to come back to life once the plan failed?

[Quote_1207]

Originally posted by cakeandcookies5:

Originally posted by Sansy boy:

I get he got seven souls, but the story says that when asriel transformed with a monster and human soul, he had the power to kill a whole village. Why couldn't flowey kill frisk and absorb all the souls to become even stronger than that. Or, kill frisk and a monster.

he didnt kill the whole village tho, he spared them. then he died, gaster/alphys gave him some determination then he turned into flowey. both of their souls shattered. a better question is
why didn't chara use their determination to come back to life once the plan failed?

i didnt say he killed the village, i said the story said he had the POWER to.

[Strider VM]

I'll try to tackle your question thru multiple perspectives because I couldn't really understand your question.....

Well, first I thought that Flowey on that time wasn't really interested in getting out of the underground, he was more interested in having a new, not predictable friend to play around with. Which Frisk qualifies. Letting Frisk die means his new toy will be gone forever.

When unique/king monsters die, they still have a soul that lingers, but it does not last long as seen with Toriel when she is killed. This means when Asriel died, he lost his soul along with Chara. This means the Flowey that first met Frisk does not have a soul and is only running on determination. Which means no godly powers.

Killing Frisk + a monster seems to be pointless, as it was shown in books/text in the game that a single human soul is equivalent to a great number of monsters. So the power increase from a human soul VS a human soul + single monster soul seems to be insignificant.

Then in the end of the game. Flowey has six souls, and in order to become Asriel again, he used nearly all the monster souls in the underground so become a substitute seventh soul.

[Quote_1207]

Originally posted by ストライダー VM:

I'll try to tackle your question thru multiple perspectives because I couldn't really understand your question.....

Well, first I thought that Flowey on that time wasn't really interested in getting out of the underground, he was more interested in having a new, not predictable friend to play around with. Which Frisk qualifies. Letting Frisk die means his new toy will be gone forever.

When unique/king monsters die, they still have a soul that lingers, but it does not last long as seen with Toriel when she is killed. This means when Asriel died, he lost his soul along with Chara. This means the Flowey that first met Frisk does not have a soul and is only running on determination. Which means no godly powers.

Killing Frisk + a monster seems to be pointless, as it was shown in books/text in the game that a single human soul is equivalent to a great number of monsters. So the power increase from a human soul VS a human soul + single monster soul seems to be insignificant.

Then in the end of the game. Flowey has six souls, and in order to become Asriel again, he used nearly all the monster souls in the underground so become a substitute seventh soul.

ah, forgot that flowey had six human souls at the time that he absorbed the souls... but yea that makes sense. cuz flowey doesn't want to kill anyone. he merely wants to keep the game going. but we can all agree flowey is homocidal either way.

[Chara Dreemurr]

I actually just thought of this why doesn't flowey just kill a monster and then steal one of the human souls to go back to his original form and then go to asgore as asriel and say that he had to take a human soul to go back to normal?

[UndeadKingUK]

Asriel and Flowey being the same person doesn't sit well with me. I think they're two different people, despite the fact it was explained in the game. I just don't think they are the same person, I think Flowey is a shape shifter that is imitating Asriel because he may have known him. That's how I think of it.

[Susen]

Originally posted by Mnooper:

why didn't chara use their determination to come back to life once the plan failed?

maybe cuz her fused soul shattered when asriel died <_<

[Talon]

Originally posted by Quote_1207:

Originally posted by Kat-Kun R.I.P. Gabe -:

He probably requires both a human soul and a monster soul to become his original form, considering he was originally a monster.
He can't absorb the soul of a normal monster because their souls can't persist long enough, so in order to absorb a monster soul, he would have to kill a goat person. The reason he didn't absorb Asgore's soul and instead destroyed it was probably to toy with the player.

1. Flowey screwed up that opportunity. 2. New theory, take frisks soul, and kill toriel, I kinda left out the boss monster thing.

It's not unlikely that Flowey, to an extent, still has some form of attachment to his mother and father and that's why he (as far as we know) never tried taking either of their souls. Although, he still destroys Asgore's soul when he gets killed but, as stated, that was to toy with Frisk more than anything.

It's also likely that his Determination could have eventually destroyed a pure boss monster soul or otherwise become like an Amalgamate, which wouldn't be surprising if he was aware of their existence at all. Which is likely why he mainly wanted a human soul and why he immediately tries to kill Frisk on their first encounter.

So, his initial plan before finding out that Frisk's Determination overrides his own could have been to kill Frisk, get their soul, kill Toriel, grab her soul, and then go steal the rest of the human souls from Asgore.

(Reading back on who I responded to, I think I might have misclicked on who I wanted to respond to. My apologies.)